brass won't go into die?

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suzukisam

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okay this is kinda a long story so I'll try to give a quick overview and then if you need more info ask... so I just started loading up my 6.5x55 cases. I have two headstamps "pmc" and "nny". I got ten test loads ready for the range tomorrow and I decided to cycle them through the action before tomorrow. exactly half chambered and half didn't. 5 pmc chambered 5 nny didn't. I had some issues with some rcbs dies and just bought new dies today. so I had a question as to whether they were sized properly. so I grabbed out 10 new pieces of prass and checked them in the rifle they too had been sized. Again 50/50 on the chambering and again different headstamps. so I resized them just to be sure....

This is where I started to notice the problem.. the ones that won't chamber will not seat fully in the die. they are about 25 thousandths from the ram touching the die. the ones that do touch seat and chamber fully. I would assume the brass is just stretch because they are once fired, at least that's what I was told. But the thing is the shoulder is not getting all the way in because it has a somewhat "weatherby" shoulder profile compared the the properly sized ones. you can see that the neck sizer has not gotten quite all the way down to the top of the shoulder..

My theory... since the amount exposed(not seating in the die). is proportional to the amount needed to properly shape the shoulder, I am assuming for now the brass is not over stretched length ways. there are some fairly heavy sizing marks in the webbing area of the case. is there a possibility these were fired in a very loose chambered rifle and the webbing is stretched out and is fighting my die to go in? they had no bulg or irregular shape.. actually the problem ones were in very nice shape, they looked like they were new brass. they were all in the original ammo boxes and very neatly stored.

this is a new problem for me any help would be great
 
Sounds like an improperly adjusted sizing die.
It sounds like it is either not screwed in far enough and not completely sizing every case.
Or, it is screwed in too far, and not allowing full ram travel.
At any rate, it sounds like you are not using the press handle "bump" or stop, to insure it goes full travel on every case, but are just stopping in a different place each time when it gets tight.
Plus, perhaps a lack of sizing lube.

To adjust the sizing die:
With the press ram up, screw the sizing die down against it.
Then raise the ram and screw the die down another 1/8 - 1/4 turn.

When done, you should feel the press linkage "toggle over" at the top of the stroke.
That takes all the flex out of the press & linkage and insures the shoulders all go back where they came from.

rc
 
rc- you are correct... except it isn't me.. the cases will not go in any farther.. the die is set plenty low in the press it makes full contact with the ram.

as far as lube, the cases were lubed with one shot as well as the die. I also tried a little extra lee lube on the sticky ones...

half the cases will and half will not and without standing on the handle and risking a stuck case I'm a little confused..
 
O.K.
How about your depriming/expanding assembly is screwed too far in the die, and the expander plug is hitting the bottom of the case web before sizing is complete on certain brands or cases with thicker webs??

rc
 
Sounds like the case is not entering the die enough to bump the shoulder. I had the same problem with a Forster die trying to bump a shoulder on a 6mm Dasher. I simply removed about .015 from the bottom of the die. You can also remove some material from the top of the shell holder. Another option would be to look into Redding Competition shell holders. They make then in various heights.
 
dsm your are correct it isn't entering the die enough. but it's not the die the case is stopping before entering.. the ram has more it could go up but the cases are sticking as if not enough lube, but I assure you there isn't enough lube in the world to fix this
 
there are some fairly heavy sizing marks in the webbing area of the case. Is there a possibility these were fired in a very loose chambered rifle and the webbing is stretched out and is fighting my die to go in?
Click to expand...
The web area expands from to hot of a load. Standard dies do not size all the way to the web. Lube the brass well, screw the die down, put some muscle into it. If that dont help cuss at it .:cuss: :D Then take measurement of your brass using SAAMI Data found here > http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/index.cfm?page=CC
 
Try Mr. Lee's method >
Can't close bolt on rifle

First make sure the the sizing die is adjusted so that the shell holder contacts the base of the die when the ram is at the top of its stroke when resizing a case. This ensures that the sizing die is bumping the shoulder back as well as reducing the diameter of the case. If the shell holder does not contact the base of the die, the diameter of the case is squeezed down, making the case (and distance to the shoulder) longer.

If this does not solve the problem, return the sizing die with a couple of fired cases, and we can modify the die to suit. Our address is:

Lee Precision Inc,
4275 Hwy. U
Hartford, WI 53027.
Click to expand...
 
okay here is a little update.. I originally had a set of rcbs dies that would not reduce the neck size.. they put no neck tension on the cases.I could push a bullet in and out by hand. so I scrapped those(bought second hand) and decided to buy a new set of lee dies. the lee dies have given me the troubles listed above. I went back and was able to barely get the old rcbs dis to properly size the cases at the base. they will now chamber in the gun. I think it has something to do with the base sized on that brand of brass. but once sized in the loose dies they then could be forced into the lee dies and chamber properly.. what makes me think it was a brass issue and not a die issue is out of 200 rounds of brass only one headstamp is giving me fits for the most parts. and all the brass that sized normally chambered normally. it seems the lee dies and the guns chamber are in agreement
 
rc- lee breech lock single stage..

243- thanks for the tip, but I don't want to modify the dies till I narrow the problem down. and the press wis adjusted in the exact manner as stated in your post.. thanks for your thoughts though
 
Are the nny symbols kind of symbols instead of lettering nny?

I recall a problem with 5.56 brass and it seemed to have been something that was made in the middle east and I had to throw all the casings out, most wouldn't even fit the rim into the shell holder! And primers were literally falling out of the spent casings!
 
If this does not solve the problem, return the sizing die with a couple of fired cases, and we can modify the die to suit. Our address is:
Click to expand...
yes you did

O didn't read your comment fully.. I missed the "mr lee did part"
 
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yeah they are those russian symols... it was all Czech made stuff.. I think that is the headstamp wolf has isn't it..
 
"rc- you are correct... except it isn't me.. the cases will not go in any farther.. the die is set plenty low in the press it makes full contact with the ram."

Well, the cases will go further but you have to lube them well and push them into the die, not stop part way in. No set process of 'touch the shell holder with the die plus "x" turns' will accomplish much. Size as you have been doing and, with the ram fully up, look to see how much of a gap you have between the die and shell holder. Lower the case and turn the die down that much, then size your cases properly.

One Shot lube is excellant for sizing handgun cases in carbide dies. For rifles, try something, anything, that isn't a spay and your resizing will be much easier.
 
ranger- I am using the lee lube. the white stuff that looks like tooth paste.. it WILL NOT GO IN ANY FARTHER. I'm telling you I've loaded 10,000 plus rounds on this press. I'm no pro but I'm no novice either. this is something more than just a more beer and bigger hammer problem. like I said I can get them into the old rcbs and then they'll chamber in the gun. but those dies came from an estate and there is a chance that the neck sizing portion was played with or worn out or something. anyway I'm just gonna resize everything with the rcbs to fix the bases and the with the lee to set the neck tension. it is just the weirdest thing I've had happen in all my reloading
 
Okay, take your word for it. Uncompensated press spring has accounted for every instance like your's I know of. And, yeah, Lee's case lube is great stuff. Good luck!
 
First of all, make and sure your die is adjusted so the shell holder contacts the die. The degree of contact should be such, that you'll feel the linkage pop over slightly when the ram is fully extended. This is one possible cause of your problem, probably the the most likely cause.
Though this next possible cause is rather unlikey, simply because you have some that will chamber seating depth. Check to see if there is some pretty obvious marks on the bullets around the olgive portion of the bullet.
And my last thought on this is case length. Measure your cases to see if they are in need of serious trimming. This is not likely a cause, but if the brass is way to long, the mouth can get pinched.
 
games stalker- I too thought possibly the bullet just cause they are so long, but I pushed the ones that wouldn't work in another 50 thousandths, and it didn't help any... I can see what the problem is it is very obvious the chambering issue is the shoulder not being in place based on them not sizing down. I just ran everyone through the first die and set the shoulder and then resized in the other die to set the neck. once sized in the rcbs die they fit in the lee die just fine...


What I don't understand is why the lee die will not just do it all in one step..
 
Nothing to add to OP question ... but to clarify a point...

Another option would be to look into Redding Competition shell holders. They make then in various heights.
Click to expand...

Redding only makes the Competition shell holders in Plus(+) dimensions ...

From the Redding web site....
The new Redding Competition Shellholders are packaged in five piece sets in .002” increments (+.002”, +.004”. +.006”, +.008” and +.010”).
Click to expand...

For a negative(-) dimension effect ... you will either have to take material off the top of shell holder or off the bottom of the die.

Jimmy K
 
suzukisam, I am curious ... could you try something?

Pull apart a new factory round and insert the case into the sizing die to verify that everything is where it should be. If you run into any problem with a factory new case, then we can go from there (probably call RCBS/Lee).

If you don't have any problem sizing a factory new case, at least we ruled out one aspect of this curious problem. :D

I'm just gonna resize everything with the rcbs to fix the bases and the with the lee to set the neck tension. it is just the weirdest thing I've had happen in all my reloading
Click to expand...
Would you consider calling RCBS/Lee and let them ponder? Just because we haven't run into this problem before doesn't mean they haven't. Maybe they already have a fix for you. ;)
 
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I would try JimKirk's suggestion with the Redding Comp die set. I bet your Lee die will get enough of the case with those to reset the shoulder.
 
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