Best "brush buster" gun?

[bassjam]

I'm in the "it doesn't matter camp". I've had a 35 yard shot at a doe push a 1oz slug from her vitals to her spine. She dropped like a sack of potatoes, but then got up on her front legs and tried to drag herself as her hind legs were paralyzed. After dispatching her I retraced my line of shot and found a 1/4" low hanging branch cleanly snapped about 5 yards from where I had been sitting. In the first light of dawn I didn't notice it.

Newton's laws of motion pretty much say that there will always be some deflection. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. A heavy bullet may deflect less than a light one when hitting an equally sized piece of brush, but even a fraction of a degree of deflection can mean the difference between a hit and a miss.

 

[Jason_W]

As others have pointed, there's a lot of evidence suggesting that all bullets can be deflected by brush to a degree that will put you way off the mark. Still, there are attributes I want in a brush gun that have nothing to do with resistance to deflection.

The rifle should be short, sleek, comfortable to carry with few parts to snag on brush.

A sight system that is low magnification and quick to acquire.

Fires a round sufficiently powerful to take advantage of shot angles that are less than ideal. Chances are you're not going to get a textbook broadside shot in the thick stuff, so I want something that can break heavy bone if need be or penetrate to the vitals from almost any angle. I also want a big heavy round that is likely to penetrate through and through leaving a more prominent blood trail.

 

[Jackal]

There's no replacement for displacement. Get the heaviest rifled slug you can chamber in a sub 9lb gun. Then again, you *could just get a clear shot.

 

[armoredman]

If you watch that movie you will see true "fun with cars", especially at the end.

 

[Saddlebag Preacher]

.35 Remington

 

[SwampWolf]

No disputing I have a "brush gun"-says so right on the box of my Savage Model 99 rifle, chambered in .358 Winchester!

 

[GunnyUSMC]

No disputing I have a "brush gun"-says so right on the box of my Savage Model 99 rifle, chambered in .358 Winchester!

A brush buster gun and a brush gun are two different things. One is for hunting in brush county and the other is for shooting things behind brush.

 

[Jackal]

Here are my basic criteria for a "brush gun" in the Northwest.

1. Barrel shorter than 20in
2. Caliber .30 or larger
3. Ability to mount low magnification optic
4. Weigh less than 8lb
5. Rough finish or inexpensive rifle

 

[cdb1]

None, brush busting cartridges are a myth.

 

[Lloyd Smale]

a big bore with a non expanding hard cast bullet is going to shoot straighter through obstacles. But it has to hit them square. Now if you had a deer standing behind a 4 inch tree a hard cast 4570 is going to do much better then a 3006 with jacketed bullets. Now hit that tree with a glancing blow and neither are going to do well. Your ALLWAYS better off with a gun accurate enough to find a hole in the brush. For the most part a GOOD hunter would never shoot at an animal that was behind of bunch of heavy brush or behind a tree.

 

[Tirod]

As said, testing over the years - long ago, even - showed that the so-called "brush busters" didn't. I remember the American Rifleman test using dowel rods which any of you can repeat easily. Just drill some holes in a thick board laying flat, with spacing close enough together to hit one. Bullets will deflect.

I'm going to suggest you could turn a corner - but nobody has tried it to my knowledge. Enough dowel rods properly spaced at the correct intervals and it should be possible. It's simply an experiment in controlled ricochet.

Let's also not forget that it doesn't take brush to cause a miss - the wind alone can do it. How many championships have been decided by an errant puff of wind? The further to the target the more deflection. If moving air will do it - so will solid objects.

That is the point of the FBI test for windshield penetration. It's been apparent in the testing the bullet always deflects high due to the angle of the windshield, and that has created a simple technique to correct for it. Shoot lower.

The discussion and how long it's been around does reflect something else, tho, shooting game without a clear view of the target. How far do we go before it's no longer a discussion of a few errant twigs and an issue of not readily identifying what you have in your sights? The ugly truth is that hunters are shot every year - so, was somebody being a bit overconfident in their brush buster?

 

[SwampWolf]

No disputing I have a "brush gun"-says so right on the box of my Savage Model 99 rifle, chambered in .358 Winchester!

A brush buster gun and a brush gun are two different things. One is for hunting in brush county and the other is for shooting things behind brush.

Take it up with Savage, GunnyUSMC. The Savage catalog describes their Model 99-358 "Brush Gun" as being apparently two rifles rolled into one: "Much recent demand for a brush gun in a caliber (.358 Winchester) with brush-bucking performance has necessitated the introduction of this rifle."

I'm not arguing that any rifle is necessarily a "brush gun" nor that any cartridge is necessarily a "brush buster". All I did was report what Savage alleged, rightly or wrongly.

 

[Varminterror]

None, brush busting cartridges are a myth.

Yup.

I tend to agree with most of the others here - what makes a great brush busting rifle is the rifle, not the cartridge. Light, short & handy, and fast onto target, with a cartridge which anchors game quickly so it won't run off to get lost in heavy cover when it goes down.

Marlin 1895's in 45-70 and 1894's in 44mag have been personal favorites for a long while. My wife has also been shooting an 18" 458 Socom for a couple years as well, which piqued my interest, so I'm currently working on a 10.5" suppressed SBR my own "brush busting" rifle. Magpul UBR (currently a pistol for ~4 more months if I trust the status line), Ergo Deluxe, Geiselle NM 2 stage, Fail Zero Chrome, Diamondhead VR-S T modular, BHW 10.5", and SiCo Hybrid 46, from front to back.

 

[ridgerunner1965]

i dont shoot thru brush. never have.i wait for a clear shot or dont shoot at all.

 

[Crowman]

A movie called Deadly Weapons done about 30+ years ago did a lot of testing of things like this, including the deflection in brush. IIRC the conclusion was everything will deflect. Interesting movie to watch if you get the chance, once you get past the useless water jug testing in the first part.

I owned a copy of that very VHS tape. Yes, it was eye opening.

I know from personal experience that there is no such thing as a "brush buster" cartridge. I lost an 8 point buck two years ago because a tree branch 56 yards (measured distance with Nikon 550) from me deflected my .260 Remington 120 grain Nosler Ballastic Tip. Bullet went cartwheeling right over his back...a clean miss. The shot literally scared the crap out of him... he pushed a big load of pellets right where he was standing when the bullet went over him and then he tore up the ridge at full tilt.

On a doe day two years before that, I lost a fat juicy doe when a 3/4" sapling about 62 yards from me deflected my .260....it completely cut the sapling down, and the doe and I both stared at each other with a "what th'..." look. As I racked another round in the chamber, she strolled deeper into the brush and I couldn't get a clear sight picture on her again. A buck would gave hauled butt, but she kinda "shrugged" her shoulders and wandered off into the trees, seemingly unconcerned. Darnedest thing. I just had to laugh...after I cussed a blue streak.

Typically, shots around me are between 40-60 yards because of the dense tree growth and steep ridges. You really have to thread the needle through the holes and pray you don't hit any limbs, saplings, or brush...otherwise, you get nada.

 

[armoredman]

That's a deer you let go - anyone with brass like that deserves to live.
The first part of the movie was boring, but the second half..."This is dynamite, which has nothing to do with guns, but we had a car left over..."
My BRUSH gun is my CZ 527M/CSR, 7.62x39mm light short fast and handy bolt gun. It will brush bust on maybe grass...

 

[Maj Dad]

This has been argued, discussed, cussed, orated, and ruminated upon interminably since I bought my first Gun Digest in 1958, and despite the conventional wisdom and rural legend, the bottom line in every objective test is that all projectiles will deflect, with the aforementioned most stable ones deflecting slightly less. But they all do, and you will miss if the deflecting flora is much more than a couple of feet from the target. Just try to get a clear shot...

 

[JeeperCreeper]

I didn't see it mentioned, but IraqVeteran8888 does a testing video on a similar premise. I'll post a link but I don't remember his conclusion.

 

[Corn-Picker]

If they all deflect when hitting brush, then the best one is probably the 22-250, as the smaller bullet is less likely to hit brush in the first place

 

[dh1633pm]

I consider a brush gun as something I can carry on my back and it won't get caught up. I have hunted a lot of heavy woods and shot many a tree when leading a deer. A tree will always deflect a bullet by stopping it. A rifle you can carry without it getting caught is a true brush gun.

 

[Corn-Picker]

My CZ 527 youth carbine in 7.62x39 is a decent brush gun. Only 36" long, weighs about 5.5 pounds, and can shoot as far as I can see in the woods I hunt.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

There is no such thing as a "brush buster" cartridge. Many years ago (in the 1970s) the American Rifleman published the results of an extensive test of the "brush buster" theory. They made "brush" with wooden dowels set in 2X4 bases, and backed that with a series of targets with frangible backing. They demonstrated that after striking "brush" bullets from all cartridges flew far and wide -- most of them tumbling and leaving keyholes in the backings.

They concluded that best results were from almost indestructible bullets (which rules out soft points) driven at high velocities and spun very fast. In as much as any bullet succeeded in "brush busting" it was the .30 Armor Piercing round.

 

[Crowman]

Here are my basic criteria for a "brush gun" in the Northwest.

1. Barrel shorter than 20in
2. Caliber .30 or larger
3. Ability to mount low magnification optic
4. Weigh less than 8lb
5. Rough finish or inexpensive rifle

Sounds like a classic application for a scout rifle or European "stalking" rifle.

 

[BigBore44]

Now why would anyone bust brush with a gun. That just seems silly. Go gets a woodsman pal and bust brush till your hearts content.

 

[gotboostvr]

When I think of a carbine for brush I think about it's handling characteristics firstly.

It's a carbine for instances that I may have a hard time quickly getting into position to get off a shot at short range. A 44mag or properly loaded 45LC should be plenty since I don't have a lot of barrel to get a bottle necked cartridge going at full speed I'll take a larger caliber since expansion might be iffy. Not nessecarily a larger cartridge.

I tote a 16" Rossi 92 in 44mag, a buddy carries a 20" Marlin 45-70. This past rifle season on the same drive we had similar shot opportunities that played out very differently. I was able to maneuver into a position and comfortably take a shot and put my buck down DRT, while he got his larger action and longer barrel hung up in the thick stuff. He managed to get his doe, but it was a bit more messy having blown off three of its legs with his first two shots before putting one in the boiler room.

I put zero faith in either cartridges ability to mythicaly "bust brush". I like my 44 because I can more easily get it into a position where I don't have to.