Blackpowder recommendation desired (not a substitute)

[whughett]

Expanding on my previous post, looking at the last shipment of powder from Grafs earlier this past summer their brand was still Schuetzen. Old stock I’m guessing. I’m down to 6 pounds time to order while it’s there. Think I’ll mix it up and try the OE. Swiss is too expensive for my type of shooting.

 

[Mike OTDP]

For the OP's purposes, hunting and plinking, standard Goex is entirely suitable. Olde Eynsford is an excellent powder, and I give Hogdon a lot of credit for developing it instead of sitting on their laurels. Swiss is also excellent, it's what I feed my match pistols. The carbine and rifle-musket get regular Goex, I'm not primarily a rifle shooter.

 

[rodwha]

For the OP's purposes, hunting and plinking, standard Goex is entirely suitable. Olde Eynsford is an excellent powder, and I give Hogdon a lot of credit for developing it instead of sitting on their laurels. Swiss is also excellent, it's what I feed my match pistols. The carbine and rifle-musket get regular Goex, I'm not primarily a rifle shooter.

Standard Goex performance lacks too much for me in a handgun. Not a big deal when you aren’t constrained to a short chamber.

Just looked in a book where the Lyman Plains Pistol is shot with a max load of 40 grn 3F and a ball. Swiss popped out going 1040 FPS. Not bad. The Goex load was 884 FPS. Not a very inspiring muzzle velocity. Guess I wouldn’t want to use it in anything that can hold a fair amount of powder either.

 

[dave951]

3f Old E (Goex product) Develop load. Enjoy the hunt.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I need to order some black powder and figured I would ask if there is any good reason to move away from my tried and true Goex brand

Sure there is a good reason..., just as there are good reasons not to move away.... the question is do any of those reasons apply to you?

Good reasons to switch.., some people who have issues with fouling report that Swiss fouls less. Some people who need very consistent velocities with their loads get that with Swiss. I don't think game animals and most targets at target shoots care for either of those two factors, but I don't shoot BP in precision long range matches.

Sorta good reason to switch..., you could shoot Graf's brand black powder, but that's not really a switch as GOEX makes the powder now that Graf's sells under the Graf's name. Just FYI if you can find Graf's cheaper, it's really GOEX. Formerly the Graf's powder came out of Germany.

Good reasons not to switch..., you already have loads worked up for the GOEX (as mentioned by another post). GOEX is American made, and depending on who raises the right had next January 20th and is the new POTUS, supporting an American company so that the BP is not FUBAR due to possible import restrictions might be a good idea. Olde Eynsford is also GOEX so that's not really a change, and if you don't shoot a whole bunch at one time and thus decide you have a problem with fouling, or you really need to be breaking 10-rings at a match..., I don't see the value in spending the extra money. The deer don't react different as far as I can tell when hit with good old "red label" GOEX loads...neither do the rabbits, squirrels, or upland birds.

LD

 

[mcb]

3f Old E (Goex product) Develop load. Enjoy the hunt.

Curious why suggest using FFFg in a 58 cal instead of FFg? I have used FFFg in my 58 but did not see any great improvements or performance boost and now pretty much only use FFg. In my 54 caliber plains pistol the FFFg does perform better and give me a little more velocity than FFg in my gun. Thanks.

 

[rodwha]

Curious why suggest using FFFg in a 58 cal instead of FFg? I have used FFFg in my 58 but did not see any great improvements or performance boost and now pretty much only use FFg. In my 54 caliber plains pistol the FFFg does perform better and give me a little more velocity than FFg in my gun. Thanks.

I’ve read of many people using 3F all the way up to their 12ga and everything else. Some say it’s the reduced loads to achieve the same results as 2F. Some say it fouls much less. Some claim it’s an accuracy improvement, though I’ve read far too many other accounts of 2F and 1.5F doing better than 3F in calibers a little smaller than your .58. Only way to know is to try it and see. If you do I’d suggest backing off 10% (rule of thumb for difference) of the charge for going to 3F and another 15% for the velocity difference and see what you get, and work from there.

For myself I prefer the idea of stocking and carrying one granulation for everything. But if I can’t get good results with 3F Olde E with my rifle I will try both Swiss 3F and 2F Olde E and see what I see, though I’m not sure if my NMA would pack as much punch as I’d like. And maybe then I’d stock different granulations.

 

[Jim Watson]

I load Swiss 1 1/2 in my BPCRs. I tried Schuetzen with poor results, Goex FFFg gave higher velocity but poorer accuracy in my .38-55.

The independent Goex had a couple of powders that Hodgdon did not carry over. Cartridge and a premium grade I forget the name of; Classic, maybe. Reports are that Olde Eynsford has some of the improvements of Classic but not all; just what Hodgdon was willing to pay for.

 

[.38 Special]

I’ve read of many people using 3F all the way up to their 12ga and everything else. Some say it’s the reduced loads to achieve the same results as 2F. Some say it fouls much less. Some claim it’s an accuracy improvement, though I’ve read far too many other accounts of 2F and 1.5F doing better than 3F in calibers a little smaller than your .58. Only way to know is to try it and see. If you do I’d suggest backing off 10% (rule of thumb for difference) of the charge for going to 3F and another 15% for the velocity difference and see what you get, and work from there.

For myself I prefer the idea of stocking and carrying one granulation for everything. But if I can’t get good results with 3F Olde E with my rifle I will try both Swiss 3F and 2F Olde E and see what I see, though I’m not sure if my NMA would pack as much punch as I’d like. And maybe then I’d stock different granulations.

I spent a good year experimenting with a 12 bore rifle. One of the things I discovered is that original loads were almost always listed as large doses of Curtis & Harvey #6, which apparently was about FFFg granulation. For those of us - myself included - who had been brought up to think of FFFg as a pistol and squirrel rifle powder it was a bit of a shock. I suspect the point was simply horsepower. At least in my rifle there was no practical accuracy difference between Fg, FFg, and FFFg, but the finer grain powder certainly did increase velocity.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Curious why suggest using FFFg in a 58 cal instead of FFg? I have used FFFg in my 58 but did not see any great improvements or performance boost and now pretty much only use FFg.

Well I use 3Fg in my .54, and in my 20 gauge (.62) trade gun, because they are flinters, and I use the same powder for both main charge and prime. Keeps things simple and I use from 70 to 80 grains in my 20 gauge.

LD

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

When I first started shooting Black Powder in my replica Colt Navy in 1968 I was buying Goex, just like everybody else did. I could be wrong, but I don't recall there being any other choices. Apparently I was buying FFFg. Catch the price on the can on the right. I bought a few cans from a friend who had bought it quite a long time earlier.






Fast forward about about 30 years later, right up until today and most of my BP loading is in cartridges. 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, 44-40, 44 Russian, 38-40, 45-70, and 12 gauge shotgun.

At the time I was using Elephant and Goex. I was using FFFg in the pistol cartridges, and FFg in 45-70 and 12 gauge. All other things being equal, you will see between 60 -100fps more velocity using FFFg instead of FFg. I eventually decided to just keep one granulation on hand, to make things easier, so now I load FFg in everything. I don't sweat the slight loss in velocity.

Elephant is not made any more.

For the last ten years or so I have been using Schuetzen FFg for everything. If you cannot read the fine print on the bottle, Schuetzen is manufactured in Germany by WANO Schwarzpulver GanbH (Schwarzpulver translates from German as blackpowder.)






Yes, many folks think Swiss is the best. One reason is Swiss uses a better grade of charcoal, made from buckthorn alder. As far as I know, Goex still uses charcoal made from willow. I'm pretty sure Schuetzen also uses the same buckthorn alder charcoal that Swiss uses. In my experience, because of the superior charcoal, Schuetzen leaves less fouling behind than Goex. That is why I changed from Goex to Schuetzen. I have not bought any for a while, but in my experience Schuetzen was only slightly more expensive than Goex. A friend and I would split 25 pounds from Maine Powder House every year or two when we needed more powder. You go through a lot of Black Powder if you do much shooting.

I have never bought any Swiss because I simply did not want to pay that much, and Schuetzen worked fine for me. Same with Old E.