Bolt vs Semi

[Liquid Metal]

I already own a pump action shotgun. Recently, I have shot a semi-auto shotgun and I am pretty convince that I will be getting one eventually.

When it comes to rifle, what are the advantages/disadvantages bolt action vs semi-auto? If this question has already been asked, please feel free to point me to the previous thread. Thanks

I did get some information from this previous thread:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=551287

 

[tarosean]

When it comes to rifle, what are the advantages/disadvantages bolt action vs semi-auto?

Now-a-Days the only real differences are in the speed department for follow up shots. There are highly accurate and lightweight semis just as there are heavy inaccurate bolt guns.

*I* prefer a bolt over a semi for hunting. Semi over Bolt for Plink/Target.

 

[Redlg155]

Although I use a semi for hunting, the one fault is that you need to use full power or close to full power loads to ensure reliable functioning. An adjustable gas system would help with lower powered loads, but even those have limitations. This can hamper load development or using specialty loads. Try shooting rubber non lethal loads in an auto shotgun and you will know what I mean, or specialty. 22 sans poudre loads in a semi.

 

[Liquid Metal]

Very good point Red.

But wouldn't that also be the same as a semi automatic pistol since it works on the same principle?

 

[meanmrmustard]

Very good point Red.

But wouldn't that also be the same as a semi automatic pistol since it works on the same principle?

Absolutely. Some aenemic rounds won't cycle, case in point is when I use Aguila in my SR22 (just for study sake) and they fail. Subsonics are the same way.

I'm with tarosean: Bolt for hunting, semi for plinking. If I'm trying to reach out and touch a yote from across a bean field, bolt.

 

[jmr40]

What do you want to do with it? For a hunting rifle the bolt is a far better choice. The options in hunting semi's is limited. They are HEAVY, expensive, and limited in the ammo they can shoot. They are getting closer in accuracy and reliability, but still not in the same league as a bolt rifle. At woods ranges they are accurate enough, but for longer range work you are at a distinct disadvantage.

A semi has to shoot ammo that falls within a very narrow range of power in order to cycle properly. A bolt rifle allows the user, especially handloader, to load ammo much lower powered, or considerably faster, that will simply not work in semi's. Many factory loads will not even work with them. Regardless of the ammo, a bolt rifle is far more reliable.

The only 3 real options in hunting semi's are the Remington, Browning, and Benelli. They range in weight from 7 1/4 lbs up to over 8. Add a scope and that will be another 1-1.5 lbs. Even with the lightest possible semi it will be a pig to carry around. Many bolt rifles are well under 7 lbs. Several as light as 5 lbs. The Browning and Benelli sell for around $1,000. The Remington is a few hundred less, but is too inaccurate and unreliable for me to suggest. You can get a very good, lightweight bolt rifle for under $500 that will be 1-3 lbs lighter than a semi. And have a far more accurate, reliable rifle.

If you are looking for a SD rifle, there are many good options and a semi is really the only way to go.

But wouldn't that also be the same as a semi automatic pistol since it works on the same principle?

They don't work on the same principle. The pistol is recoil operated and while it has to have ammo within a certain power range, that range is a lot wider. It can be tweaked somewhat by different weight recoil springs. The semi rifles are gas operated. It is a much different system. Shotguns use gas and inertia systems which can be made to operate over a very wide range of powers. The technology is there to do so with rifles, but none are using it. I think it is possible to build a semi that would be much better than todays offerings, but there simply isn't the demand. The bolt rifle is the prefered chioce among hunters for a very good reason.

 

[Liquid Metal]

It is one of those purchase where I just want to make sure. As shared above, I realized if I was able to turn back time, I would get a semi instead of a pump action after shooting the semi-automatic shotgun. I know most will disagree with me.

So, I am trying to educate the pros and cons by learning. Your post gave more info and insight such as weight and understanding of loads.

This helps in deductive reasoning process:

"Even with the lightest possible semi it will be a pig to carry around."

Thanks

 

[Sam1911]

The only 3 real options in hunting semi's are the Remington, Browning, and Benelli.

This is leaving out the various AR-10 rifles available shooting the .308 Win, and the various hunting-appropriate chamberings of the AR-15 (6.8mm, 6.5 Grendel, .300 Blackout, 7.62x39, and even the better 5.56mm loadings) which often beating the accuracy of many off-the-shelf bolt action rifles.

If you're talking about "traditional" semi-auto hunting rifles (BAR, Rem 740, and so on) then your points hold true. But there are plenty of Stoner pattern rifles (AR-15 and AR-10) in the hunting fields these days, and they will hang with 90% of bolt action hunting rifles, all day, every day.

 

[Liquid Metal]

Just to be fair and clarification basing from jmr40, I am asking in regards to the traditional semi auto like the BAR as he listed.

I am eventually getting an AR10 too which I started in a different thread.

Thanks

 

[Sam1911]

Would you consider the FN-AR (a version of the BAR, of course) to be "traditional?"

 

[jason41987]

difference is semis are always forced to suffer when idiots think legislation is a good idea, bolt actions never do

 

[jrdolall]

From a hunting perspective I would go with a bolt action in a "standard" hunting caliber. 30-06, 270, 308 for deer. There are plenty if different calibers and "black" rifles that will work as well as older military style. I have semi rifles and bolt for hunting but no pump. I virtually never use the semis for hunting.
For plinking I have to agree that I prefer the semi in umpteen calibers.
The only pump firearm I use is a shotgun for turkey hunting. A semi would work as well or better but i have used the pump for many years and it is pretty much always a one shot hunt.

 

[powder]

If you are new into bolt rifles investigate the Remington 700 series as a good platform, which has tuners and aftermarket support to infinity. Some of the best rifle builders in the world still look to it.

Semis-that's a pretty broad field-purpose, range, training wants/needs...? Tons of variables.

Do you re-load?

 

[Art Eatman]

I'll take luck over skill any day, but other than a couple of coup de grace needs, I never have needed that "quick second shot" when messing with Bambi. I'll stick with bolt actions for my "serious" hunting.

About the only semi with which I've hunted has been the Mini 14. I killed a truckload of jackrabbits in Nevada during a humongous population explosion back around 1980, and a fair number of coyotes.

I have a sub-MOA AR set up for varmints, although I haven't done anything much with it, so far.

I dunno. I just like reloading for bolt guns, tailoring the loads for best accuracy.

 

[stubbicatt]

As I get older I find I expend fewer and fewer rounds, and enjoy each one a bit more. I like shooting a bolt action rifle, it brings smiles and discipline. I guess if looked at as a simple tool one can find features of either semi autos or bolt rifles that make one shine in a given task. Speaking only for myself, the sole purpose in me shooting a rifle anymore is simply the joy of doing so. Each will bring a smile to my face, but the bolt rifle is so much easier to clean up afterwards, most usually.

 

[RickMD]

When's the last time you saw a semi-auto at a benchrest match?

 

[dober83]

I don't know where you hunt but here in PA semi's are illegal for hunting. If follow up shots are a concern, get a lever gun. I personally prefer a bolt or break action.

 

[Sam1911]

When's the last time you saw a semi-auto at a benchrest match?

When was the last time you saw a benchrest gun in the hunting fields? Or a "practical" competition? Or, really ANYWHERE but heaved up onto a bench? They're beasts. Not really useful for anything but quite mechanically firing tiny groups.

And many semi-autos can easily match the accuracy of all but the top ~2-3% of bolt rifles.

 

[RickMD]

And many semi-autos can easily match the accuracy of all but the top ~2-3% of bolt rifles.

At my local club we have "benchrest" matches every spring with "hunting" rifles. The rules specify that rifle and scope must weight under nine pounds. We've been doing this for seven years and not one semi-auto has ever come close to taking home the bacon. All things considered the bolt gun has an edge on accuracy over the semi-auto.

If not, why don't you see twenty pound semi-auto's at benchrest matches?

 

[Sam1911]

The rules specify that rifle and scope must weight under nine pounds. We've been doing this for seven years and not one semi-auto has ever come close to taking home the bacon.

Ok. I'd want to see how many shooters are showing up, and with what guns, and what their skill levels are. How many AR-15/AR-10s, or FNARs, have ever showed up at these matches? It could be that bolt actions win because only a handful of modern precision semi-autos have ever been on the line, and that whomever your better shooters are prefer bolt guns.

Or maybe you've really got lots of talent there, bringing the best gear available, and you're really seeing the top 2-3% of bolt rifles beating out the better semis.

No way to make an objective assessment without more info.

All things considered the bolt gun has an edge on accuracy over the semi-auto.

Certainly. The very most accurate rifles are bolt actions. Then there are examples of both semis and other GOOD bolt action rifles which are very accurate, but not quite at the pinnacle. Then there are lots of mediocre guns of all kinds about which no definitive blanket statements regarding accuracy can be made.

 

[300grains]

Semi = you really must like cleaning (thoroughly after 100-200 shots and not only the barrel). Can give you problems in harsh weather conditions. A bolt is more reliable when loading is important like when a bear attacks.

 

[meanmrmustard]

Semi = you really must like cleaning (thoroughly after 100-200 shots and not only the barrel). Can give you problems in harsh weather conditions. A bolt is more reliable when loading is important like when a bear attacks.

But not necessarily faster to load unless you are comparing box fed to say stripper clips. Alot off modern (hell, even 70 year old mil surp bolts) take box mags. I can't say I load a bolt faster than a semi that is mag fed. Can you?

 

[helotaxi]

The only reason that I prefer a bolt action for hunting is that they are significantly lighter than a similarly chambered semi-auto.

As far as accuracy goes, a M1903 is technically legal for High Power Service Rifle last I checked, but everyone shoots an AR. A good semi-auto (AR) will shoot a ragged hole off the bench while the benchrest guns will shoot a relatively clean hole. If you can honestly appreciate that difference in accuracy while hunting, by all means carry a benchrest rifle into the hunting fields. The difference in accuracy these days isn't a valid argument against semis.

To say that bolt actions are immune to politics is naive at best.

 

[meanmrmustard]

The only reason that I prefer a bolt action for hunting is that they are significantly lighter than a similarly chambered semi-auto.

As far as accuracy goes, a M1903 is technically legal for High Power Service Rifle last I checked, but everyone shoots an AR. A good semi-auto (AR) will shoot a ragged hole off the bench while the benchrest guns will shoot a relatively clean hole. If you can honestly appreciate that difference in accuracy while hunting, by all means carry a benchrest rifle into the hunting fields. The difference in accuracy these days isn't a valid argument against semis.

To say that bolt actions are immune to politics is naive at best.

I wouldn't say that the argument is naive, but the ones making the argument.

 

[Kachok]

I value accuracy over all else, qucik follow up shots are great but I prefer not needing them at all. Bolts for me, more reliable, more accurate, more versitle, higher performance, and less expensive. When they invent a 6lbs, sub-moa, remarkably reliable, semi auto for under a grand I will reconsider my stance.