Best WWII bolt action rifle
- Thread starter PaulKersey3
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Safeties are not safe, they are accidents waiting to happen. For decades the French did not have safeties on their rifles, per capita, accidental discharges, resulting wounds and deaths from their rifles were far less than in armies of other nations having safeties on rifles.
If it didn't have to actually serve in WWII (since the K31 was mentioned), then I'd give the nod to the Swedish Mauser 6.5x55 and any number of the South American 7mm Mausers. (The K31 is good too)
Both the 6.5x55 and 7x57 rounds are more than enough to kill a man (and deer, and Elk, etc) so the extra kick of the 8mm, 7.62x54r and .30-06 rounds isn't needed.
I don't care about the axiom "battle tested" as much as others, so that opens up more gun choices (like the Swede and K31).
Both the 6.5x55 and 7x57 rounds are more than enough to kill a man (and deer, and Elk, etc) so the extra kick of the 8mm, 7.62x54r and .30-06 rounds isn't needed.
I don't care about the axiom "battle tested" as much as others, so that opens up more gun choices (like the Swede and K31).
Billy Shears
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Curious then, how I've managed to carry cocked and locked single actions for years, and when I was in the army, in the field I frequently carried an M16-A2, and then an M4, with a cartridge chambered at the safety engaged. In the police department, I've also carried M4-type semi auto patrol rifles and Remington 870s with the chambers loaded the safeties on. Apparently it's a miracle I haven't blown my brains out or splattered some poor innocent bystander's guts all over the sidewalk.
Sorry, but the truth is that whatever other merits the Mosin-Nagant has, ergonomics is not one of them. The bolt handle is too short and too far forward, the straight stock is not as comfortable to use as the semi-pistol grip type of a Lee-Enfield or Mauser 98, and the safety sucks from the standpoint of ease of use. Accurate, reliable, and tough the M-N might be, but it's a clunky, rather crude weapon, and I've never felt the desire to own one, despite the low price. It's also interesting to note that in 1918, when the allies sent an (ultimately unsuccessful) expeditionary force -- the Polar Bear Expedition -- to Russia to intervene in the Russian civil war and aid the White forces against the Reds, the 5000 American troops, who were used to their M1917 Enfields, and Springfields, were armed with Mosin-Nagants that had originally been made in the US under contract to the czarist government. This was done to simplify logistics, and enable the allied expedition to operate more easily with White Russian forces. The Americans, who had their own rifles to compare the Mosins to, hated them. The British, who were also re-equipped with Mosin-Nagants in the UK before heading to Russia, had a similar reaction.
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sansone
Member
1903-A3 or k98 for me
I love the Finn M 39 for its accuracy and heavy .30 cal and cheap surprise . But the Swiss K 31 is even more accurate considering when they were made. The K 98 and my Yugo M 24/47 are not to be left behind too. They are built so rugged, and whats not to like the 8mm is a heavy hitter as well. Lastly i like the Enfield No 4 .303 Brit. A mild recoiling rifle , great for close in hog hunting. Its like the British version of the .30 30 caliber known all over the British empire during its reign.
Calibre44
Member
Gottahaveone
Member
Much as I love my Mosins, I have to go with the Lee-Enfield as well. I own both and the choice is pretty clear.....
My choice...
Is the 1903A3, more for sentimental reasons than anything else.
In the big war, my dad "carried" a Browning M1919 30cal machine gun. Most guys in his infantry unit used the M1 Garand and he said they're a great rifle. But the snipers used the 1903A3 for long range "precision work."
Is the 1903A3, more for sentimental reasons than anything else.
In the big war, my dad "carried" a Browning M1919 30cal machine gun. Most guys in his infantry unit used the M1 Garand and he said they're a great rifle. But the snipers used the 1903A3 for long range "precision work."
tahunua001
Member
my milsurp collection is still young but between
Savage Enfield No4 MK1*
english enfield No4 MK1(45ACP, sporterized)
Longbranch No4 MK1*(admittedly my brothers, sporterized)
Springfield 1903(made in 1912)
remington 1903A4(made in 1944)
Izhevsk 91/30(1944)
Izhevsk 91/30(1944) sporterized
between all ofthe above it is a non contest, Enfield NO4 MK1* is the best IMHO. they have the best triggers, the smoothest actions, the highest capacity added with the ability to swap mags, good balance and they aren't 5 feet long.
springfield gets an honorable mention for comfortability but they get a serious deduction for the no go, bolt stop on the follower that wont let you close the bolt after the last round, a good idea for trench warfare to make sure soldiers weren't just clicking on a empty chamber while guns are blasting in both ears, not that great for a modern target rifle.
mosin nagants are by far the worst I've owned. I bought two with the sole intention of modernizing one and keeping the other military configuration. there really is no decent way to sporterize them and the tool marks are atrocious. the actions are cheesy, gritty, and just plain hard to actuate and the triggers are the heaviest of all milsurps I've tried to fire which make 3 MOA sound like an unachievable goal. yes they are cheap and are a cheap alternative to spending $2 every time you squeeze your enfield trigger but that's about all they are good for.
that's just my take on the american, rusky, canadian, and brit rifles, you can take that for what it's worth.
Savage Enfield No4 MK1*
english enfield No4 MK1(45ACP, sporterized)
Longbranch No4 MK1*(admittedly my brothers, sporterized)
Springfield 1903(made in 1912)
remington 1903A4(made in 1944)
Izhevsk 91/30(1944)
Izhevsk 91/30(1944) sporterized
between all ofthe above it is a non contest, Enfield NO4 MK1* is the best IMHO. they have the best triggers, the smoothest actions, the highest capacity added with the ability to swap mags, good balance and they aren't 5 feet long.
springfield gets an honorable mention for comfortability but they get a serious deduction for the no go, bolt stop on the follower that wont let you close the bolt after the last round, a good idea for trench warfare to make sure soldiers weren't just clicking on a empty chamber while guns are blasting in both ears, not that great for a modern target rifle.
mosin nagants are by far the worst I've owned. I bought two with the sole intention of modernizing one and keeping the other military configuration. there really is no decent way to sporterize them and the tool marks are atrocious. the actions are cheesy, gritty, and just plain hard to actuate and the triggers are the heaviest of all milsurps I've tried to fire which make 3 MOA sound like an unachievable goal. yes they are cheap and are a cheap alternative to spending $2 every time you squeeze your enfield trigger but that's about all they are good for.
that's just my take on the american, rusky, canadian, and brit rifles, you can take that for what it's worth.
Ignition Override
Member
shep854:
I have two #5 "Jungles" (Faz. and "Malaysian"). If you sit in an upright position the recoil seems to me no worse than with my Yugo 8mm Mauser.
My height is 5'11" and have skinny shoulders.
If you stand and raise the arm in a bit of a "chicken wing", this helps to reduce recoil, compared to a lowered elbow.
In the cases where people can't adjust to the recoil, a cheap 1" slip on pad takes care of it.
As for accuracy, my all-original #5s are about as accurate as my various (four) #4/Mk. 1s at 120 yards, all of which have good lands with 4/5-groove rifling.
PaulKersey3: You might enjoy the handiness and power of this package (or the Spanish FR8). Look at how much people pay now for the Ruger Scout Rifle.
I have two #5 "Jungles" (Faz. and "Malaysian"). If you sit in an upright position the recoil seems to me no worse than with my Yugo 8mm Mauser.
My height is 5'11" and have skinny shoulders.
If you stand and raise the arm in a bit of a "chicken wing", this helps to reduce recoil, compared to a lowered elbow.
In the cases where people can't adjust to the recoil, a cheap 1" slip on pad takes care of it.
As for accuracy, my all-original #5s are about as accurate as my various (four) #4/Mk. 1s at 120 yards, all of which have good lands with 4/5-groove rifling.
PaulKersey3: You might enjoy the handiness and power of this package (or the Spanish FR8). Look at how much people pay now for the Ruger Scout Rifle.
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tahunua001
Member
^^^my younger brother has a bubba no4 with a no5 bolt and synthetic sporter stock, you would think that they would kick like a mule but those carbines are surprisingly gentle 
mljdeckard
Member
I eventually want to collect all of them, but I would start with an 03-A3.
The "wandering zero" is a (MYTH) I have (NEVER) had a problem with mine being right-on every time..............
WYOMan
Member
I love Mausers, always have. Especially the Swede's. But, I would vote for the Enfield. Rugged, reliable, accurate, the actions are smooth and fast, they have good sights, and 10 rounds beats 5. NOW! Imagine an Enfield in 6.5X55, that would be awesome I must say.
wlewisiii
Member
Got an email from SAMCO this morning. Seems they imported a handful of Enflield No2 MKIV's converted to .22LR from .410. $595 - $695, so there's an interesting option for you all.
Billy Shears
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Excuse me, but just because it has never happened to your gun does not make it a myth. It just means it's never happened with your gun. Your ONE gun. This is no different than saying: "I've never been mugged, so muggers are a myth."
If it's a myth, I sure wish you could explain to me why British Armorer and Author Peter Laidler who actually worked on the No.5 Enfield, wrote:
“I asked the other Armourers in Malaya, especially the LEP (locally enlisted) Chinese and Malays (known as MOR’s …, Malayan Other Ranks) and they all knew about the rifles going off zero but in the short ranges that they were used, it was academic. So in Malaya they stayed...
Oh, yes. Back to No5’s. Some of them just wouldn’t zero so they’d be examined and if necessary, re-barreled or just stripped for spares or scrapped. some were as good as gold. I never did get to the bottom of why they had a wandering zero problem. Just theories but they certainly did. Whether YOURS has or not is a bit academic but while I don’t think it had a bad name, it certainly wasn’t a myth.”
The probable answer to why your no. 5 has never wandered off zero is that, as Laidler's quote indicated, the ones that were problematic were either repaired, or if the problem could not be cured, were scrapped or used for spare parts. The result is that the ones that have survived to pass into civilian hands are mostly the good ones that never gave any trouble. But the problem was most certainly not a myth, and has been documented by several firearms historians.
Blackfox893
Member
I own two Mosins, with my M29 Finnish being a pretty good shot besides the fact it had a rusted bore, but penetration oil and 20 rounds of non corrosive shot through it have done much to get rid of the ruddy rust. The finnish gets about 3 MOA when I'm sitting, about 2.5 when I am on the bench rest. My mil surp 91/30 does about 3-4, but accurizing may be in order someday.
I also have a 1915 Gewehr 98 which does about 2.7 on average bench rest with turk ammo.
My P17 enfield needs some tuning before an accurate figure can be worked out.
I also have a 1915 Gewehr 98 which does about 2.7 on average bench rest with turk ammo.
My P17 enfield needs some tuning before an accurate figure can be worked out.
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Don't know how to use it hey?
How to set and unset the Mosin Nagant Rifle safety with ease
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4Z1-ucpPMg
Maverick223
Member
Knowing how to use it has nothing to do with it being a PITA...or are you trying to tell me that it is as easy to operate as the 3-pos. Mauser safety or SMLE lever? Some are easier than others, but I've never seen one that is serviceable for battle or field use.
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