Best WWII bolt action rifle

[Don357]

Seeing as how 95% of all WWII and WWI bolt action rifles were built on or based on Mauser actions (and still are), uh, I would say Mausers.

 

[snakeman]

either the k31 or the enfield in my opinion

 

[shep854]

"Fact of the matter is, the longest confirmed sniper kill in World War II was with a Mosin Nagant (approximately 1/4 mile, as I recall)."--WardenWolf

Are you sure? Not doubting your word, but that's only 400-500yd, easy pickings with open sights for any sort of marksman. Typo maybe??

 

[35 Whelen]

1/4 mile is about 440 yds. Like you said, someone highly skilled could do that with open sights. Typo I bet.

35W

 

[Mauser lover]

Well for me, it would be a toss up between the Mauser K98 design and the Lee Enfield design. The Mauser with its better accuracy, and quality of manufacture (yes, I know that the quality dropped off when the war actually started, but still...) and the Enfield with its 10 round detachable box, and shorter bolt length.

The Mauser action was copied in the M1903, and many, many hunting rifles, while the country that made the Lee Enfield, and much of the .303 ammunition has restricted firearm ownership. Americans are pretty friendly to a design stolen by their government, but have largely rejected the Enfield, while the average British sportsman who would love to have an Enfield instead of a Mauser, largely cannot get one.

 

[Maverick223]

I read that it was often said:

"The Germans had the best hunting rifle...the Americans the best target rifle...and the British the best battle rifle."

I have to agree. While I love Mausers, it certainly wouldn't be my first choice for a battle rifle, the SMLE is the one to grab (though the K31 isn't a bad choice either). While it isn't a bad rifle the '03 is nothing more than an upgraded copy of the Mauser.

 

[carbine85]

The Mosin wins for reliability, for ease of maintainence and repair, for cost of production, and for simplicity. Enfields and Springfields are horrendously complicated, Mausers take thousands of operations, and even late-war Arisakas are fairly complicated compared to a 91/30.
What's so complicated about the Springfields?

And your average Mosin is as accurate as your average anything else.

Not true or by US or British standards. Very few Mosins are as accurate as an 03 or Enfield and weren't built to be.

 

[Kachok]

K98 or M38 close call, both are much better then the Mosin IMHO

 

[italy4nra]

Enfield. Fast. 10 rounds. Aperture sights.
My favourite range rifle is the Mosin. On the field, would anyone really pick it up and leave the Enfield lying?

 

[USAF_Vet]

I've got a Mosin M44 and an Arisaka type 38. I wouldn't want to carry either into battle, but it's better than a stick.

 

[shep854]

'I read that it was often said:

' "The Germans had the best hunting rifle...the Americans the best target rifle...and the British the best battle rifle." '--1911Tuner

"...and the Russians the best rifle for minimally-trained masses."
For the Russians, that was a very good thing and met their specific needs admirably!

 

[Tempest 455]

because the swiss were in bed with hitler,, jewish gold and money found there way there in the middle of the night. the swiss have been paying back the loot hitler sent their during the war. eastbank.

Possibly.

The other is, the Swiss were trained marksmen using probbaly the most accurate rifle of the time period and hands down the most accurate of the ammmo of the time. They sent 500,000 troops into the mountains to protect the borders and Hitler knew this.

As well, Germany tried numerous attacks by air and every time, were shot down by well trained and highly accurate Swiss anit-aircraft.

This could be another reason.

 

[WardenWolf]

"Fact of the matter is, the longest confirmed sniper kill in World War II was with a Mosin Nagant (approximately 1/4 mile, as I recall)."--WardenWolf

Are you sure? Not doubting your word, but that's only 400-500yd, easy pickings with open sights for any sort of marksman. Typo maybe??

Maybe it was half a mile. I can't recall. But it was some obscenely long distance for the time.

 

[Billy Shears]

When it all boils down to it, every main player's primary bolt action rifle was effectively equal. Technology had refined it to the point where there was no significant difference in performance or accuracy.

I'm afraid I'll still have to disagree that they were equal. The Mosin-Nagant may have been as reliable and accurate, on average, as the average wartime Lee-Enfield, but the Enfield was vastly more user-friendly. It holds twice as many rounds, the bolt can be manipulated far more rapidly, and has a much better safety (from the point of view of ease of use, if not mechanical reliability). I am in no doubt as to which I would have preferred to carry.

In terms of sheer power, the German Mauser wins out. In terms of overall strength, the Japanese Arisaka rifles are the undisputed kings, as P.O. Ackley demonstrated post-war. The Enfield was honestly a somewhat outdated design by that point *ducks to avoid heavy things thrown at me*. Its action was comparatively weaker, as was the cartridge it fired.

What about that makes the Enfield "outdated"? It didn't need to be the world's strongest action; it only needed to be strong enough to fire the cartridge it was chambered for, and it was. And the .303 British wasn't that far behind the 8mm Mauser or the 7.64x54R in power. A British Tommy could effectively engage his targets at any distance a German or Russian infantryman could, and the terminal performance of the Mk. 7 .303 round was more than adequate. And don't forget, within a few years, armies would abandon these full power battle rifle cartridges in favor of intermediate cartridges anyway, because the vast majority of engagements occurred at ranges of 300 meters or less. So I fail to see anything particularly "outdated" about the Enfield.

 

[MachIVshooter]

The best bolt rifle of WWII was the Enfield.

The best rifle of the war was our Garand, hands-down.

 

[Billy Shears]

Possibly.

The other is, the Swiss were trained marksmen using probbaly the most accurate rifle of the time period and hands down the most accurate of the ammmo of the time. They sent 500,000 troops into the mountains to protect the borders and Hitler knew this.

As well, Germany tried numerous attacks by air and every time, were shot down by well trained and highly accurate Swiss anit-aircraft.

This could be another reason.

I have never heard of any serious attempt by the Luftwaffe to engage the Swiss Air Force. The closest that anything comes to that was the Swiss shooting down 11 German aircraft who violated their air space during the Battle for France in 1940. This was not a serious German attempt at an invasion of Switzerland.

Hitler never even actually wanted to fight England, what would make you think he seriously wanted to invade Switzerland? His overriding ambition was to go east. From first to last, he wanted nothing more than to invade Russia and take lebensraum in the east. He even resented having to divert into the Balkans and Greece in order to save Mussolini's bacon when the Greeks started kicking Il Duce's ass. Even the German effort in North Africa (again undertaken to rescue the in-over-their-heads Italians), was something he looked at as no more than a distracting sideshow, diverting men and resources from the eastern campaign that was all he really cared about.

Hitler didn't invade Switzerland, but it wasn't because he was terrified of the Swiss, it was because his real target was, first, last, and always, the Russians.

 

[Chevelle SS]

Mauser 98K

 

[Maverick223]

Maybe it was half a mile. I can't recall. But it was some obscenely long distance for the time.

I believe that Matthaus Hetzenauer was credited with the longest confirmed kill of WWII at 1100M, which would be a K98 or a Gewehr 43.

That said, the rifle used for the longest sniper shot doesn't mean much. The sniper's skill/training has more to do with the feat than does the equipment, and the average troop needn't and hasn't the skill to effectively engage targets at distance. Sights matter, practical accuracy matters, durability/ruggedness matters, ease/speed of operation matters...maximum effective range, not so much.

 

[csa77]

The enfield rifles no1mk3 and no4mk1 IMO are the quintessential bolt action military rifle. When I think wwI or wwII the rifle that instantly comes to mind is the enfield and the 303 cartridge

 

[PaulKersey3]

I've been meaning to add an Enfield Jungle .303 to my collection for a while. I've shouldered one before and liked the feel and look. My Arisaka is a badly beaten bring back I found nailed to a wall behind a dresser 15 years ago after an in-law passed away. My 1903 is a great gun, but seems more suited to hunting than battle. I have a K98 that shoots well, but the iron sights leave something to be desired. My Mosin is a nail driver. I picked up some old Sov-bloc AP ammo for it and that stuff made through and through wounds in an old Honda. Through both doors! I stand by my Mosin Nagant as my choice, but weighing others comments here I'm starting to see the light on that old Enfield. I remember reading somewhere that British colonialists used the .303 on tigers in India with good results.

 

[shep854]

PaulKersey3, not to scare you away from a 'Jungle' Enfield, but to forewarn you; those things are reputed to kick like a demented mule. A lot of weight was removed, and Newton will get his due!

 

[303tom]

This is how you tame the demented mule............

 

[Billy Shears]

PaulKersey3, not to scare you away from a 'Jungle' Enfield, but to forewarn you; those things are reputed to kick like a demented mule. A lot of weight was removed, and Newton will get his due!

They also suffered from "wandering zero" as a result of the weight reduction. The metal relieved from the receiver left it too prone to flex when the gun was fired, so after a while, it would lose its zero because of this flexing. Not helping recoil reduction either is the fact that after all these decades, the rubber recoil pads the British installed on the jungle carbines have dried out and hardened to the point where they're now about as soft as cast iron.

There was a company a few years ago making repro jungle carbines, but without all the same lightening cuts in the receiver, so supposedly they didn't suffer from the wandering zero problem, but these are not being made any more.

 

[Billy Shears]

I remember reading somewhere that British colonialists used the .303 on tigers in India with good results.

I don't know what sort of ammo they used for hunting, but the military ammo (the Mk. 7) that the British used in the world wars, had a fiber plug in the nose under the jacket. It was there to shift the center of gravity rearward, and encourage the bullet to tumble when it hit anything, exactly the way our modern 5.56mm is supposed to do, thus increasing its lethality.

 

[hang fire]

Due to not that many in service at the time and France being overrun so quickly, but don’t discount the Mas 1936.

I avoided it for years, but having recently acquired one, it is fast becoming my favorite bolt action milsurp rifle. Power is about on par with the 7.62x51 (.308) accuracy is very good and with a little practice, that odd looking bolt handle and with short throw of the action, it is super fast to operate

And BTW, save the old tired jokes about French soldiers and their weapons, it merely displays ignorance.