Bolt Rifle suggestions

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

Lol Kachok, everything you mention CAN be remedied by a little TLC. I did a trigger-job to mine that just makes it a dream. But it's an M44, so it isn't four-feet long. I'll have to do a write-up...

 

[KAC1911]

Well, never thought this was going to end up like this. I can see you guys have a very passionate view on what you like and deem better. Again all subjective to individual likes and dislikes and needs. I appreciate all the input. It has opened my eyes to more choices than I realized. May take a little longer to make a choice now but at least I've learned more about this whole subject. Thanks again.

Kenny

 

[fpgt72]

Ehh, whatever guys. I like my mosin. Works just fine for what I need it to do and what everybody else needs theirs to, and does so with pretty inexpensive ammo and a lot of fun. The rifle costs $100-don't expect it to perform like something that costs 3 to 10 times that much.

The fun thing about these rifles is that they can....and that just gets the "these things are all junk" groups panties in a supreme twist.

Bottom line is if you get yourself a "good" rifle, something that is true for any surplus rifle....it will shoot better then you. And if you do want to lock the thing in a vice side by side with as equal footing as you can get, they all shoot very well....well enough that MILLIONS have been made to protect the country they are made for.

 

[TurtlePhish]

well enough that MILLIONS have been made to protect the country they are made for.

Not to mention doing that protecting since 1891! I'd like to see another rifle with that track record

 

[Kachok]

The fun thing about these rifles is that they can....and that just gets the "these things are all junk" groups panties in a supreme twist.

Bottom line is if you get yourself a "good" rifle, something that is true for any surplus rifle....it will shoot better then you. And if you do want to lock the thing in a vice side by side with as equal footing as you can get, they all shoot very well....well enough that MILLIONS have been made to protect the country they are made for.

I think the Russian winter protected them more then the rifles did I spent three years over there, and I can tell you for a fact that is killer cold. Russian military doctrine was more about volume of fire rather then precision, well that and the whole "burn everything and move east" strategy. One of these days someone will wise up and attack them from the east. LOL

 

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

Well, they're better equipped now, so I think they'd be better off.

 

[Ignition Override]

fpgt72:
I really enjoyed your comment about people who would sporterize a K98 etc.

Several months ago a moderator, former Navy guy, at the "Surplusrifle" site was very rude in both language (he said "JACKWAD") and choice of using all capital letters in red towards a similar topic which was created by a member. It was both very crude and totally uncalled for.

Apparently, at that website some people have very thin skins, or guilt regarding people who ask why they are sporterized (mostly about guns which were in good or better condition).

 

[Scimmia]

Wow, this thread really did get out of hand. To all of the Mosin bashers, remember what the OP asked for:

...inexpensive military bolt rifle that there is a abundance of inexpensive surplus ammo

Right now, the Mosin Nagant is pretty much the only gun that fits that description. Kachok seemed to be trying to pick a fight with post #18 and succeeded. You can say that 30-06 > 7.62x54R and you'd be right most of the time, but you're dead wrong when you consider what the OP was asking for. When "a abundance of inexpensive surplus ammo" is a requirement, 7.62x54R wins hands down. The statements about stamped steel, "horrible corrosive junk", and sticking bolts just show a distinct lack of knowledge of the firearm in question.

I believe the Russians had the most casualties in WWII...

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No I think it showed how behind their country was in terms of military technology. The only thing they had going in their favor was population and geography.

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So what's your point? My point was that had they been armed w/ M-1 Garands, 1903 Springfields, or even Mauser rifles they would have likely had less casualties.

1948CJ2A, do a bit of reading about Russian tactics of WWII. They were about using untrained soldiers to advance at all costs, overwhelming the enemy and just rolling right over them. This is what caused their casuality rate to be so high, they would rather take a very high casuality rate than stop the attack. Giving them Springfields/Mausers wouldn't have changed that.

Or he's a kid.

..

^ My grandfather used to say "Hire a teenager while they still know everything!"...it may apply here.

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a word of advice. Learn to pick your battles. Listen to your elders. Keep working hard and be open to others opinions.

You know, some of the dumbest things you hear about firearms come from "elders". Who hasn't heard that if you can drop someone by hitting them in the pinky with a .45? Dumb kids often make dumb "elders". Anyone who thinks that simple age makes someone right has to be pretty closed minded. You have to look at each statement for what it is, not just assume someone is right or wrong based on their age. For the record, I'm in my 30s, so I'm kinda in between.

 

[Kachok]

Wow, this thread really did get out of hand. To all of the Mosin bashers, remember what the OP asked for:



Right now, the Mosin Nagant is pretty much the only gun that fits that description. Kachok seemed to be trying to pick a fight with post #18 and succeeded. You can say that 30-06 > 7.62x54R and you'd be right most of the time, but you're dead wrong when you consider what the OP was asking for. When "a abundance of inexpensive surplus ammo" is a requirement, 7.62x54R wins hands down. The statements about stamped steel, "horrible corrosive junk", and sticking bolts just show a distinct lack of knowledge of the firearm in question.

Umm where exactly are you going to correct me??? They are the roughest built rifle I have ever used, (though still functional with some WD40 and a hammer LOL) the surplus 7.62x54R ammo is corrosive and poor quality by every standard we have (though 99 out of 100 rounds still fire) Not starting a war with the Mosin cult, just stating my experience with them. To me only accurate rifles are intresting, and the Mosin in my experience does not fit the bill, if you just want something to go boom get some firecrackers they are even cheaper then surplus ammo As I stated some people find the crude nature of the Mosin appealing, I understand that, but don't feel the same way, I like light compact rifles with crisp triggers and smooth actions.
All that said if I only had a $100 budget and needed a rifle the mosin is about the only thing out there so it wins by default.

 

[Scimmia]

Umm where exactly are you going to correct me??? They are the roughest built rifle I have ever used, (though still functional with some WD40 and a hammer LOL) the surplus 7.62x54R ammo is corrosive and poor quality by every standard we have (though 99 out of 100 rounds still fire) Not starting a war with the Mosin cult, just stating my experience with them.

It's hard to correct someones opinion, and what you stated are opinions. The way you stated them was obviously to provoke a response from those that disagreed, so even if that's not what you intended, it sure appears that you did want to "start a war with the Mosin cult".

As for disputing "facts" that you posted:

A Savage 110 does not weigh 50% less than a Mosin carbine that the OP mentioned. The M38s weigh 7.5 lb vs the 110s 6.75. That's 10% less. Even the full length M91/30s only weigh 8.8 lb, that's 23% less.

30-06 > 7.62x54R - As stated, with the main criteria being a abundance of inexpensive surplus ammo, this is wrong. Surplus 30-06 is roughly 300% higher priced than surplus 7.62x54R and not as plentiful.

Loose fitting stamped steel - I think you're confusing the MN with the AK here, there's no loose fitting stamped steel on a MN.

the bolt sticking so hard you gatta break out the WD40 to break it free - These guns were so packed full of cosmoline that inadequate cleaning does cause problems. Not the fault of the gun design. If you really think that excess cosmoline wasn't the issue here, what exactly in the design do you think caused it?

Yes, the ammo is corrosively primed. So what? It leaves a little bit of potassium salt in the barrel which is easily cleaned out by running a couple of patches soaked in water through it. I don't understand why people have this intense fear of corrosive ammo. I have never had a round fail to fire, either, but your experience may be different.

Let me be clear here, I'm not a huge Mosin fan and I'm not claiming they're anything more than what they are, an inexpensive gun to buy and have fun with. Since that's exactly what the OP asked for, though, ...

 

[Kachok]

The M44 weighs 9lbs bare, Savage light weight hunter is 5.5lbs close enough.
Some of that is opinion other parts are hard fact. The Mosin is a cheaply built design using stamped steel construction for most parts, the ammo is corrosive, and they are well known for not being a highly accurate rifle in modern terms. I don't think I am being unfair to the mosin here. The rifle that jammed was clean, I actually think it was a case failure that caused the super sticky bolt (only happened once), but it is hard to tell when you have to force them out like that.
Why my issue with corrosive ammo? Let me clarify first by saying that I am no mechanical engineer or internation expert on metallurgy but from what I understand the corrosive ammo leaves micro pitting in steel even if it is cleaned quickly.
If cheap ammo is someones only goal get a cheap 22LR, they go bang just like a big bolt gun. To me a rifle is more of a precision tool then what the Mosin brings to the table. Use a good rifle and quality ammo and you get good results.

 

[Scimmia]

The M44 weighs 9lbs bare, Savage light weight hunter is 5.5lbs close enough.

The M44 is only that heavy because of the integral bayonet, not a fair comparison, especially if you want to compare it to the very lightest Savage.

Some of that is opinion other parts are hard fact. The Mosin is a cheaply built design using stamped steel construction for most parts

*sigh* I'm starting to wonder if you've ever seen a Mosin, let alone shot one. One more time for the record: the Mosin Nagant is not made of stamped steel. Seriously, what are you basing this on that you keep saying this over and over even after people point out that you're wrong?

Why my issue with corrosive ammo? Let me clarify first by saying that I am no mechanical engineer or internation expert on metallurgy but from what I understand the corrosive ammo leaves micro pitting in steel even if it is cleaned quickly.

Untrue. The only thing that makes the ammo corrosive is that the potassium chlorate in the primer forms potassium chloride salt when it burn. Salts attract water, and that water will cause corrosion. Nothing in the round itself either before or after it's fired is itself corrosive, so as long as you clean the salt out before it can absorb enough water to cause corrosion, it has no more effect than modern ammo.

If cheap ammo is someones only goal get a cheap 22LR, they go bang just like a big bolt gun.

Then why didn't you just suggest that to begin with, since that's what the OP asked for, instead of suggesting something more expensive by a multiple of 3?

The rifle that jammed was clean, I actually think it was a case failure that caused the super sticky bolt (only happened once), but it is hard to tell when you have to force them out like that.

Fair enough.

 

[Sam1911]

I'm looking to get myself an inexpensive military bolt rifle that there is a abundance of inexpensive surplus ammo.

Anyone remember way back when someone asked THIS QUESTION?

This thread was a disgrace. We have GOT to be better than this.

If you posted something that got deleted, please understand: we WILL be better than this. One way or the other -- capisce?