cdb1
Member
So it is safe to use, for example, Remington CoreLokt 165 grain factory ammo in a Garand?
All day long...it's a duplicate of the AP 165grn loadSo it is safe to use, for example, Remington CoreLokt 165 grain factory ammo in a Garand?
So it is safe to use, for example, Remington CoreLokt 165 grain factory ammo in a Garand?
Considering a large part of your quoted comment is flat untrue .. THIS is why it's so hard to beat back the vs M2 ball only myth when people like you post utter BS.Given how expensive and hard to find a new op rod is, I’d pass on commercial ammo.
Even some military ball is suspect. Much of the late manufactured Lake city M2, (that on linked belts for .30cal machine guns) was loaded with a spherical powder approximating the burn rate of Winchester 760 (H414). This has been Linked to some bent op rods. A lot of this ammo was delinked and sold reboxed at Gun shows through the years. My older brother bent the op rod on his (now mine) M1 back in the mid’80’s. Fortunately he was able to get another one installed by an old school gunsmith in Great Falls, Montana. He’d bought the gun from another match competitor who had previously rebarreled the gun ( a Blue Sky import). I was warned about the ammo, which he gave me to shoot up through my bolt guns. I did! Chrono’d they ran 2,870fps from a 24” MkX Mauser. Hotter than most factory 168’s. They weighed 173gr... Vietnam era (‘72 LC) machine gun ammo.
Considering a gas valve cost $40 +/-, and an op rod $400+/-, I’d get a valve if stuck shooting factory ammo. Creedmoor sports loads and sells Garand safe ammo of various weights and grades at competitive prices.
Again, it’s the pressure curve and port pressure that is critical for the Garand. Powder as slow a H4831 (perhaps biggest offender in bent rods) produce as much as 2x the port pressure of IMR/H4895, which approximate the original powder for M1 ball.
Varget and Reloader15 are the slowest powders I’ll use in my M1’s.
With Reloader17 I can get an additional 200+fps from my bolts, but make sure the ammo is easily identified and don’t get near the Garands.
With factory ammo, you don’t know what you’re getting.
M2 ball "pressure" is a red herring...that isn't even a criteria for determining what's safe or not.THIS... should be your Guide.
As both the 150 gr. and 180 gr. Core-Lokt are loaded to M2 Ball pressures?
... would extrapolate that the 165 gr. Core-Lokt would be as well.
GR
Removed by poster
[/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1919_Browning_machine_gun]
Suppose What is linked .30/06 to be shot in this is called?
M2 ball "pressure" is a red herring...that isn't even a criteria for determining what's safe or not.
Don't forget that webpage is using their test data to convince you that you need their product.
Some of their test data is suspect and doesn't match with Springfield test data.
Buyer beware
No phobia....just presenting facts.Of what, exactly?
Your unsubstantiated Phobia?
The webpage is simply stating empirical data - that shows that, with certain rounds/loads, "Peak Pressure/Area under the Curve" pressure exceeds M2 spec., therefore Op-rod energy will as well.
Beretta - developed the "Low-compression head" gas lock screw for their (re-designed M1 Rifle) BM59.
GarandGear - makes that available (if needed) for the M1 Rifle.
GR
No phobia....just presenting facts.
Their data only shows pressure in the gas cylinder...and their data doesn't match up with Springfield armory testing.
The data they present only represents what happens before the oprod moves. The bullet has already left the barrel and gas pressure is already decreasing.. since the garand is a lossy gas system higher pressure gas leaves even faster.
One way to see that commercial ammo isn't a danger is by comparing oprod velocity.
When you do that you see that commercial and milsurp ammo move the oprod at similar velocity.
Therefore operating pressure is similar.
The reason that Beretta designed their lock screw is because the gas port is much closer to the chamber and the pressure is higher. If the gas port was the same distance as a full size garand they wouldn't have changed anything except to make the gas port hole larger to makeup for the less gas volume of the 7.62.
Not too mention their test has several inconsistencies....
Remember those who are selling you a product are also showing you their data on why you need their product....
Marketing...
Now you are thinking...Did Springfield Armory use a digital high-speed pressure transducer in the 1930's?
And again, All rounds, including M2, are tested on the same equipment.
What makes the Op-rod move?
Gas Pressure.
Only.
Variables - are the same per rifle w/ any given load.
If - the Peak/Total pressures are the same (or less) than M2 spec., the rifle won't know the difference.
Peak pressure - determines Op-rod stress.
Total pressure - determines Op-rod speed.
Taking one index out of context, and making it critical... is religious.
Stress - bends Op-rods... not speed.
GR
I've read it..thats why I'm pointing out the inconsistencies in their data collection and presentation...they tested some of the weaker M2 ball out there. Plus they say the gas cylinder pressure is close to 1100psi...the Govt says it's twice that... So something is wrong for them to be that far off...Impulse - will determine Stress.
And that will be driven by Peak pressure.
Total pressure (area under the curve) will drive velocity.
IF you possess an Engineering mind - suggest you Read the GarandGear Testing Hardware and Gas Cycle literature.
GR
It's not a gas plug and it's not needed as testing has shown.There is made a gas plug that slips into an M1 that allows different ammunition to be shoot.
It's not a gas plug and it's not needed as testing has shown.
It's not a gas plug and it's not needed as testing has shown.
We are back to the oprod isn't speeding....
If it's moving the same speed with commercial ammo as it is with milsurp ammo then the pressure is the same.
I'm still waiting on proof of how the oprod is "stressed".
But let's not forget they only used weaker ammo while M2 that's "hotter" wasn't tested.... I wonder why...
Not true at all...You are obfuscating.
... and extremely careless in your research of the GarandGear Commercial Ammunition page.
As stated, ad nauseam - Area under the Curve determines Op-rod speed - and that the "Ported Gas Screw" does not address that irrelevant point.
It addresses Peak pressure - where forces exceed M2 Ball.
... and determining acceptable Commercial Ammo along the way.
As for "hotter" ammo?
There are several in his data, Fiocchi being one of them.
GR