Border crossings hinder training at Ariz. bases

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Desertdog

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Border crossings hinder training at Ariz. bases
Illegal immigrants found on test range
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/a...rder_crossings_hinder_training_at_ariz_bases/

By Karen Schaler, Globe Correspondent | April 7, 2005

MARINE CORPS AIR STATION YUMA, Ariz. -- Marines preparing for combat in Iraq or Afghanistan have lost significant amounts of training time because undocumented immigrants from Mexico have constantly wandered onto a bombing test range in Arizona, according to the commander of this base along the border.

Virtually every Marine squadron headed to Iraq or Afghanistan receives combat training at the Marine Corps Air Station in Yuma, which for nearly 40 miles touches the US-Mexico border in the southwestern corner of Arizona. The Border Patrol's focus in recent years on tightening the border in the eastern part of the state, where volunteer citizens this month have established their own observation posts, has pushed more undocumented immigrants westward.

Since July 2004, the training range has been shut down more than 500 times because of immigrants spotted on the range, causing a loss of more than 1,100 training hours, said Colonel James J. Cooney, the base's commanding officer.

''That's equivalent to almost 46 days of training. We're getting overrun here," he said in an interview. ''Any moment we take away from a Marine's experience base could cost him his life in combat."

Cooney said Marines intercepted more than 1,500 undocumented immigrants on the training range last year and, in the first three months of this year, more than 1,100. Base personnel detain the immigrants and call in Border Patrol agents to pick them up.

''I have to use Marines that aren't trained in that to do that, which puts me at a liability," said Cooney, a Boston College graduate. ''It's completely counterproductive to our whole training operation."

Another big concern, he said, is the potential danger to undocumented immigrants: ''We just don't want them to come here, because we're firing lasers, we're shooting machine guns, we're shooting 209-millimeter cannons, and we're dropping practice bombs, and we don't want to hurt anyone."

Last summer a Marine pilot dropped a practice bomb on a target and seconds later, a few feet away, a small group of illegal immigrants scrambled from underneath a bush and ran down the range. The near miss was caught on a training tape that Cooney has reviewed.

So far the Marines said there have been no deaths of immigrants in the training exercises.

''My overall concern is that we'd have an unfortunate incident out there where we'd inadvertently harm an illegal entrant that we did not spot or see, and that in turn would cause a moratorium on training until we sorted out what exactly happened," said Cooney.

Two other bases in Arizona, one the Army's and another the Air Force's, have experienced similar problems.

At the Army Yuma Proving Ground, near the Marine Corps Air Station but about 30 miles north of the border, an increasing number of undocumented immigrants have invaded military space and disrupted training.

''The smugglers just drive them up the highway and dump them off, and these illegal immigrants stumble right onto our testing range," said Chuck Wullenjohn, spokesman for the Army base.

As one of the largest military installations in the Western world, the Army Yuma Proving Ground is constantly conducting tests for ground forces on artillery and ammunition, including tank rounds, mines, mortars, and helicopter guns.

''Having anyone on this range that doesn't belong here is extremely dangerous," said Wullenjohn. ''The illegal immigrant issue is becoming a bigger problem all the time."

The Air Force said it has had to interrupt exercises with F-16 pilots after undocumented immigrants were spotted on a bombing range east of Gila Bend, north of the border.

''In 2004 we suspended range operations 55 times for a net loss of 122 hours," said Jim Uken, director of the 56th Fighter Wing range management office.

There is some concern that, besides wandering immigrants, foreign terrorists could cross the Mexican border and infiltrate the Arizona bases to conduct intelligence gathering or commit acts of sabotage.

''The potential exists, and that is a key reason we are vigilant about securing our training ranges," Cooney said.

Robert C. Bonner, the commissioner of the Bureau of Customs and Border Protection, said last week when he was visiting Arizona that more than half the undocumented immigrants entering the United States come through the state.

He promised that federal help is on the way.
 
All military live fire exercises should be conducted along the border. Kill two birds with one stone :D
 
Why do I read those words and imagine the directors of training shoving their tongues firmly in cheek as they wrote them, working as hard as they can to make sure more and more high explosive ordinance training is conducted in the vicinity?
 
''My overall concern is that we'd have an unfortunate incident out there where we'd inadvertently harm an illegal entrant that we did not spot or see


To quote one of my favorite presidents:


"The bombing begins in five minutes"
 
When I was working Ordnance Compound Guard duty at MCAS Yuma in '99, they told us (unoficially, obviously) if we saw any illegals on the bomb side of the fence, to waste them.

While it certainly got a chuckle, we only saw somebody once (on the other side of the fence,) and the CoG had more sense than to do anything but call it in.

Oh, and those bombing ranges are actually used by most southwestern bases, (29stumps, Miramar, Pendleton, Luke, NASNI, etc,) not just Yuma. But WTI, (kinda the Air to Ground version of TopGun,) is going on right now, so a lot of the flights are coming from Yuma.
 
All military live fire exercises should be conducted along the border. Kill two birds with one stone
+1

Of course, the southern border of such range should be marked with warning signs in both English and Spanish every 10 feet. Just as a matter of courtesy mind you. If said Illegals ignore said warnings, well, let Mr. Darwin take his toll....
 
So....is it coming down to that quote in Full Metal Jacket from the helicopter scene:

"Get some.....get some....."

"How can you shoot women and children?"

"Easy.....you don't lead them as much" :evil:

Sorry....I'm a little cranky this morning. But if it comes down to our Marines being able to train appropriately or having to worry about illegals getting harmed because they have wandered onto a live fire range.....guess where my concern is?
 
Civilian interlopers are a continuing problem at all DoD test and training ranges both at sea and ashore. Range sweeps are performed before any live-fire event, but illegals are pretty good at hiding. And no, we don't have any desire to kill 'em, legal or not. :rolleyes:

TC
 
Anyone notice they didn't call them "illegals" or anything like that, they called them "undocumented immigrants"?
 
Land mines. Lots of them. And motion activated Ma Deuces. Cure that problem in a hurry! We have the means to stop this illegal flow, but seemingly not the will. Sad.
 
I worked in Range Controll @ Ft. Bliss (A btry, 1st CAS) as my last duty station. We patrolled the ranges constantly. Funny though, we drove camo colored Chevy Blazers with big white Range Controll signs on the side. They must of thought we were imigration cuz we could see them running away, and FAST. Had to call the range cold until we could round em up, what a PITA. We did have big signs up all over in English and Spanish explaining that this area is used for live ordnance, never even slowed em down. I am in the "not so high road" feeling group about this.
 
undocumented immigrants from Mexico have constantly wandered onto a bombing test range in Arizona
And the problem is....................

Maybe they should put up more signs in Spanish :fire:

Greg
 
Assuming they can read...

Ok, use pictograms.

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Ramp up the training excercises to make up for lost time. No apologies.
 

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I am stunned at how little regard some people here have for human life.
so we now think that an illegal alien deserves execution my military personel without trial?

Im all for tightening our border a lot. But I dont particularly want us to shoot on sight someone who MAY be a terrorist, but is in all likelihood just some poor dumb schmuck wanting to make some living. Report them, arrest them, send them back. But indescriminatly killing someone for crossing the border :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
Trapperjohn,
As others have suggested, put up MANY signs in English and Spanish, then continue with the excercises. If they ignore the signs, well...
 
I am truly appalled at some of the attitudes here. For those who advocate the slaughter of men, women and children (and yes, many, many of the illegal border-crossers are young children), I have to wonder if you really believe this is a solution to the problem of illegal immigration. Or does it just make you feel better, knowing that at least we’ve prevented, permanently, a few more illegals from entering our sacred land? “Get some?†You’re sick. Invading our country? Hardly. Looking for jobs and a future for their children.

I am active duty military – a quarter-century now, and counting; I fully comprehend (perhaps more so than most of you) the significant negative impact on our training when we have these folks wandering about our ranges. However, they are innocent (in the sense that they are non-combatants and NOT our enemy) civilians as well as human beings. If you want to believe the illegal immigrants are the enemy, I suggest you rethink the situation.

Clearly, many of you cannot possibly understand what it’s like to grow up dirt poor in a third world country with dreams of one day being able to feed your family on a regular basis and provide to your children opportunities for education, careers and a future that are not possible in your homeland. For these people, the only option they see is to migrate – illegally – to a country that will provide them these opportunities. Yes, they are aware of the risks, knowingly take them, and become criminals when they do. Of course, if you feel this renders these individuals deserving of death, you’re doubtless unable to muster any sympathy for anyone (except those poor convicted felons who should get their gun rights immediately restored when they’re released from prison).

Illegal immigration is not something deserving of capital punishment, which many of you are advocating. Illegal immigration is a huge, huge problem, and our government desperately needs to address the issue far better than it has thus far. But killing illegal immigrants (even “accidently†or “letting Darwinism take its coursâ€) is NOT the answer.
 
That would not be indescriminate. That's being shot for invading a foreign country.

so you think we ought to start shooting Jaywalkers and Speeders as well? Sounds like it from your line of reasoning. Heck, if we shoot all criminals we won't have any crime! lets just put the military on all the streets with commands to open fire on anyone breaking the law. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
heh, if you were an illegal, wouldn't it just make your day to get apprehended by *marines*?

I bet they drop their loads, drop their loads, and put their hands up right quick...
 
If an illegal immigrant parent walks onto a clearly marked artillery range with their children they are no longer innocent.

Border crossers are often smugglers, thieves and worse.

I also have sympathy for poor Mexican immigrants and have supplied them with food, money, clothing and shelter when possible.
 
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