Best All Around Defense Hand Gun

[Oro]

Funny comments aside, let's try to address what the OP asked, setting the "gang of thugs needing an AR or AK" aside as posting exuberance.

1) Just like Fight Club, gun fighting has a rule. The first rule of Gun Fighting is: First, Have a Gun.

A gun that is too large to be carried conveniently everywhere you go is right out. When the time comes, you may be caught without it if it is too large to carry easily and conveniently everywhere you go.

Talk to many posters. The only guns that fit this rule, winter and summer, tend to be things like the Kel Tec P11, PPK type guns, S&W 19/66 snubs, and S&W J frames. There are others.

2) The average gun fight, according to the FBI, is resolved with 2 rounds (2.3 rounds for revolver users, 2.6 for auto users). If you carry a six round revolver, or small capcity auto, that means you can usually presume you can get in a firefight at dinner-time, talk to the cops, drive home and and stop for eggs and milk and yet get into another gunfight at the 7-11, all without ever reloading the gun, revolver or auto.

3) Carry the gun that you are willing to carry all the time. Learn to use it and place rounds on target, even under stress.

Skip caliber wars, skip revolver vs. auto wars, skip any war and carry what you can comfortably at all times and can master.

And at all times remember the First Rule of Gunfighting. If you decid to carry a glock 17, Colt 1911, etc., and find sometimes you leave it at home because it's not convenient to tote in the summer to the deli, the golf range, the mall, etc., you've just lost.

Remember the first rule of Gun Fighting.

 

[mavracer]

since we're in fantasy mode,I want a STI 2011 eagle 5.0 in 38 super with 140mm hicap mags and fill it with corbon 125+p DPX.

 

[willbrink]

"Best gun" for me is not the best gun for you, thus the answer is of no value to you. I would choose what I carry, and carry it because it's been the choice of high level combat shooters for almost 100 years: 1911.

 

[jbauch357]

The M&P line of handguns. I got rid of my Glock 17 and rarely take my pore Springfield 1911 Loaded out of the closet since I got my M&P 9 and M&P 40.

Yes they are really that good.

Funny that you say that, I purchased a new M&P .40 and sold the thing in less than two weeks I hated it so much... Picked up a G35 to replace it and couldn't be happier...

It all comes back to shoot what you are comfortable and accurate with - it's not going to be the same for everybody.

 

[Brian Dale]

Funny comments aside, let's try to address what the OP asked...

I did. Several others have, as well.

Talk to many posters.

Talk all you want. You've still got to try the gun for yourself.

I can no more choose the best gun for you than I can buy you the right pair of shoes.

I didn't write, "use the search function" in my post above, because that looks like a dismissal of the OP. I'll suggest it now because there is a tremendous amount of stored wisdom in the threads that have addressed this very question in the past.

Have you visited the Cornered Cat yet? Wisdom isn't a "Girls Only" pursuit.

Skip caliber wars, skip revolver vs. auto wars, skip any war and carry what you can [carry] comfortably at all times and can master.

Solid advice.
.

 

[michiganfan]

Glock

 

[David E]

Sigs are difficult to shoot well, due to their long, heavy initial trigger pull. Your first shot may be your ONLY shot, so make it a good one.

Any gun that hinders making a good first shot is a good gun for recreation only.

A Glock 17, S&W M&P, XD or XD-m, all in 9mm would be better choices for most folks, and they're cheaper!

.

 

[David E]

2) The average gun fight, according to the FBI, is resolved with 2 rounds (2.3 rounds for revolver users, 2.6 for auto users). If you carry a six round revolver, or small capcity auto, that means you can usually presume you can get in a firefight at dinner-time, talk to the cops, drive home and and stop for eggs and milk and yet get into another gunfight at the 7-11, all without ever reloading the gun, revolver or auto.

Where, specifically, do you get this information?

The 2.3/2.6 rds has been around forever.....back when they included SUICIDES, WARNING SHOTS, ACCIDENTAL DISCHARGES, ANIMAL PUT-DOWNS, etc in that number.

Clearly, that skews the total.

Doing a quick search, I found where, in NYC at least, the average shots fired is EIGHT. This stat dates back to 2000, but I suspect it hasn't decreased any.

http://www.theppsc.org/Grossman/Farnam/NYPD.htm

If you have a link to something more recent that does not include the non-confrontational shots fired, I'd love to see it.

.

 

[kashton]

hhhmmmm.... if anyone says other than a semi-auto 12 gauge shotgun they aren't right in the head

 

[Oro]

Brian Dale: Didn't mean to say that you had made irreverent posts, just some before me; not everyone!

David E: The sub-3 round encounter level is borne out by lots of sources. Recent LE experience is cited below in the sub-3 round realm.

I agree with you the 2.3/2.6 data has been picked apart and criticized. It's also been shown to be a bad data set. I have never, either, been able to find the data sets of those who claim N/D's and suicides skewed the data. Also, the recent "upping" of per-incident data to 8 is indeed accepted for NYC, but I have not been able to get real data to prove that, just quotes. However, I would concede that post 2000 that may be correct for the NYPD. A key element of what Farnham said is that officers just emptied there handguns without discretion - apparently regardless of need or evaluating the threat.

That said: quotes lie, but data speaks. The other reason I'm not found of recent NYC data is NYC is also the home of "41 shots" Amadou Diallo and a lot of very trigger happy cops. I'm an ex-New Yorker, and I love the place, but I would never hold up studies of NYC pistol craft as examples of what is normal, rational, or a sample of the national average. When data sets include instances of four cops emptying high-cap magazines into an unarmed perp, I discount the data set as representative. This would also agree with the behavior of NYC cops in Farnhams analysis - the gun was emptied; the effectiveness was never judged. Compared to what other large city PD's do, NY seems to be an anomaly.

Another, better sample is what DC officers do. Skip down in the link below to page six, and you can see four recent years of DC officer-involved shootings. The average over four years, EXCLUDING suicides and N/D's, is 2.8, close to the long term averages of the mid 2's. It is broken down by outcome, and species (human vs. other animals - which doesn't change the average much at all).

I especially like quoting the DC data, as no one is eager to sit and praise the DC department as either restrained, the top of the training pyramid, or in a non-violent jurisdiction. Thus I find it nice to quote as a back-up data.

Even with what I feel is the errant NYC data in the debate forum, I still feel very comfortable I can end two "average" civilian firearms discharge encounters w/o reloading with a revolver. And according to Keck, many more incidents ( I believe he estimated 2:1) are resolved w/o firing (a.k.a., displaying or "brandishing") than with firing.

 

[Cactus Jack Arizona]

Although I am an avid CZ 9mm man myself, I agree with Isher. Gun brands are like car brands. Everyone has an opinion; some will agree, others will not. I can only suggest that you go look at all the different brands. Buy the gun that fits your hand the best, be it a pistol or revolver.

The problem with this scenario is that when you discuss a group of thugs coming against you, there are many issues that can arise. The most important issue is: Even though you might be armed, you must also assume that they out gun you. A nice jet pack might be the best choice.....in other words, run. No point in playing the hero if you're lying on the ground waiting for the coroner to arrive.

 

[zammyman]

A 5" Kimber/Wesson 1911... when the second one drops they'll scatter .

 

[357sigRog]

In my opinion, for me it is a Glock without a doubt.

 

[doberman]

Group of thugs?

I'm thinking a good set of running shoes and 911 on speed dial!

 

[DawgFvr]

A Glock...any Glock...any size...any caliber.

 

[The Foo]

Glock 17 with Federal HST +P HP is my daily carry.

 

[4Freedom]

I am leaning toward Glock 45 as it looks compact for its caliber and a decent price, but I should try it at the range first. Still, have to take a training class before they let me touch any of their guns.. LOL... Also, perhaps I can carry a litte 32 caliber gun on my leg as a spare.

One thing I have to say, is I do go out into the countryside some time and risk being attacked by animals. I have had run-ins with black bears and cougars and I would need a gun large enough to take out a cougar. So, I think a .45 would probably be a necessity, since I don't have money to buy two big guns.

What do people think about Glock 45? The other 45's, like the 1911 are bit heftier or bigger in size. Whats the difference between .45, .45ACP and .45GAP, etc etc? Should I go with .45 instead of .45 ACP?

 

[jbauch357]

A couple things to keep in mind...

When you're talking GLOCK pistols it helps to call out the specific model, this will let people know the frame size and round it's chambered in - full model listing can be found here. The reason I mention this is because you've called out a GLOCK 45 (meaning one of the models chambered in .45) multiple times, but there isn't a model 45 GLOCK - the .45 auto GLOCK models are G21, G30 and G36. I'm not trying to be nit picky, but it'll greatly help reduce confusion and produce good feedback if we're all on the level for which model we're talking about.

If you're needing protection from tough skinned, thick muscled wild animals you'll need a round with good penetration - which .45 isn't necessarily renowned for. .45 is a great round for two-legged predators, and packs a punch - but may not drive deep enough to hit vitals on larger/tougher animals.

I'm not going to turn this into a caliber war, but you can find good info comparing the penetration and wound channels of various calibers/loads here and here.

FWIW I carry a G26 with hot loaded 115gr Speer Gold Dots in the city, and a Ruger GP100 .357 mag with 200gr hard-cast bullets when in the woods. The former gives me 11-shot capacity along with a fast round that will immediately expand and not over penetrate smaller targets. The latter gives me 6 rounds that are guaranteed to drive deep to the vitals of pretty much any animal I'll come across in these parts.

 

[punkndisorderly]

After years of carrying a Springfield 1911 Compact, I switched recently to the Glock 26 for my carry gun. No complaints at all. 100% reliable so far at a few thousand rounds. For whatever reason, I seem to shoot it better than the 1911 and it's not tempermental with what hollowpoiints I load.

The main thing to decide before you go with a Glock (or any other pistol) is to try it out to make sure it will fit your hand and that you can shoot it well. The .45 Glocks are a bit on the thick side in the grip. Some people have problems with it, some don't.

If you're leaning towards the Glock, I recommend trying out the Glock, S&W M&P, and Springfield XD's side by side and see which feels best to you. All three have similar price points and features. The main difference is the adjustable grips on the Smith and Springfields.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

the glocks or S&W .40s.

.40 S&W is a caliber, while glock is a brand of gun. There are glocks made in the caliber .40 S&W.

 

[atrain08]

I bought a sig p229 .40 on Saturday and I really like it. I'm use to Taurus and Springfields, and in comparison the quality of the Sig is very nice. The only thing I that I'm not crazy about is that I have to move my grip a little to reach the decocker, Magazine release and slide release is perfect for me. I have not had a chance to shoot it yet so I can't comment on how it shoots. Probably shoot it this weekend.

 

[oneounceload]

If it has to be a pistol, then a MP-5 or one of the 223 pistols with a 30 round magazine should suffice

 

[4Freedom]

Sorry, I did not mean Glock 45 (as in the model), I meant Glock .45 caliber. I am not good with guns and I did not remember the model numbers I was seeing.

I always thought the .45 being a very powerful caliber would be the choice against large animals. I guess I am wrong. I suppose a pistol that can shoot an expanding bullet would be the most important weapon against a large predator with mass amounts of body armor. I always thought a .45 gun put a very big hole in the target. Isn't a .357 a smaller caliber than a .45? Do they make .45 caliber bullets used for hunting game like?

Is G26 a .45 caliber gun?

I am still wondering what the best city and forest gun to purchase would be. Also, I want to have a backup piece in case the first gun jams, in either situation. But the backup piece I would think would need to be less expensive.

Not many stores I have seen I think will let me feel their pistol. Maybe its a State Law thing. I felt a bit too embarrased or afraid to ask them. As for shooting range, they want me to take some class and I am bit busy, but will try soon. Also, they don't really have the hugest selection of guns at the shooting range; so as far as trying the gun, I don't know how realistic it will be to try each of them.

 

[rich636]

Am I the only one who wants to scream if they see the acronym "SHTF" again. I'm saying that as someone who loves to be as prepared as the next guy....but geez. If you wanna protect yourself get an 870 or something. If you want to survive prolonged unrest then that's a whole different story and not nearly as sexy as blasting zombies with an M4.

4freedom, get some introductory books on firearms. "Cartridges of the World" is a great buy and will teach you a lot. That would be time better spent then worrying about getting attack by a mob.

 

[MarcusWendt]

S&W M&Pc in your caliber of choice.