Best affordable 9mm carbine? Uzi? CX4 Storm?

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hartzpad

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I'm considering selling/trading my VEPR K in 5.45x39 to buy a 9mm carbine so I can shoot it indoors at the local range on bad weather days. Would be a lot of fun for the interactive steel plate range.

So I know there is the Beretta CX4 Storm ($500-$600), Vector Uzi's ($595), Hi-point (no way), various MP5 clones ($1000-$1200), Mac-10 clones. So, in the market of $1000 and under, does that only leave the CX4 storm and the Uzi? I've handled a Storm and liked the ergonomics, but I haven't even seen an Uzi in person (I hear they are very heavy). Which would serve better for both the "cool factor" and being practical and accurate range shooters? What 9mm carbines do you guys have? Does the Beretta Storm come with hi-cap mags yet? Which style of magazine has cheaper hi-caps available (the Beretta 92f mags or the other?) Does the Uzi have decent sights and is it practical for range use?

Beretta CX4 Storm
storm.gif


UZI)_Semi_Foldingstock22.gif


Ohio Rapid Fire MP5 clone ($1500, too much money)
94FWS.jpg
 
Also, don't Uzi's have caliber conversion kits available? A 9mm Uzi that can also shoot .22lr or .45acp would be cool.
 
The Uzi is an older design so you won't get the light/mount rails on it and I'm not sure anyone is making them for it yet.
Also, I'm not sure the situation with the folding stock and barrel on the Uzi, might not be allowed which probably makes the gun longer overall than the Storm.
I really like them all. Would probably go with a Hk 94 if all other things were equal.
However, in the end I think for the price and the extras the Storm may be the way to go. It's on my buy list. Beretta has been around a long time and will be in the future. Never sure about the other guys putting stuff together now.
I want it for a home gun and the light mounts are a bill selling point for me. I already have the Micro-Uzi but I can't see getting the full sized one since I can't have the short barrel on it.
For the mags. The Storm has tons of 15rd 92F mags that will feed it. Beretta also makes 20rd'ers but they are still a little hard to find. Uzi mags are readily available and they are pretty cheap. Think the mags for the 94 may be the harder/more expensive to get. Of course there are tons of after market mags out there but I avoid them the best I can.

I'll go with the Beretta in the end. New gun, modern design from known maker, also cheaper than good versions of the others.
 
Semi-auto Uzi's IMHO aren't that pleasant to target shoot at a range for an extended time. Bad ergonomics for me anyway.

Now shooting from the hip full auto rentals are a gas.

Find a used Marlin Camp 9.
 
Yes, you can get the conversions for the Uzi's which is nice. Only downside is the .45 mags come in 10rd and 16rd versions though. I haven't found any larger than that for it.

I would not rule out the Marlin either! Very fast gun! PC looking also. I have shot a few over the years and they are a nice gun.
 
Used Marlin Camp Carbines can still be found in 9mm (S&W mags) or .45ACP (1911 mags)....
Click to expand...

Yup! Super fun, accurate and reliable. The 9mms use the same mags as S&W 59xx/69xx series guns, so they are plentiful and reasonably priced. I have a Camp 45, which as mentioned, eats from M1911 mags.

Choate Machine & Tool sells a black plastic folding stock for the Marlin Camp Carbines, so you can spiff it up if you want.
 
Of the ones mentioned...

I'd skip the Uzi if you want it strictly for target shooting. I have an original Uzi and while fun to shoot, the grip safety makes the hand sore after prolonged shooting and IMO, the way the stock is angled downward instead of straight back, makes the gun hard to hold on target in rapid fire or full auto.

If you can get a real MP5 (full auto) or an original HK-94, I'd say go for it. They are fun, easy to shoot, accurate and totally reliable. However, the reports on the made in US clones are not very good.

As for 9mm versions of M10/M11s, don't waste your time unless you are getting the full auto version.
 
Of all the ones mentioned, all of which, so far, I've owned. The one I like best currently is the Keltec. Mine is set up for Glock 17 magazines so I have a briefcase with the Keltec, a Glock 17, a bunch of magazines, including some G33 mags and some ammo... all in a nice looking attache case! :what: :D

The accuracy is spectacular and exceeded only by the exceedingly heavy Uzi. My Uzi, with folding stock, also EATS the side of my face away as I shoot it... but it shoots as accurately as any rifle I have!

The Keltec shoots about 2 MOA for me with the best three ammo choices. One of those is WWB which is very nice and another is WWB 147 gr HP both from Walmart and both very cheap in the 100 round boxes! I have had no failures with the Keltec, except with a couple of "open wide" hollow points - which of course is predictable. It shoots Speer GDHP 124 the best by far and some 33 round, carefully rested and gently triggered groups, were at 1.5 moa!!!!!!!!!! WOW!

Take a look! http://www.kel-tec.com/prod03.htm
 
I have the marlin 45 and a KT 9mm carbine..

Go with a KT S2K...Hi cap mags are easily available and mine has been 100% through 800-1K rounds...
 
I've only shot an Uzi and a semi MP5 clone.

I'd throw out the semi-auto Uzi, as a few others have said. Open bolt guns are just weird when only fired full auto - you get a noticable amount of lag before the gun fires, the ergonomics aren't great for extended range session, and the 16" barrel looks funky. It's also kind of heavy, but that is more of a pro than a con for a semi auto pistol carbine in my opinion. (Not speaking from a "tactical" standpoint, speaking from just a range time standpoint.) Lower recoil, feels more like a full rifle to me.

Ergos are great on the MP5, but - like you said - very pricey. I agree with you that $1500 is too much for a semi auto 9. Great gun if money weren't a factor and you could SBR it.
 
i'd go with the keltec. i have a 40 [glock mags] and i lopve it it rides in a briefcase with a couple of extended mag when i am working. nice gun and tuns of tinkering-mods you can do to it. and you can't beat the price.
pat
 
I have heard good things about the hi-point carbine.
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Me too...multiple times. I always hear good things about the carbine and horrible things about the pistols.

brad cook
 
you want the storm... now don't let these guys talk you out of it... you want the storm...

Nobody tells me what to do... Not even myself!!! :what:
 
Ok, I've been wanting a 9mm carbine for a while and I recently went through all of the same ideas and here is what I've found by alittle research....

1.) ORF Mp5 clone - great ergonomics, looks very cool, well made, good accuracy, and probably the most expensive 9mm carbine around at ~ $1500.

2.) Vector Uzi carbine - poor ergonmics, looks cool, well made, reliable, relatively afforadable ~ $650, so-so accuracy (sights will be the biggest limitation), and cheap mags

3.) Beretta Storm - good ergonomics, looks OK, good quality, afforadable ~ $500, good accuracy, and a great compainion to the 92

4.) Ruger PC9 - good ergonomics, traditional look, great quality, afforadable ~ $500, descent accuracy, limited to 10 rounds, and a great companion to the Ruger pistols

5.) Marlin camp 9 - good ergonomics, traditional look, OK quality (my dad's broke) descent accuracy, hard to find ~ $450 used, and takes S&W mags

6.) Kel-Tec Sub 2000 - wierd ergonomics, folds in half, descent quality, very afforadable ~ $300, the best pistol companion, and probably the most accurate.

7.) Hi point 955 - descent ergonomics, OK quality, very afforadable ~ $150, pretty accurate, limited to 10 rounds, and they are supposed to work so how can you bash them?

Soooo, it basically boils down to whats most important to you. If you have a lets say $700 budget than this is what your looking at

Looks - UZI
Quality - Ruger
Best comprimise between Looks and Quality - Beretta Storm
Versatility - Sub 2000
Price - Hi Point

I personally chose the Kel-Tec (still waiting for mine to come in :cuss: ) because I personally don't see why a blowback 9mm carbine should cost $500+ and why the reciever bieng made cheaply out of polymer would ever be a problem. Hell, they make cars out practically out of plastic these days! Plus it will make the ultimate companion to my Glock 19, but just my 2 cents.

P.S. I hear that the Storm has a plastic hammer :what: , I dunno that seems like thats pushing the capabilities of plastic.
 
I would bet money someone is going to make +10 round mag for the High Point, now that the ban is lifted....
Ruger handgun mags work in PC9, don't they?
 
Have experience with the PC9 and Keltec Sub2000 both of which I own. And a Marlin I used to own. My Marlin also broke the stock. Supposedly some different recoil springs from Wolf can remedy that.

Still the Marlin isn't as good in my opinion as the other two.

PC9 can take a traditional scope, maybe the ticket in this case. PC9 gives the impression of being heavy duty in build. It was designed for use by police in their cruiser. So the robustness should be no surprise. Only later did Ruger decide to sell it to civilians. I wish the magazine weren't sticking out front. And yes it uses Ruger pistol mags. Which can be had in at least 15 rounders. Rock solid in 2500 rounds of use.

Keltec does have weird ergo design. Seems flimsy, other than it has given me no trouble at all. Rock solid in 2000 rounds of use. So one of those things where you think it might be trouble, but it just never is. Doesn't take a scope right out of the box. Though Keltec owners have worked around this several ways.

And the Keltec also in my experience is the most accurate.
And this applies two ways. First shooting of a benchrest it is more accurate than the Ruger. And shooting offhand, despite what seem like unusual ergonomics, I find I shoot it more accurately than the Ruger offhand. And the thing is just 'neat'. Since it is significantly cheaper that would be my choice. If I hadn't already owned the Ruger, I probably wouldn't have purchased it. Which isn't to say I don't like the PC9. Were that true I would sell it. The Keltec is just more bang for the buck.

Now the Storm is interesting. I have handled one. And am not sure if buying my first carbine whether I would choose it over the Keltec. And if it simply is what you want, I don't see enough reason to say you shouldn't get it. Otherwise, you still will want it anyway. So scratch that itch and go with the Storm.
 
I have the Marlin carbine in 45acp and really get a kick out of it (metaphorically). However, the design is weak and you can't easily modify the weapon as no aftermarket parts exist. You can still get parts from Marlin to repair the weapon, but I consider it as much a curiosity piece as I do a shooter. Also, the mag release and slide-lock controls are miniscule and hard to operate fast: this is not a high-speed defensive weapon.

I have heard that the Sub2K set up for the Sig 226 magazines will function flawlessly with CZ75 magazines. If anyone can confirm this, please do as I have a CZ 75B and would love to have a companion for her - factory 25-round magazines (www.midwesttactical.com) would really amp this weapon's ability to act in a defensive capacity.
 
Hi point 955 - descent ergonomics, OK quality, very afforadable ~ $150, pretty accurate, limited to 10 rounds,
Click to expand...

That CAN'T be true because one of those Columbine demons was using a Hi-Point carbine and it must have had like a million round magazine. That Feinstein critter told me so.

brad cook
 
I picked up one of the High-point carbines on the way to a shooting outing a while back and its been a lot of fun. I actually cant ever remember it jamming. It's always been accurate enough to do what I ask it to, out to reasonable ranges. Sure is hideous, but it's accurate and reliable. I've considered making it my apartment gun (but my 870 w/ surefire makes for a better argument).

That said, if you're not on a budget, I'd stick to either the CX4, the Ruger, or the Kel-tec. Probably in that order too. The CX4 is well thought out from the ground up, and would do great as a house gun. The Ruger is good too, but looks like more of an American fun/truck gun. Which might be to its credit. Kel-tec is a folder, which is a pretty wicked ability.

Let us know what you pick!

-Spooky
 
The Ruger PC9 takes the same mags as the Ruger P-8x 9mm pistols. Ruger will sell 15 round mags for them (it's just the Mini-14 and -30 mags they are being jerks about) or you can get 15 and 20 round Mec-Gars.

Marlin Camp 9s should run $300 or less. The Camp 45s are more expensive, up to $450, because they aren't as common. I have seen several Camp 9s in my area since becoming interested in them back in the Spring.
 
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