best rifle for worst case scenario?

[BusMaster007]

Please read this thread:

Following is the link to the thread on AR15.com, and the Summary of the thread: The Ideal Rifle

http://www.ar15.com/content/articles/idealRifle/

Summary
The "ideal rifle" as described above is an AR-15 with a short (14.5 or 16) lightweight or M4-contoured barrel with 1/7 or 1/9 twist (latter preferred), flash hider, M4 collapsible stock, A1 carry handle receiver (with A2 aperture). Options can include illuminated optical sight and a weapon-mounted light.
A scope can re-balance a front-heavy rifle (caused by tactical light).
This configuration gives the greatest flexibility under a variety of conditions, and performs its duties as well as or better than any alternative.

The need for self defense under unpredictable geography, weather, and conditions is common to every military force. It is also common to police forces and anyone interested in "survival."
A large portion of the world’s armies has adopted the AR-15 in its various forms, and currently police departments throughout the world are making the switch.
The U.S. military, perhaps the best equipped Army in the world has recently begun deploying it’s new generation rifle to it’s forces: an AR-15 with a collapsible stock, short barrel, and optical sights where appropriate.
Millions of dollars on research and development have been spent to find the "ideal rifle" and the AR-15 has once again risen to the top.
_______________________________________________________________


I felt pretty good about choosing a Bushmaster Dissipator A2 before I ever found the article!
I'm still glad I have that rifle.

 

[Baron357]

Anybody who advocates that AK rifles are not accurate enough does NOT have the proper training and skills. If you have a good AK and proper riflemen skills you can take regular body shots with an AK at 500 yrd. with iron sights. Try going to an Appleseed shoot and learning proper skills before repeating myths that do nobody any favors. Yes an AR is more accurate but a GOOD AK is nothing to scowl about.

 

[doubleg]

Not everyone has the time or money to go to tacticool rifle training courses.

 

[Nickle]

Not everyone has the time or money to go to tacticool rifle training courses.

Ah, but you don't really NEED that training.

Pittsburg?

What if I told you there was a program where you could only pay $70 for 2 days of training. And that training, if followed through with self practice, could get you to the point you could hit a 20" wide (human torso) target at 500 yards, most of the time. That training is within A DAY'S DRIVE of you, and you use your own rifle and ammo. That you could use a .22 rifle for a majority of the training. That there might be FREE CAMPING on site. That, if you chose the right event, you would be shooting out to 400 yards, or if you chose a different location, could do the ENTIRE program with a .22 rifle.

Would you be interested?

http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php

There's an event in Jericho, VT on the 20/21 October weekend. We'll be shooting out to 400 yards, and there is free camping on site.

One of the Instructors is an Army National Guard NCO. There should be several Army Guard members there as well. They know what they are doing when it comes to "tactical shooting", and they say this is THE place to start.

PM me or reply with any questions.

 

[High Planes Drifter]

Nickle, are there any Appleseed courses in the deep south, around south Mississippi, or south Louisiana?

 

[Regolith]

Personally, I'd go with something chambered in either 5.56x45 or 7.62x51.

Reason? Ammo. Even if you have a large stock, it could run dry, or you may have to leave without it. So you're going to want to have something that's easily available in your area. In the United States, .223/.308 and 5.56x45/7.62x51 are what's going to be readily available, because they're standard rounds for police and military. 7.62x39 is not.

In most of rest of the world, you're going to want to have an AK or something in 7.62x39. But in NATO countries, NATO calibers are best.

 

[701]

if i were to choose between colt and bushmaster, is one more interchangable parts wise with varying manufacturers than the other? Im afraid to even ask which is a better rifle as it seems like the eternal ford vs chevy debate, but I know I have heard colt has a different pin size on the lower, is this to suggest that a colt lower will only take a colt upper while a bushmaster will take an upper from various manufacturers? If this is true, is there an adapter, and if so, does it really work?
also, I checked out one of the yugo ak underfolders last week, it looked well built, but im a little leary asmy friend bought a norinco ak and the gas block broke off of it. some poor gunsmith had a hell of a time fixing it. (he did an unbelievable job on it though). its got me leary of ak's in general....still, the yugo is really tempting....thinking I could get one of those and a bushmaster, or just get a colt with the same $.

 

[Browning]

701 : if i were to choose between colt and bushmaster, is one more interchangable parts wise with varying manufacturers than the other? Im afraid to even ask which is a better rifle as it seems like the eternal ford vs chevy debate, but I know I have heard colt has a different pin size on the lower, is this to suggest that a colt lower will only take a colt upper while a bushmaster will take an upper from various manufacturers? If this is true, is there an adapter, and if so, does it really work?

On the Maryland AR15 Shooters Site they say that most Colt AR-15 recievers will work with most AR-15 parts, but there are other sites that say that say that some of the trigger group won't work at all and that certain pins are necessary in order to get the lower and upper to match up correctly.

Since Colt is kind of over rated now and since their AR's cost more than the other AR-15 manufacturers do the whole point's kind of moot unless you just HAVE TO have that little Colt Horse on your reciever. To me it doesn't make much difference, but to some it might.

Here's what I found on the subject.

In the Boston Gun Bible he says that some parts from other AR manufacturers won't match up and I can't see him saying that unless it was the truth. I've never owned a Colt AR-15, so I can't say whether they do or not with any certainty.

I'm sure that it's on here somewhere.
www.ar15.com

This says that most of them will work......
http://groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/ar15brands.msnw

...and this says that they won't
http://www.gunmuse.com/Reviews/DPMS%20AR-15%20from%20Panther%20Arms

The quote below is from the Gun Muse Site.

The lower recievers are not interchangeable with standard Colt uppers- The front pin on the DPMS is smaller and this makes changing DPMS lowers with Colt manufactured uppers or third party parts are not possible. - i.e different caliber uppers, Bolt action uppers, any number of addon's manufactured by 3rd party companies.

Not fond of the way DPMS interacts with the dealers themselves. DPMS is taking an approach similiar to Dillon Precision in that really attempt to go consumer direct with their sales and the Federal laws stand in the way of that. On the other hand it is by far the easiest Marketing department that I have ever worked with. The professionalism and speed at which they moved was greatly appreciated and speaks well to what consumers can expect by dealing direct with the factory.

To me it's just easier to avoid the whole issue and buy Bushmaster, Rock River, LMT, Les Baer, Wilson, POF, DSA, Stag or from one of the other reputable companies that make them. They're all interchangable with each other so you'll never have to worry about it if you buy one of them.

also, I checked out one of the yugo ak underfolders last week, it looked well built, but im a little leary asmy friend bought a norinco ak and the gas block broke off of it. some poor gunsmith had a hell of a time fixing it. (he did an unbelievable job on it though). its got me leary of ak's in general....still, the yugo is really tempting....thinking I could get one of those and a bushmaster, or just get a colt with the same $.

The Chinese owned company Norinco is a completely different manufacturer than the Yugo AK models and they were made thousands of miles away from each other with different materials, by different workers and using different standards, so you can't judge one by another.

 

[loose cannon]

opinions?

pick between a socom 16 and a ar?? this rifle must serve all purposes all ranges and defend you and you loved ones thru thick and thin against all threats??

socom 16 nothing else comes close.with this gun and a decent supply of mags and a reasonable stock of ammo you have it covered!

with some tooling and study you can make 308 ammo to stop everything man beast and some light armored vehicles.

try that with your 223/556 mousegun

 

[Deer Hunter]

Why not get a 5.56mm AK?

 

[DiN_BLiX]

Thats what I would take.

 

[sacp81170a]

try that with your 223/556 mousegun

No prob. For what you spend on your Socom 16, I can have my mousegun and an upper in one of these calibers:

.243 WSM
6 x 45mm
6.5 Grendel (.264 cal)
6.8 SPC (.270 cal)
.45 Bushmaster
.458 SOCOM
.50 AE
.50 Beowulf
.50 BMG

I'd probably opt for the 6.8 as being the best all purpose round, but the Grendel looks good, too. Not saying that I'm not planning on getting a Socom 16, just that the platform isn't as flexible.

 

[701]

thanks.
ima little leery of .223 ak as parts may be harder to come by?
same for the socom, though i love it
who is making (semi) uppers for govt./military? assuming it would be legal, which make would be most interchangable should my grandkids need parts many years from now? (though i doubt we'll be using the ar platform by then anyway..

 

[701]

nice choice on the song lyrics bye the way!
shows character and good taste

 

[sacp81170a]

who is making (semi) uppers for govt./military?

Knight's Armament makes the SASS, I think they supply some uppers.
Colt, obviously.
Rock River
DPMS
Armalite
Olympic Arms
Stag

Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head. Any others to add to the list?

 

[MHBushmaster]

Wow, lots of misinfo in this thread. Just get an AR15 and call it a day. You can adjust your AR15 rifle for just about any application. You would be picking the most versatile rifle platform ever created if you go with an AR15. An AK47 rifle is gonna keep chugging along and its gonna take alot of abuse, but those are its only real major things going for it in a real SHTF situation. Ammo price, mag price, rifle price are all a moot point once the balloon goes up.
Basically, its all about getting the most and the best that you can before the SHTF 'cause when its time to get behind the trigger and do the gun thing, your $150-$200 savings by getting a WASR-10 isn't gonna add up to a hill of beans when it comes time to putting lead on the target at long distances when you absolutely need a bullet on target. A person that can engage a target at 400 yards on the first shot is gonna be a better assest to long term survival compared to a person carrying around an AK-clone, with 30 rounds of wolf steel cased ammo that can only effectively hit targets at 100 yards with multiple shots. Sure you can tune up your AK to get hits at 250 yards, but the B.C. of the bullet is going to be working against you the whole way and your gonna have to increase your training time to get any decent proficiency.

First off, get an AR15, mainly because the reliability issues that many get their underwears all in a bunch about have been resolved for about 35 years now. The AR15 rifle can become a .22lr plinker to a .50 beuwolf in a matter of seconds. Calling the AR15 a mouse gun is like calling an F-16 an over priced lawn dart.
Secondly, the AK47 gets its chair at the table of the discussion mainly because it is bone achingly stupid reliable. That's about it. 3-5 MOA at 100 yards is minute of man for sure, but when it comes to a rifle, I prefer something that is at least half of that. Especially when shooting past 200 yards. The ballistics coefficient of the 7.62x39 bullets is it hugely limiting factor. Taking a .223 AK makes a little more sense, but again you are limited by a reduced sighting radius and loose tolerances that increase reliability but decrease accuracy.
The SOCOM-16 is the answer to the problem that never existed for a SHTF scenario. You are now humping around 7.62x51 ammo in steel 20rd mags and can carry significanly LESS ammo than compared to .223 or x39 ammo.

 

[Walt65]

Mini 14 or Mini 30.