Blink Of An Eye

[Good Ol' Boy]

This is another one of John's videos and although it is a LE encounter it offers some valuable lessons for civilians that carry.

 

[Demi-human]

I'd rather take a speeding ticket than two to the chest. God bless our police officers.

 

[scaatylobo]

That was FAST, and no real reason to think it was a "gun" day.

 

[herrwalther]

And just think. The day for that officer could have gun much MUCH worse if that guy had decided to shoot that AR instead of trying to use it as a club.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

Yes to both posts above, for sure.

Something else to keep in mind for those that CCW, although the second shot the LEO fired may have been warranted for HIM, it's unlikely that would be the case for a civilian. Once the attacker started to flee, as a CCW'er it would probably look pretty bad if LEO's showed up on the scene and there was a hole in the back of the attacker and he was that far away. Again, just something to keep in mind.

But the speed at which events happen is what's really the focus here. Imagine trying to get your concealed weapon out as fast as the officer in the video did. I know for a fact that I wouldn't be able to do that. And training aside, that's an ode to OC. There is no question that it's quicker to draw from an uncovered OWB carry.

 

[entropy]

There is no such thing as a "routine" traffic stop.

As for the CC vs. OC, generally not going to happen that way. the correct response would of course be not to stop. There would be no reason as a civilian to be in that situation. This was a "I would rather die than go to jail" incident, and unless you go around pulling Citizen's arrests, isn't an issue.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

the correct response would of course be not to stop. There would be no reason as a civilian to be in that situation. This was a "I would rather die than go to jail" incident, and unless you go around pulling Citizen's arrests, isn't an issue.

I disagree. Yes that particular situation is not going to happen with a CCW. However, the topic is the speed at which things unfold. A CCW'er could absolutely be "jumped" with the same surprise that the officer was. Draw and one shot (or more) as you're backing away and falling as the attacker is coming at you would likely be justified. But sitting back up after the fact with the attacker clearly running away would likely NOT be reason for a CCW'er to fire more shots.

As I mentioned a LEO has a different duty than civilians who carry for SD. For civi's shooting to stop the threat is one thing, shooting when they are clearly retreating is another.

 

[entropy]

I didn't mean not to stop shooting, I meant not to stop at the scene at all. Just drive by. Yes, it's possible for that to happen to a civilian. It's also possible North Korean paratroopers might start floating down into the middle of town too. We can' t all live in condition orange/red all the time.
You are absolutely correct that shooting at him after he tossed the AR and ran would not bode well in court for a CCW'r.
The officer would have had more time to react of he'd have pie'd the the rear of the SUV.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

I meant not to stop at the scene at all. Just drive by. Yes, it's possible for that to happen to a civilian

You are missing my point completely. I'm not talking about a civi stopping on the side of the road for a parked vehicle, as shown in the vid. I'm talking about walking home in a city, or walking from a grocery store to your car in BFE USA, or whatever other scenario you want to portray a CCW realistically encountering, and having someone jump you unexpectedly. The speed at which things happen is the topic here. And I just mentioned in regards to the video what probably should not happen were this a CCW situation in a realistic setting.

 

[herrwalther]

But the speed at which events happen is what's really the focus here. Imagine trying to get your concealed weapon out as fast as the officer in the video did. I know for a fact that I wouldn't be able to do that. And training aside, that's an ode to OC. There is no question that it's quicker to draw from an uncovered OWB carry.

Couple with the fact that the officer is likely using a Level 3 retention holster, as most police departments require for duty weapons. This was a very fast draw. I would put drawing from IWB with a light shirt around the same speed as drawing from a L3 OWB duty holster compared to a L1 or L2 OWB holster.

 

[SSN Vet]

Back in the stone ages, I used to hang out at a local arcade with a group of my friends. It was near the high school and was technically in a "good" part of town, but was apparently being taken over by some "boys from the hood"....

While playing pool with my buddy, we were jumped by four hoods and got our a$$e$ kicked and thrown out. The whole thing went down so fast I was stunned. Lack of situational awareness on our part, but these guys came marching in the door knowing exactly what they were there to do.

All I can say is that if anyone ever slaps a pool queue out of your hand, you've just been disarmed.

It's very hard to play catch up when someone else has seized the initiative.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

That was very impressive performance by the officer.

 

[TomJ]

If there's an area of training I've neglected it's practicing my draw, and shame on me for not doing so. This is a great reminder to do so.

 

[JohnKSa]

If you carry concealed, be sure to practice while wearing your normal cover garment. Getting a cover garment tangled up with the gun during a draw is comical if you're not in danger and using an unloaded firearm. It's potentially tragic otherwise.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Couple with the fact that the officer is likely using a Level 3 retention holster, as most police departments require for duty weapons. This was a very fast draw. I would put drawing from IWB with a light shirt around the same speed as drawing from a L3 OWB duty holster compared to a L1 or L2 OWB holster.

If that cop had any brains at all he at least partially disabled the retention device before he even got out of the vehicle.

 

[shafter]

If that cop had any brains at all he at least partially disabled the retention device before he even got out of the vehicle.

Why would he? From the information we have available there is no reason to think that the deputy thought this was any more than a stranded motorist. Cops go into dangerous situations all the time without disabling the retention on their holster because they know that if they end up grappling with someone the retention may save their lives.

As this deputy has demonstrated, with practice you can be extremely quick with a Level 3 holster. Partially disabling the retention can mess with your muscle memory if you need to draw quickly.

 

[herrwalther]

If that cop had any brains at all he at least partially disabled the retention device before he even got out of the vehicle.

Possibly. No way to tell. Some departments can get very strict on policies regarding indexing of firearms without due cause. When the officer pulled this vehicle over he for sure ran the license plate number. If central dispatch reported back with warrants for the registered owner that would be due cause for indexing a duty weapon. Or if he saw some odd movements in the vehicle. Again, no way to tell.

 

[Elkins45]

I'm trying to imagine the situation where I would think it's a good idea to throw an unloaded AR-15 at a policeman. I'm not having any success...

Yes, that was an impressively fast draw.