RugerOldArmy
Member
Yes. I'm bummed they make more of them in China. Time to fix that. We made 'em better!
Brand New CZ Duty is broked.
- Thread starter TITAN308
- Start date
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Yes. I'm bummed they make more of them in China. Time to fix that. We made 'em better!
TITAN308
Member
Wow thanks for that random bash.
Stay classy.
meanmrmustard
Member
I rarely question the decorum of fellow members of THR, but let's call a duck a duck.
I risk an infraction issuing this, but you sir are low, adding no beneficial information pertaining to the subject at hand and insulting others at random. I will not object that there has indeed been whining, subjective criticism, and one sided arguments aplenty on this thread.
I've read nothing posted by you that is in any way helpful, informative, or even witty in the slightest. This being said, you will NOT make any friends, you CANNOT be expected to spew venom here and not be called out for it, and if you indeed are not attached to forums, maybe you should get steppin'. You are no friend of mine, and I implore you to never post on a thread I start, or moderators will be WHINED to, in order for removal. Good day, sir.
7mmb
Member
"So much for our President's promise of American jobs." In a post complaining about the CR of a Czech company. Now that's irony...
TITAN308
Member
7mmb I fail to see the irony as CZ-USA is a business in the US which has US workers.
7mmb
Member
Sorry, Titan, I just found it ironic someone would bemoan the loss of American jobs in a post about a pistol that was made in the Czech Republic. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I own four Italian made pistols. And I am a technician at a Toyota dealer so I am well aware of foreign made products supporting American jobs. I just found it ironic to complain about American jobs lost when discussing a foreign made product.
I just read through the whole thread and am probably one of the few guys that can sympathize with you. I had a bad experience with Ruger's customer service and posted about it on Ruger Forum and got blasted! And I wasn't even upset about the lame telephone experience like you were (not that there's anything wrong with being upset about lame telephone experiences.) I wasn't even upset that they weren't going to fix the gun so it wouldn't scrape the finish off of itself when fired. I wasn't even upset that they weren't going to unjam the rear sight so I could adjust it for windage. I was upset that after I had received the gun back unrepaired the first time (after having shipped it to Davidson's who then sent it to them) I called them and explained the problem and they told me to send it back to them. Ok, fine, I'll give you another shot at fixing it. After they got it back they sent me a bill saying they wanted $65 to send it back to me, unrepaired, because they don't think there is anything wrong with it! If you weren't going to fix it why tell me to send it back to you and then charge me to have it returned unrepaired!?!? Moral of the story is, internet gun forums aren't always the best place to vent your frustrations. I finally got the gun back no charge after much frustrating phone conversations with the head of Ruger's CR. I then promptly sent it back to Davidson's who sent me a brand new gun, because the Ruger was bought through Davidson's and had their guarantee. Now they have outstanding customer service! (Always, always, always buy through Davidson's if you can.) I got rid of the gun in question and also sold my Ruger 9mm and traded up to Witness Elite Matches. I'm sure you'll have a better outcome with your CZ CR experience than I had with my Ruger CR experience. Good luck Titan.
Walt Sherrill
Member
Yeah, but did they APOLOGIZE for selling you a crappy gun? <grin>
I've had a problem or two with Ruger, myself, now that I think about it. They lost a bolt for a Ruger .22 Government model, claiming it never arrived. Luckily, I had the UPS receipt which showed a person signed for it. That took a bit longer than I expected.
I've had a few other so/so experiences with Ruger, too, so I guess my previously stated "positive" feelings about Ruger ought to be tempered, somewhat.
In the final analysis, talking about guns is a bit like talking about religious beliefs -- you question the true believer at your own risk.
7mmb
Member
Actually, come to think about it, they did apologize, which was nice. What was even better, though, was exceeding my expectations and giving me a brand new gun! I wasn't even charged shipping, which was also unexpected. All I really wanted was for a good gun to be made even better. Ruger didn't follow through but Davidson's sure did. Two of my last four purchases were through them. Of the two I didn't buy from them one was out of stock and one they didn't sell. All were purchased through Impact Guns' SLC, UT store, which also guarantees the guns they sell. Along with the manufacturer's warranty I think I'm covered. If I can I will always buy through Davidson's. Great company, fast delivery, no surprises on the price and truly a no BS warranty.
TITAN308
Member
Ok so her we go (maybe CZ-USA does have a sense of humor?)
Based on the quoted time and it shipping in just a week; I am guessing the pistol was just out right replaced.
Could be wrong, just a guess.
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 4:25 PM
To: warranty
Subject: RE: Brand New P-07 Broken after less than 100 rounds.
You must be messing with me
I just got an email from Fedex that its shipping back out.
Can I inquire as to what the problem is? I looked online and it appears that I had a somewhat older serial number and most people reported just receiving a brand new pistol. I'm just curious if mine was repaired or just outright replaced due to an early production problem.
Thanks for any info,
- xxx
Based on the quoted time and it shipping in just a week; I am guessing the pistol was just out right replaced.
Could be wrong, just a guess.
RugerOldArmy
Member
It was probably a generic response, to manage your expectations, without the time spent looking up the specific request to the specific return.
So, if it comes in fixed or replaced, (in a week?), would you be disappointed?
So, if it comes in fixed or replaced, (in a week?), would you be disappointed?
TITAN308
Member
Why would I be disappointed?
meanmrmustard
Member
...that they still didn't say that they were sorry? If CZ sent it back in tip top shape without the regards, would you still be pissed?
RugerOldArmy
Member
It seemed your interaction with the customer service rep left you disappointed earlier. In one of my previous posts, I noted that training and staffing customer service reps has a cost that would likely need to be passed on to the consumer, and reflected in a higher cost of the product. The P07 serves the low-end (price wise) of the market, so you may be sensitive to cost. A company needs to choose just how much is invested in such service, and I was curious if, at the end of this, you would think they chose well.
It seems a fair question.
TITAN308
Member
Your asking me about two unrelated things. The level at which they have customer service and then if I would be disappointed to get a repaired or new gun returned to me?
Does that mean I could possibly be happy about not getting a repaired or new gun returned to me? /confused
Also I seriously doubt that the conversation with the original CS rep would have gone any different if I was reporting the most high dollar gun they have had broken in less than 100 rounds. So the whole argument there is invalid.
If its true that is even more crappy company policy. That would suggest your level of customer service is based on your wallet. Can't recall that policy ever working out for any company of importance.
Does that mean I could possibly be happy about not getting a repaired or new gun returned to me? /confused
Also I seriously doubt that the conversation with the original CS rep would have gone any different if I was reporting the most high dollar gun they have had broken in less than 100 rounds. So the whole argument there is invalid.
If its true that is even more crappy company policy. That would suggest your level of customer service is based on your wallet. Can't recall that policy ever working out for any company of importance.
RugerOldArmy
Member
Consider the reference earlier to Lexus customer service. You pay a little extra, but I hear they really take care of you. They bought lunch for a friend of mine, as an example.
It was a simple, polite, genuine question. One of the teams that reports to me does customer service, so I was curious what your overall opinion of the 'service experience' would be, if they fixed your problem?
Isn't that even more reasonable than the point you made about the company letting you down, perhaps endangering your life, given your expectation that a $496 list tool, might have been needed in your defense, at the time it suffered the mechanical breakdown?
However, I no longer expect a straight answer to a simple question. Even so, I hope things work out for you.
It was a simple, polite, genuine question. One of the teams that reports to me does customer service, so I was curious what your overall opinion of the 'service experience' would be, if they fixed your problem?
Isn't that even more reasonable than the point you made about the company letting you down, perhaps endangering your life, given your expectation that a $496 list tool, might have been needed in your defense, at the time it suffered the mechanical breakdown?
However, I no longer expect a straight answer to a simple question. Even so, I hope things work out for you.
TITAN308
Member
I never doubted they would take care of my gun. Regardless of their ability to honor a warranty the outcome doesn't change the fact that reporting an out of box failure triggered a "Meh...ok" attitude.
I mean if a gun failing gets them as excited as a pez dispenser failing, not sure if I can put in reliance in carrying/using one of their pistols. Its like they break all the time and its common place. Boy that sure instills some reputation right there.
Them repairing my gun, something they are OBLIGATED to do, is not going to warrant a "woohoo you guys rock!"
A "woohoo you guys rock!" would be them doing what they are obligated to do and showing some form (any) of concern that their product broke out the box.
Edit: If someone was to ask me about CZ for my own feedback I would tell them their warranty work gets honored, but would I recommend one at this point? The answer would be no.
Sorry I don't have a simple answer for you because its really two answers to your one question.
Warranty work? Spot On.
Recommend them? No.
They don't get an A+ for doing their obligation, they get just a regular A.
I mean if a gun failing gets them as excited as a pez dispenser failing, not sure if I can put in reliance in carrying/using one of their pistols. Its like they break all the time and its common place. Boy that sure instills some reputation right there.
Them repairing my gun, something they are OBLIGATED to do, is not going to warrant a "woohoo you guys rock!"
A "woohoo you guys rock!" would be them doing what they are obligated to do and showing some form (any) of concern that their product broke out the box.
Edit: If someone was to ask me about CZ for my own feedback I would tell them their warranty work gets honored, but would I recommend one at this point? The answer would be no.
Sorry I don't have a simple answer for you because its really two answers to your one question.
Warranty work? Spot On.
Recommend them? No.
They don't get an A+ for doing their obligation, they get just a regular A.
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TITAN308
Member
Why not? That is the only interaction really I have to go on.
People use to put a lot of emphasis on first impressions.
Companies and customers. Employees and Job Interviews. Etc. Etc.
I *hope* I am not talking to CZ more than once.
People use to put a lot of emphasis on first impressions.
Companies and customers. Employees and Job Interviews. Etc. Etc.
I *hope* I am not talking to CZ more than once.
Wow, this turned into a a multi-forum pissing match. Quite impressive.
My guess would be that most companies train their employees not to apologize. We are a litigious society, after all. Do post up when your shipment arrives. I'm curious to see how all of it turns out for you.
My guess would be that most companies train their employees not to apologize. We are a litigious society, after all. Do post up when your shipment arrives. I'm curious to see how all of it turns out for you.
WardenWolf
member
Titan308:
You know, you really should be more tolerant of CSR reps. Some of them are new, and some of them have problems of their own. The person said flat out they would fix it, and that it is under warranty. And said they would send you a shipping label when asked. That is excellent customer service, and all you can ask for.
As for the individual, what you described is one of the primary hallmarks of Asperger's or mild autism. Monotone voice and inability to make small talk or easily empathize, along with general social awkwardness. Speaking from personal experience, a person like that has an immensely hard time dealing with phones and phone support, and probably is only doing that job because they're desperate and need money.
When it boils down to it, *you* are the one who needs a dose of empathy.
You know, you really should be more tolerant of CSR reps. Some of them are new, and some of them have problems of their own. The person said flat out they would fix it, and that it is under warranty. And said they would send you a shipping label when asked. That is excellent customer service, and all you can ask for.
As for the individual, what you described is one of the primary hallmarks of Asperger's or mild autism. Monotone voice and inability to make small talk or easily empathize, along with general social awkwardness. Speaking from personal experience, a person like that has an immensely hard time dealing with phones and phone support, and probably is only doing that job because they're desperate and need money.
When it boils down to it, *you* are the one who needs a dose of empathy.
After going back over much of this thread, I realize that there is a side in this story that for the most part is getting shortchanged - the good CZ customer service. This whole thing is essentially about one individuals experience. So, I'll tell you about mine - I've had two (for broken guns) over about the last six years. These were very positive experiences: cs reps were polite, professional and not "MEH" (to reuse an already often used phrase). The most memorable experience that I had was the first. I actually got to speak with Mike Eagleshield. I've also ordered some parts over the years, and again, very positive experiences here too. Can't recall ever running into the "MEH" guy on any of my interfaces with CZ customer service. They did send me a "wrong" part once; but, they immediately sent me the correct one free of charge. So much time has elapsed now that I really don't remember if they ever apologized at any time.
So, there is a "good" tattle about CZ customer service.
So, there is a "good" tattle about CZ customer service.
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TITAN308
Member
Speak for yourself, not others. Doing whats obligated does not make for good customer service.
Uh, no.
We can play the, "Well maybe he has one eye and his parents were killed by wolves and his car blew out all 4 tires today" all day long. That is irrelevant to the topic at hand.
On the flip side; Maybe my gun failed while I was working security and because of that a bad guy stabbed me in the gonads and now I cant reproduce. Can I at least get a "sorry you got stabbed in the sack" from the company?
Donato I never claimed my experience was the be all, end all of CZ reps. This thread is about my experience and if people ask me about CZ in the future I will tell them about my experience truthfully; that my warranty work was honored and turn around time was very quick - but that their employee seemed indifferent to the fact that a pistol (not a pez dispenser) broke right out the box. I imagine the conversation would start with, "There are a lot of good CZ comments out there, but my personal experience is..."
The point being his job is to interact with customers, if hes not ideal for the position, put him somewhere else. I bet the conversation would be different if instead of asperger it was torrets and he was just randomly dropping F-bombs in the conversation. Then all of a sudden you be like, "Damn what the hell is that company thinking?"
If you want an A rating then just do what your obligated to do. If you want A+ then care about what you are obligated to do.
How this seems to be a foreign idea to people is beyond me and I stopped trying to understand it many many posts ago.
larryh1108
Member
I guess it boils down to what you expect from a company's CS.
Me? I want it fixed right on the first try with no extra BS or drama.
I don't want to spend any more money in shipping or anything else.
I don't want a rude or smart alec CS rep.
It breaks, they fix it free, we're good.
Others want a little more, as posted here. Right or wrong, it's his right to expect something different. However, in my eyes, an A rating for their CS is still good. As the OP stated it means they did what they are obligated to do. That works for me.
Me? I want it fixed right on the first try with no extra BS or drama.
I don't want to spend any more money in shipping or anything else.
I don't want a rude or smart alec CS rep.
It breaks, they fix it free, we're good.
Others want a little more, as posted here. Right or wrong, it's his right to expect something different. However, in my eyes, an A rating for their CS is still good. As the OP stated it means they did what they are obligated to do. That works for me.
Walt Sherrill
Member
I asked this before, and you didn't respond: would you have felt better had the gun broken after 500 rounds, rather than during the first time you used it? It might have been in a carry rotation, then.
Have any of your other weapons ever broken or had a malfunction that kept them from operating as designed?
In the final analysis, your whole argument isn't really about customer service, but about communications and expectations. You seem to expect more than most when it comes to communications with a company. You are free to have those "greater" expectations.
My worst experiences with gun failures were 1) a firing pin that broke in a Beretta Tomcat, after many hundreds of rounds, and 2) a barrel that cracked in the chamber area of a Witness Sport Long Slide (.45).
The Tomcat problem was a complete failure and loss of function. The second, the Long Slide, I found only by accident, after stripping the gun when I found residue in the chamber area that I couldn't explain. In the second case, the gun SEEMED to function properly. More rounds fired might have been ugly -- I'm not sure.
It took Beretta four months to repair their gun. It was one of the early Tomcats, and they didn't have the needed parts. Communicating with them was like communicating with a machine -- far from personal.
In the case of the Long Slide, it was a used gun, and I just bought a new barrel. I also later had the Supersight break, through no fault on my part. I just bought a new sight -- both incidents were expensive. There was no way EAA would have done ANYTHING about either of those problems -- I wonder if they would have done anything had I bought it used, as I have heard and read a lot of horror stories in that regard. (I only shoot standard power factory ammo.)
I didn't get a warm and fuzzy feeling from interacting with Beretta, but I did get a repaired weapon -- which failed again, later, for different reasons. The early Tomcats had problems. I got it fixed and swore off Tomcats. I later traded the Longslide away, but there was nothing wrong with it -- I was just ready for something different and I wasn't a big fan of .45s a few years back. Have a great SIG 220 Super Match, now, and have warmed to the caliber a bit.
Guns do break. Breaking the first time out is quite unusual.
What about the other guns you bought with that "big" purchase? Any word on them?
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