Bill introduced to ban the FN FiveseveN & 5.7x28mm

[Nosferatu]

http://fivesevenforum.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=30

H.R.1136
Title: To protect the Nation's law enforcement officers by banning the Five-seveN Pistol and 5.7 x 28mm SS190 and SS192 cartridges, testing handguns and ammunition for capability to penetrate body armor, and prohibiting the manufacture, importation, sale, or purchase of such handguns or ammunition by civilians.
Sponsor: Rep Engel, Eliot L. [NY-17] (introduced 3/7/2005) Cosponsors (1)
Latest Major Action: 3/7/2005 Referred to House committee. Status: Referred to the House Committee on the Judiciary.


Get those emails/snail mail/phones going. More crap from our Liberal friends in NY.

 

[whm1974]

So I guess that the AR-15 pistols as well as 223 rem ammo will be banned as well? what about TC single shot pistols in rifle calibers?

-Bill

 

[Nosferatu]

While the text of the bill hasn't been updated/released yet, it seems they are specifically going for the FiveseveN and the 5.7x28. I don't think anything else will be affected.

Armor piercing ammo has been banned for quite some time now. This is to get rid of ALL 5.7x28, not just AP.

 

[mbs357]

What does the JHP 5.7mm do against armor?

 

[PMDW]

Good thing I just bought one.

 

[nico]

What does the JHP 5.7mm do against armor?

I'm pretty sure it does the same thing any other pistol ammo does; make the recipient sore but usually doesn't penetrate. One of the big points in the argument against this foolishness is that the ammo for the 5.7 that can pierce body armor isn't legal.

 

[Ivy Mike]

time to call local congress-critter.

FYI, the SS192 has already been defined as a non-ap round and the SS190 isn't available to us serfs as it is an AP round.

Oh, certain 9mm rounds will also get through armor. Will they ban that too? What about the millions of CZ-52's?

 

[mbs357]

I figured that since it was JHP that it'd do poorly against armor (as far as penetrating it).
Just about every round will hurt you even if it doesn't penetrate.
I also remember the descussion about the other ammo, it's not AP, it's just FMJ...it's just very fast and pointy.

 

[Darkmind]

Man I knew I should have picked one up with my tax return.

 

[Antjo]

PMDW Good thing I just bought one.

Ha, I was going to, but ammo is $25/box and probably will be 2-4x as much in a year, and I can't get it anywhere. Rather have something I can enjoy shooting.

 

[PMDW]

I didn't buy it to shoot. I bought it so when the price goes up to 3 times what it is now, I can sell it and make some money.

 

[Third_Rail]

The public honestly doesn't care about this pistol... and we outnumber the antis.


Call, write, whatever. It won't pass if we all do our part.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Guys, if this bill passes it affects a LOT more than just the 5.7

testing handguns and ammunition for capability to penetrate body armor, and prohibiting the manufacture, importation, sale, or purchase of such handguns or ammunition by civilians.

Can anybody here think of a dozen commonly available types of ammo that will penetrate soft body armor? Even if we limit it to handguns, guns like the Thompson Contender mean that the most common ammo in America would go the way of the dodo.

For all practical purposes this is the same really bad bill proposed by Kennedy as an amendment to the lawsuit reform bill last March - the only difference is that this is a lot more broad in its scope.

 

[benEzra]

H.R.1136
Title: To protect the Nation's law enforcement officers by banning the Five-seveN Pistol and 5.7 x 28mm SS190 and SS192 cartridges, testing handguns and ammunition for capability to penetrate body armor, and prohibiting the manufacture, importation, sale, or purchase of such handguns or ammunition by civilians.

This is much broader than just the FiveSeven (which won't even penetrate level II armor with the commercially available loads, never mind Level IIIA).

 

[Joejojoba111]

HOLY ???? does anyone find it scary that the POLICE now have legislative power?! I mean, ok so the President had the ability to get people to introduce legislation for him, but no way should police be able to get legislation they want introduced. That's SOO freaking against the rules! Division of powers! This is that slippery slope they talk about

 

[flatrock]

What does the JHP 5.7mm do against armor?

The BATF has ruled that the ammo is not armor piercing.

I suspect it might penetrate a level IIA vest, which a number of other handgun rounds will also penetrate, and the other handgun rounds are likely to be more damaging to the target.

It appears it will not penetrate a level II or level IIIA vest.

However these popliticans and anti-gun organizations are more than happy to take advantage of the public's lack of knowledge about vests and firearms to make this gun sound especially dangerous.

They will keep trying to ban firearms one type at a time until there's nothing left.

 

[Nosferatu]

It's not just the gun they are going after, it's the ammunition too. I think they would be just as happy if the round got banned even if the gun didn't. This would effectivly ban the gun without stomping on the 2A.

 

[Beren]

I really, really wish they hadn't done this. Now I'm going to have to go buy one, AND a PS-90, just because 5.7mm is- the current "victim" of the anti-sanity lobby.

 

[Dbl0Kevin]

HOLY ???? does anyone find it scary that the POLICE now have legislative power?!

What in the heck are you talking about? The police have no legislative power and did not introduce anything. Congressmen introduced this bill just like any other bill. Any constituency has the power to contact Congress and possibly have a bill introduced related to their concern. Think you need to take a deep breath there and relax a bit.

 

[tyme]

Dbl0, I think the implication of Joejo's post is that the police should not be able to raise issues for legislators to legislate. They should not be able to make public speeches about particular "crime problems", nor should they be able to suggest anything to congresscritters.

The PEOPLE's wishes are what legislators should act on (as long as the wishes are in accord with our republican system of government and the Constitution). The wishes of various LE entities are irrelevant. Allowing them to dominate the rhetoric on an issue in the press borders on criminal. The government is not here to serve the executive branch and its wishes.

If the PEOPLE don't get worked up over an issue, why should LE agencies get any ink on that issue?

 

[Dbl0Kevin]

The PEOPLE's wishes are what legislators should act on

Are law enforcement officers not people?

 

[LiquidTension]

Yes, LEOs are people. In this case they are acting in a professional capacity, not as individual citizens - that is the problem.

RCBS makes dies for 5.7 (over $100), bullets are available...don't know about brass. The danger with this legislation is its scope, as mentioned above, and the fact that the pistols are pretty rare so few people are getting worked up about it. If they tried this with CZ-52s (by name) more people would be upset. Yes, I realize that the wording includes TCs, CZ-52s, and several other handguns and ammunition. But by only naming the 5.7, they're hoping to sneak this under the radar. Hopefully some of the less stupid congress people will point this out and shut this horrid piece of legislation down.

 

[tyme]

No, I'm sorry. (They are people, but they are not part of The People -- some of their rights should be restricted) Public service has rich personal and philosophical rewards. In other respects, it should be a heavy burden, not an elite club. I think part of that burden should be lack of free speech. Why? ...because public officials often end up manipulating public opinion, which is totally backwards.

Legislators may need freedom of speech to communicate with their constituents, but I can't think of a good reason for executive-branch employees to have freedom of speech. If they have something important to say, it should be to a congressional oversight committee.

 

[Dbl0Kevin]

So much for everyone being equal. Interesting how some people complain that LEO's think they're super citizens, then other people claim that we can't even have freedom of speech.

 

[MudPuppy]

While it is okay for Officer Bob to say "Congresscritter, Please ban this gun and ammo" it is NOT okay for the Bob City PD, as a department, to endorse any legislation. (IMO)

Even okay for the "brotherhood of leos" as a private organization, but most certainly not the government entity to do so.