Better powder than Bullseye for 9mm and 45acp.

[mcb]

This is not meant to be off topic. It does show a problem with any fast powder. One of the traditional target loads for 38 Special is a minimum charge of Bullseye with 148gr. WC bullet. Try to see this charge in 38 Special case in a 550B. Need to go slow loading that one.

Addendum: If I recall correctly two of the oldest power we currently use are Bullseye and Unique. Yes, there have been changes over the years. Years of use may have to do with so many pet loads.

I run a powder check station on my 650 for just this reason. I believe I could triple charged a 45 ACP case with Titegroup and it would not overflowed the empty case. You still got to look and be vigilant but a powder check station is a nice double check.

 

[Mowgli Terry]

Powder Check: Right on that one. Don't think there's an option that allows this on a 550B using Dillon dies. If it were possible it would have been a done deal here long ago.Suggestions appreciated.

 

[someguy2800]

Bullseye is right at home in 45 acp but I don’t like it so much in 9mm. I tried titegroup in 9mm and found it extreamly accurate but didn’t like the super low fill density and it makes the gun hot. For one powder to use in both I would try BE86. It’s a slightly slower version of bullseye, hence the name. Should work better in 9mm and just as well as bullseye in 45.

 

[Mowgli Terry]

How about Power Pistol for heavier loads?

 

[Dudedog]

I really like WSF in 9mm, works well medium to MAX, not as much velocity on top as some others like BE86
Works decent in .45
For .45 i generally prefer a faster powder AA#2. HP38/W231.
Heard some good things about Alliant's new Sport Pistol but haven't tried it yet.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

For range ammo with both I'm a big fan of W231. I use a lot of W231 for both especially with Cast bullets.

Unfortunately the 45 CAL and the 9mm Lugar are very different cartridges so one powder for both doesn't work well. It works but one of the other will suffer. For full power loads in both I was going to recommend AA#5 but recent tests have me thinking W572 will be a better choice.

 

[Mowgli Terry]

How about Unique?

 

[Toprudder]

I think it depends on what type of loads you want. If you want close to full-throttle loads in 45acp, then I would suggest BE86 for both 45 and 9mm. If you want reduced recoil loads in 45, then I would seriously consider using one powder for 45 and another for 9mm.

BE86 will work with reduced loads in 45, but it will burn a little dirty, IMHO. Not any worse than Bullseye, though. And in 9mm, BE86 works great.

I like to load reduced recoil loads in 45, and my favorite powder for that is Clays.

In my opinion, Titegroup is a very economical powder and performs well in both 45 and 9mm. I think it is cleaner than Bullseye even in 45. I've never noticed it heating up my guns that much, but then I don't blast 200 rounds through the same gun without stopping, I generally take several guns and alternate between them, so the heat buildup is not something that I would notice. The case fill could be an issue, but a lot of powders can be double charged, it is just not as noticeable with Titegroup.

Having said all that, I have several pounds of Titegroup on hand, and have not loaded any of it in a couple of years.

 

[Mowgli Terry]

Thanks, I'll look to BE86. Rather than Titegroup I'm going to stick with Bullseye. The AAC #5 works very well in the 9mm. Recently more #5 and #9 is used. Being on a fixed income tends to influence extensive research :-( . I've never considered heating up a handgun an issue. Headed for an informal Bullseye match in an hour. The load is 4 grains of Bullseye and a 200 gr. Lee semi-wad cutter. This makes for a decent combination. For the 38 Special its an old Lyman 150 gr. wadcutter w/o bevel. The charge is 3grs of Bullseye. For a heavy load the 45ACP charge is bumped up. Not disagreeing just sharing information. Thanks again for your sharing.

 

[Blue68f100]

WST is 100 times cleaner than BE at reduced BE loads (650-700 fps). The reason I say this, was due to a comparison at the range. I had shot 100 rounds through my SS 1911 and it had very little carbon residue on it. The guy shooting next to me put one mag through his SS 1911 and the whole front of the gun was black. I use it in the 45 acp but have not worked any BE loads for the 9mm with it.

 

[Toprudder]

Keep in mind that part of "burns dirty" has to do with how well the case expands to form a gas seal. 45acp is a low pressure round, and if you are not loading towards the upper end of the charge range for a given powder, you may not get a good gas seal and this will allow gases to blow around the case and into the action of the gun. If you want lower velocity and recoil, better to go with a faster burning powder loaded mid to upper charge range than to go with a slower burning powder loaded at the low end.

 

[Kaldor]

TiteGroup for heavier bullets like 147s and 230s
CFE Pistol for 115s and 185s.

There are other powders, this is just what I use. The 147s and 230s are really light easy to shoot. I load my 115s and 185s pretty fast, and CFE does a great job for me there.

 

[Varminterror]

If I were to only have ONE auto pistol powder, and it wasn’t Bullseye, it would be Power Pistol.

 

[Kingcreek]

I like 231, burns clean, meters well, and accurate.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

I got a bargain on some Maxam CSB-1. Not all that common but it is working well for me in 45 and 9mm. Its meters well, doesn't seem to burn too hot and it's not terribly dirty. Worth a try if you can find it.

 

[thomas15]

Do that math, double the cost of your propellant makes only a marginal change to the price per round since you use so little powder in pistol ammo. The biggest cost driver is the cost of the bullet.

This is of course a very accurate statement. This is why I have to shrug my shoulders when complaints are fielded over the price of N320 for 9mm loads.

WST is 100 times cleaner than BE at reduced BE loads (650-700 fps).

I use literally every powder available for 9mm. Personally, and I'm not the measure of all things, I admit that, but I stay away from Bullseye and Unique. I use, for 9mm more WST than any other. My least favorite is PP but do use it. Too loud and flashy and I'm sort of shy.

 

[Mowgli Terry]

More revolver caliber loads are showing up using Powder Pistol. Wider acceptance. I have a hard time getting wrapped around the flash business. Stuff works great for me in 40 S&W, 357 SIG and 10mm. Works good for me means works good for me. YMMV

 

[powwowell]

I prefer HP-38/Win231 over Titegroup, Bullseye and Unique. It does a great job for me in 45 ACP, 45 Colt, 9mm, .380 ACP and.38 Special. 4.8 grains under a 158 grain plated bullet, in .357 Mag is a nice plinking load. HP-38/Win231 is NOT the powder to get the maximum out of .357. Never tried them in 40 S&W. For my shooting, I don't see me trying anything else. Well, BE86 maybe?

 

[Mowgli Terry]

This is my experience: I'm still puzzled by all this dirt from Bullseye, Sure enough they are others that run cleaner. I only shot sixty 45 ACP rounds in today's informal match. Plus forty or so in 38 Special. My loads were cast bullets lubed with 50/50 or similar using WW brass and CCI primers. Nothing exotic. Guns ran well-better than me. A fast cleaning took care of the residue, Gave 231 a try in the past but saw no benefit over Bullseye. Used some #2. Good stuff but no benefit over Bullseye. All this is personal...not intended as a cosmic rule. It's just my experience such as it is.

 

[frankmako]

I like aa#5 for 45 acp and 9 mm.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

I have to shrug my shoulders when complaints are fielded over the price of N320 for 9mm loads.

No complaints from me about Vihtavuori, they make good powders, but it isn't 10 or 12 dollars a pound better than a lot of others.

 

[PhillySoldier]

• Titegroup
• Power Pistol
• CFE
• WSF

Ive been ransom rest testing the above different powders w a 9mm the last couple months. Most were pretty close in shot group size; with a slight edge given to Power Pistol. Though I think the bang and flash with PP are a bit harsh.

The only real loser seems to be Titegroup which figures since that seems the most popular choice. When I first tested with it, it was with 124g plated projectiles (two brands) and some cheaper brass. 10 round shot group size at 25 yards averaged 5-6". Testing again with better brass and 115 fmj's - groups averaged 2.5". Much better than the first test but still near double the results ive gotten from the other three powders. Also while looking at the load data for it; there is only a 23 fps velocity difference from the min and max velocities for it. Most of us will have SD'
s larger than that. I just dont see why this is such a popular choice. Prior to testing, this was my regularly used powder.

 

[Mowgli Terry]

OK, don't throw rocks. I had run some loads through the chronograph using Lee 358-158 flat nose bullet with 231 on 10/16/2016. I had borrowed the club Ransom rest. The handgun was a 6" M19 Smith. This was simply a bad 231 load with poor accuracy. The ES was excessive 96.39,138.3 and 106.3. This accuracy and numbers Performance on that day for 231 cooled my enthusiasm to continue further experimentation. No figures on the load of 3gr. of Bullseye with the Lyman 358495-150 gr WC. That load shot well on that day in that revolver. Odds are that another shooter will post opposite results with 231. All this goes to show, for me, reloading, in many aspects, is an art not a science. Best to all-keep shooting!

 

[Texas10mm]

In the .45 ACP my goto powder is WST. Soft shooting, low charge weight, and it smells good. Second choice would be Ramshot Competition. My standard load for the .45 ACP is a cast 200 gr SWC over 4.4 gr WST or 4.0 of the Competition.

For the 9mm I haven't settled on a favorite powder yet. Been trying a few. Still have the Winchester 244 and 572 to try.

 

[thomas15]

No complaints from me about Vihtavuori, they make good powders, but it isn't 10 or 12 dollars a pound better than a lot of others.

Yes true, N320 for example is a good powder but not that good that it should cost so much. My former comment was not an endorsement of N320 or any particular smokeless gunpowder rather to weigh in on the relative cost factor of powder and why I think it silly to get our undergarments all balled up over retail powder costs for handgun loads.