Best Semiautomatic DMR?

[LoneRider]

I've been doing some research for the next weapon I want to buy and concluded I'd prefer a semiautomatic rifle with excellent accuracy with price being no object. And also I'd like it to be an excellent field system too.

Why semi over bolt? I like the rapid follow-on shot option. Don't get me wrong I like bolt action rifles as well (having been raised shooting a Winchester .243 and a .22 Marlin LR since boyhood), but I like a good quick follow-on shot.

As far as caliber is concerned, I've narrowed it down from three choices last month (7.62x54mmR, 7.62x51mm, and .223 Remington) to 7.62x51mm or .223 Remington. 7.62x54mmR lost out because it failed the WalMart test, e.g. if I can't buy that round at 0200 at a 24 hour WalMart anywhere in the country, then it's not the best round.

As for model, the Armalite sounds like a good choice because I've used it since I joined the military at 17 and thus am familiar with care and feeding of said weapon. I also like the M14 as well.

I also am intrigued by the idea of building a model of the new M110 SASS . I'm fairly evenly divided between three choices, building a customized M1A, building a reproduction SPR Mk.12, or building a reproduction M110 SASS.

As for reason of interest, I'd like to reproduce a quality, accurate semiautomatic weapon as close to military specs as I can build.

My big sticking points right now are type of round (7.62mm or .223), where to compromise (certainly not on barrel, chamber, or trigger mechanisms, but fancy stocks and the like?), and best places to find components. Can anyone help?

 

[maskedman504]

if I can't buy that round at 0200 at a 24 hour WalMart anywhere in the country, then it's not the best round.

NEWS FLASH- Wal-Mart should not be your go-to for ammunition; that should be your closet/safe. Preparation > convenience every time. Also, my Wal-Marts have had pretty slim pickens on ammunition for months.

 

[gga357]

I really like my FNAR.

 

[LoneRider]

Well aware of that. I tend to keep a lot of ammo where I live anyway. The Walmart analogy was simply to illustrate ammunition availability.

 

[maskedman504]

double-tap

 

[dscottw88]

If I wanted a DMR, I'd go with the AR platform. It's hands down one of the most accurate semi-auto's out there. And I believe a go-to rifle needs to be a semi, even in a DMR platform. In addition, Its a rifle you are already familiar with. On the other hand, the M1As are nice but a standard M1A is generally a 2-4 MOA rifle; and costs more to upgrade to sub-MOA.

Caliber is entirely up to you, BUT, if it were up to me, I'd stay wtih 5.56, and thats because I already have 4 ARs. Both 5.56 and 7.62 are perfectly capable of reaching out to 500 meters, the latter of which very well capable of 800+ meters. Plus, 5.56 is generally cheaper than 7.62.

You probably know all this and it sounds like you've nearly made up your mind. Whatever you decide on getting, be sure to post some pics!

 

[Gunnerpalace]

AR platform is good M14 style too. Oh and in before somebody recommends a oddball ammo.

 

[badbadtz560]

psg-1 .. gluck findin one though

 

[LoneRider]

Caliber is entirely up to you, BUT, if it were up to me, I'd stay wtih 5.56, and thats because I already have 4 ARs. Both 5.56 and 7.62 are perfectly capable of reaching out to 500 meters, the latter of which very well capable of 800+ meters. Plus, 5.56 is generally cheaper than 7.62.

AR does sound decent. But personally I like the 7.62 as well. I'm waffling a little I know. The M110 SASS appears to have an AR/M-16 lower receiver, however, so that makes the arguement in its case.

One that makes the 5.56 arguement stronger is that I've already been shooting 5.56 for nearly 8 years.

Any recommendations for optics? I'm not scrimping on optics that's for sure, but I'd also like to be able to have back-up iron sights in case my scope goes south of the border.

 

[H2O MAN]

If you have the means... M110 or a Crazy Horse M21A5.

I went with this CH M21A5 EBR built for me by Smith Enterprise, Inc.

It is also available in a GI synthetic stock:

Another M14 option is for you to build a clone of the TACOM M14 EBR-RI (no sound suppressor)

 

[Avenger29]

Noveske. They make 5.56 and 7.62mm ARs.

You will, however, be on a backorder for a while. Smaller shop and with the high demand...

The pickings are pretty slim for grabbing stuff off the shelf right now.

.308 is pretty much the standard of longer range shooting. 5.56 will get out a good ways, too. I completely agree about ammunition availability. If it isn't a common caliber, I won't buy it.

You might want to look at the Centurion Arms SPR. Here's a thread about it over at M4Carbine.net (which you should spend some time at if you are looking at buying an AR or AR derivative.)

 

[LoneRider]

If you have the means... M110 or a Crazy Horse M21A5.

H2OMan, how similar are the M110's inner workings to the M-16/M-4/AR15 minus the caliber. Because from the wikipedia article pictureand what I've been able to glean it bears at least a superficial resemblance to the AR-15 but chambered in 7.62mm. The M110 is definitely a top choice for a 7.62mm DMR.

Noveske. They make 5.56 and 7.62mm ARs.

You will, however, be on a backorder for a while. Smaller shop and with the high demand...

The pickings are pretty slim for grabbing stuff off the shelf right now.

.308 is pretty much the standard of longer range shooting. 5.56 will get out a good ways, too. I completely agree about ammunition availability. If it isn't a common caliber, I won't buy it.

You might want to look at the Centurion Arms SPR. Here's a thread about it over at M4Carbine.net (which you should spend some time at if you are looking at buying an AR or AR derivative.)

I'll definitely give that thread a looksee. Thanks a lot. I gave the Centurion Arms website a looksee and keep checking around for other SPR sites.

 

[H2O MAN]

LoneRider

H2OMan, how similar are the M110's inner workings to the M-16/M-4/AR15 minus the caliber.

Yep, it's basically an over sized and beefed up AR.
I had a real nice ArmaLite AR-10 SPR and some Gen-II mags, but I sold it to fund another M14 build.
You really can't go wrong with either, but I'm more comfortable with the robust M14 in modern stocks

 

[LoneRider]

True. I think if I elect for a 7.62 weapon and can go for the 7K+ pricetag the M110 might be the best choice for me. The rifle I've shot the most over the years has been an M-16 variant so there's that familiarity of operation and maintenance going for it.

In all probability it might be cheaper to build the SPR though, based on what I've heard and seen online. I might build an SPR now and then when I've got more capital, build an M110...

 

[Bill_Rights]

+1 gga357

The FNAR is probably too cheap for you ($1400) and too available (immediately), but it does have sub-1 MoA in .308 semi-auto, smooth recoil (else rapid second, third shot is meaningless) and eats any ammo. It is a profession police/SWAT DMR rifle and is plenty more rugged than a civilian hunting rifle. It is not drag-through-the-mud rugged like an MBR, though it might be and it's too new to know yet. Just a good, solid designated marksman rifle, not designed to be an MBR. Never yet heard of anyone buy one and be disappointed. Pretty good start for being around only ~ 1 year. Someday it'll be legendary like its older family-member, the FAL.

 

[lipadj46]

Someday it'll be legendary like its older familty-member, the FAL.

The FNAR is a BAR hunting rifle with a heavier barrel, optics rail and a tactical stock so it is not like it is an unknown. I have a feeling though thinking that it will be legendary someday is a bit of a stretch unless some military adopts it and it is used in a war.

 

[The Deer Hunter]

7.62x54mmR lost out because it failed the WalMart test, e.g. if I can't buy that round at 0200 at a 24 hour WalMart anywhere in the country, then it's not the best round.

Wal-Mart probably shouldn't be your basis for purchasing a new gun...

 

[rogertc1]

just wait till walmart no longer sells ammo

 

[LoneRider]

Wal-Mart probably shouldn't be your basis for purchasing a new gun...

That was merely an analogy for availability of ammunition. At least here in the States 7.62x51mm and 5.56x45mm are more commonly available than 7.62x54mmR. I tend to reload my own rounds or buy bulk from reputable sources anyway.

 

[Bill_Rights]

lipadj46,

You asserted:

The FNAR is a BAR hunting rifle with a heavier barrel, optics rail and a tactical stock so it is not like it is an unknown. I have a feeling though thinking that it will be legendary someday is a bit of a stretch unless some military adopts it and it is used in a war.

Granted the FNAR will not achieve legendary status by being used in armies. Heaven forbid! FN would never want that - it would cut into their sales of military-intended guns. How foolish.

Since we are posting only in service of LoneRider, I was merely trying to open his eyes to other possibilites to achieve his stated goal. A gun need not be military per se to achieve legendary status.

Witness the Marlin lever guns or the Rem 700 rifle. Several revolvers.

Anyway, "legendary" status, itself, may not be important LoneRider, but he clearly wants a rifle that's respectable among people who should know and somewhat-to-very impressive to those who don't.

But my OT point to our readship and LoneRider is that (and there is no greater admirer of the US Military than me), civilian and Law Enforcement (not to mention security guard and PDD, personnel defense detail) firearms and shooting accomplishments can rival or exceed military achievements, in their own way. In fact, we civilian shooters have (nearly) complete freedom to invent equipment, tactics, training and deployment that military practitioners can't, due to regs, equipment standardization, command structure, mission predefinition, etc. within the military. For ex., the reflex sight was invented in the private enterprise sphere for use by hunters, then later adopted by the military. I would say that the FNAR is another great example of a company thinking outside the military box. FN brilliantly combined their civilian and LE product line and does not offer any hunting or target-shooting rifles. However, the FNAR and almost any of their C/LE bolt guns are, in fact, great hunting tools and "interesting" target guns in the lower competition categories, with the right optics/sights. Just some perspective - not trying to change anybody's mind....

 

[JShirley]

if I can't buy that round at 0200 at a 24 hour WalMart anywhere in the country, then it's not the best round

Well, you're going to be out of luck. I live in one of the more gun-friendly states, and the local Wally's won't sell ammo after 10 PM. (I think it's a manpower thing, more than anything else.

This is my SDM rifle. I understand it's not that exotic, but it's really not that hard to make an AR platform pretty accurate, and spend most of the extra money on good optics, training, and ammunition. Instead of spending money on making an exact clone of some military-use model, I suggest looking instead at Zak Smith's suggestions. Personally, I think any type of squad marksman rifle is, by definition, an accurate and fast fighting rifle. Something like this appears to be about a perfect compromise of closer speed and longer-range accuracy.

John

 

[lonewolf_75]

I bought several boxes of ammo at a MO Walmart around 1:30 am today. They may only have staff available right now though due to turkey season (tags & shotgun ammo). What was interesting is that due to the shortage, they are limiting the ammo sales to two boxes per person, per day, regardless of the box capacity. I bought 2 boxes of 22 mag (50 rounds each), 7.62x39 (40 each), and .270 (20 each). They also had plenty of 30-30 and 30-06 available. I asked if that also applied to bricks of .22lr, but it was moot since they had none. Also they had no handgun ammunition to speak of.

Back to the point, there is definitely something to be said for using common calibers for purposes of ammo availability, whether or not you are a Walmart shopper.

 

[LoneRider]

Well, you're going to be out of luck. I live in one of the more gun-friendly states, and the local Wally's won't sell ammo after 10 PM. (I think it's a manpower thing, more than anything else.

Least in Florida I've been able to buy ammo at 0200 (last time I did so was before me and my old man went out to zero his hunting rifles and fire off our handguns back in 2007).

This is my SDM rifle. I understand it's not that exotic, but it's really not that hard to make an AR platform pretty accurate, and spend most of the extra money on good optics, training, and ammunition. Instead of spending money on making an exact clone of some military-use model, I suggest looking instead at Zak Smith's suggestions. Personally, I think any type of squad marksman rifle is, by definition, an accurate and fast fighting rifle. Something like this appears to be about a perfect compromise of closer speed and longer-range accuracy.

I'll definitely take that into account. At this point all I'm doing is research and web surfing. I've got a few months before building my rifle.

Granted the FNAR will not achieve legendary status by being used in armies. Heaven forbid! FN would never want that - it would cut into their sales of military-intended guns. How foolish.

Since we are posting only in service of LoneRider, I was merely trying to open his eyes to other possibilites to achieve his stated goal. A gun need not be military per se to achieve legendary status.

Heck, I know that as a student of military history. The lever action Winchester rifles are definitely a perfect example.

Anyway, "legendary" status, itself, may not be important LoneRider, but he clearly wants a rifle that's respectable among people who should know and somewhat-to-very impressive to those who don't.

The reason I want to make my DMR an AR-15 based system is because I've had the most practical experience with said system, to include the M4A1 currently slung 'round my neck and shoulder while being a 'Sandbox Sailor'.

 

[Bill_Rights]

Rider,

Cheers!

I want to make my DMR an AR-15 based system

And you'll do a fine job of it.

I have not been bitten by the AR-15 bug yet, but I recognize it as the premier build-it-to-be-anything-you-want system. And it is rewarding and fun to do this. I am disciplining myself NOT to get into this aspect of gunnery because I am, self-confessed, in catch-up mode of acquiring guns due to being, self-confessed, a recent-election-2A-activist (though I have shot all my life). Because of that, I buy ready-made guns with high function. FNH USA is good for that.

 

[Lloyd Smale]

id probably go with a m1a