Best blackpowder substitute for a tradiational muzzleloader.

[Jackrabbit1957]

Never had that problem either unless the hole in the nipple was partially plugged.

 

[alsaqr]

I don't get that with Pyrodex.

Neither do i.

 

[Rickt300]

I got a good deal on some Shooters World Multi purpose Black. Have to say it makes accurate loads, never hangfires and gives good enough velocity. The best part is how easy it is to clean, amazing. Use Orange windshield wiper fluid and don't look back.

 

[alsaqr]

Yes, Shooters World Multi-Purpose Black is great powder. It's made by APP.

 

[SomebodyMakeRiderRepro]

Sorry, for off topic but does anyone know if there are / have been smokeless black powder substitutes and if not, why not?

My understanding is that the thick white smoke in some substitutes is from extra additives and without them, the propellant itself could work just as well with much less smoke.

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

...My understanding is that the thick white smoke in some substitutes is from extra additives and without them, the propellant itself could work just as well with much less smoke.

subs are made to be sort of the same volume as real black powder so it can be measured in the same volume measure as real black powder and be safe

 

[Jim Watson]

Early on it was said that Pyrodex was formulated for enough smoke and fouling to be accepted by NMLRA.
It remains the only fake accepted by NRA for BPCR.

 

[jjmonth61]

Bought at TC PA Hunter 20 years ago, but still consider myself a newbie so YMMV.

I really like 3F swiss in my 50 cal. flintlock. Goex 2F burned dirty and their 3F is only a bit better.

Their usually is a minimum 5lb purchase from some places (I bought online through Buffalo Arms), but it's worth the extra money.

 

[woodnbow]

Early on it was said that Pyrodex was formulated for enough smoke and fouling to be accepted by NMLRA.
It remains the only fake accepted by NRA for BPCR.

I don’t know… That’s always sounded like a hokey statement to me… because Pyrodex and T7 burn carbon as a source of energy (just like the Holy Black) they have to produce smoke and about half of the original weight of the product is left behind as fouling. I know plenty of shooters who’d forgo all of the smoke and fouling if they could.

 

[hawg]

Early on it was said that Pyrodex was formulated for enough smoke and fouling to be accepted by NMLRA.
It remains the only fake accepted by NRA for BPCR.

I dunno where you heard that. Pyrodex is only a little potassium perchlorate away from being real black powder.

 

[Jim Watson]

Apparently that was then because NMLRA and NRA now permit any fake that ships as a "substitute."

N-SSA and International hold the line on black.

In the day, King's Semismokeless and Lesmok were highly regarded and hung on in .22 LR target ammo for a good while.

 

[Onty]

If you are willing to forego actual Black Powder and you want reliable ignition of subs, get an inline that uses 209 primers and has a closed breach.
My advice would be to make the effort to source the real thing and order Real Black Powder online if nothing else.

I tried Any interest for smokeless powder cylinder with 209 primers for Ruger Old Army? https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...mers-for-ruger-old-army.873826/#post-11618395 . We needed at least 50 commitments, but, unfortunately, no sufficient interest.

Also, something similar could be made for black powder, with straight chamber. And if Ruger Old Army could take conversion cylinder for 45 Colt, I don't see any reason why such cylinder with 209 primer wouldn't take 250-255 grains conical bullet with at least 35 grains of FFFG black powder, or equivalent substitute.

 

[MA2NavyVeteran]

You may be able to go in with a few friends and make a group purchase of the real stuff. It not only makes it much more affordable, but you can usually split the case into various types & grades as well, allowing you to grab say a four (or five) 1lb can mix of (two FF Goex, one FFF Goex, one 2F Old Eynsford, and one 3F Old Eynsford) or other combination purchase. Splitting the purchase of a 25lb case goes a long way to breaking up that hazmat fee because it's the same hazmat fee for purchasing a few cans as purchasing a whole 25lb case.

For inspiration...

 

[Jim Watson]

Any interest for smokeless powder cylinder with 209 primers for Ruger Old Army?

No, I would just get a Blackhawk.

Westlake Engineering, and maybe others in England, produce battery cup primer fired, loose smokeless, wadcutter revolvers in a repressive kingdom that does not allow its subjects to possess breechloading handguns.
http://www.westlakeengineering.com

 

[Bfh_auto]

If your sub doesn't ignite. It's your nipple. Even just a better quality #11 nipple works. I can't remember the brand I buy. It's hotshot or fire something.
I have switched to musket caps on one.
777 is my choice. It's been reliable for me. Treat it like black with 15% less by volume. Or enjoy the added velocity.

 

[Onty]

No, I would just get a Blackhawk.

If someone wants to shoot C&B revolver indoor, during long and cold winters, in many ranges black powder and smoky substitutes are NO-NO. Also, as far as i know, in number of countries in Europe C&B firearms could be purchased without purchasing permit. This is important for many because if they want to purchase centerfire firearm, especially handguns, that document is needed for every single centerfire gun. On top of that, selection of black powders is frequently limited, substitute powders also, however, smokeless is usually available.

Westlake Engineering, and maybe others in England, produce battery cup primer fired, loose smokeless, wadcutter revolvers in a repressive kingdom that does not allow its subjects to possess breechloading handguns.
http://www.westlakeengineering.com

Any time you take your firearm in your hands, say a Prayer of Gratitude and finish with "God bless USA, Constitution and Second Amendment"!

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! Hopefully, see you again in 3 weeks.

 

[woodnbow]

Merry Christmas @Onty! thanks for all of your input here, see you next year!

 

[doubleh]

doubleh stated: Blackpowder is like hen's teeth in this area and has been for a long time. I just switched to pyrodex and have never had a problem with rifle or pistol. When my son bought a flintlock we tried it with pyrodex RS and used some 4f goex in the pan to ignite the pyrodex and had no trouble. I have no idea what he will do when that can of 4f is gone.

doubleh, have you tried Coonie's over in Hobbs (east of Carlsbad)? I don't know how far it is from you but their phone number is (575)393-0166. I stopped in there many years ago. Nice folks and they have an interesting museum in the back. If not too far, give them a call and see if they can fix you up.

I just came back to this and in answer to your question: When BP disappeared from store shelves I did some searching and found Coonie's. Yes, they would sell me BP---by the case. I had no need for a case at that time. I just did an internet search for them and they are shown to be in Ruidoso but with a Hobbs phone number and another search showed them to be in Hobbs but with no location on the map so they may or may not still be in business. I have gotten along fine with Pyrodex all these years and really haven't found anything different between it and real black. It always fires, same cloud of smoke, same accuracy, same clean up, so I am happy with it.

 

[hawg]

Even just a better quality #11 nipple works. I can't remember the brand I buy. It's hotshot or fire something.
I have switched to musket caps on one.

Stock nipples work for me. I put a Hotshot on an Inverstarms Hawken once but it only lasted 10 years. I put the stock nipple back in.

 

[The old gunsmith]

So I have enough Goex FFg for another ~12 shots and then I will be completely out of black powder. More than enough to get me through the last weekend of muzzleloader season this year unless the Armdillos mount a revenge raid.

My muzzleloader of choice is an old Thompson-Center Big-Boar 58-cal using traditional #11 caps for ignition. I am contemplating ordering some real black powder (Graf and Sons has Schuetzen 2F in stock) but most places have a fairly larger minimum (ie Grafs and Sons wants you to order at least four pounds and there is a huge hazmat fee). I could order some smokeless too pad that out but at the moment I am not in need of any smokeless. No where local carries black powder but most of the common substitutes are available.

If you were going to step away from the real thing in a tradition percussion gun what substitute would you go to?

I haven't used any of the substitutes in probably 25 years; but, when I did, pyrodex lit pretty good. A little slower to ignite than BP but it will go bang. If you have some BP left, use about 10 grains as a primer charge then the rest of your load with pyrodex or whatever you decide to use. A friend of mine uses that technique in his flint guns and swears by it.

 

[alsaqr]

Pyrodex is only a little potassium perchlorate away from being real black powder.

The original Pyrodex patent lists these ingredients: 45 parts potassium nitrate, 9 parts charcoal. 6 parts sulfur, 19 parts potassium perchlorate, 11 parts sodium benzoate, 6 parts dicyandiamide, 4 parts dextrin

1 additional percent of water is mentioned.

Potassium perchlorate adds puissance to the mixture: All the black powder substitutes contain this.