Browning Hi-Power: Educate me, please.

[HexHead]

I am also a devotee of the Gospel of John Moses Browning. The man was a brilliant weapons designer and I feel a little of that brilliance whenever I fire one of his designs.

The final HiPower design, some 10 years after Browning's death, had very little to do with his design other than the 13-round mag and maybe the improved barrel lockup. His original design looked more like a larger Pocket Hammerless, than a 1911.

 

[HexHead]

The best is get a new CZ 75 , much more ergo friendly.

Jeez, CZ is like Scientology. Their fans are cultists.

 

[WVsig]

The Nighthawk will be a $2850 pistol. http://www.nighthawkcustom.com/pistols/browning-hi-power#slide-4

Looks like a stock Browning slide and frame, Heine Sights, Garthwaite trigger, beavertail and some other nice refinements. Not a fan of the slide top checkering I prefer serrations there. The other part of the build that disappoints me is the stock thumb safety. There are much better thumb safeties out there and most BHP custom smiths have their own custom part NH should go that route.

At that price you could get a full house custom from some if the masters. The best BHP smiths like Ted Yost, Don Williams, Jin Garthwaite, C&S & Novak to name a few. I would prefer to have a full house custom for less.

I have a few custom BHPs one from Don Wiliiams, one Novak and one Jim West of Wild West Guns. I am sending an MKIII to Garthwaite in Feb. It should be done in early July. None of these with the base gun cost me $2850.

Don William Lightweight:


Novak:



Wild West Guns:

 

[WVsig]

JMB did not design the BHP. He designed the Grand Rendement.


Saive was the final designer of the BHP. He was also the designer if the original 13 round magazine not JMB. Saive was the head designer at FN Herstal. He also designed the FAL rifle.

 

[Goju]

I've read many times on THR - members comments to the effect that a 1911 is a "$1000 +" gun. I don't see the BHP being much different, with the exception of there being no low cost foreign manufacture options as a host to mod from. Sure, you can find a good condition FEG or FM copy in the $4-500 range, but you may soon be wanting a better trigger, safety lever, sights on a FN / FM / FEG base model......or you could just spend that $ from the get-go and buy a CZ 75B.
For disclosure, I own a FN BHP, but not a 75B

 

[lysanderxiii]

Mine was built in early 1944, a beauty, and a tack-driver. Somewhere along the way someone removed the mag disconnect, the trigger is somewhat mushy and light, but given the accuracy, the rest of the gun is designed right. Only criticism is the fat grip, apparently Browning designed it as a single stack (8-round) with a comfy slender grip. Will carry in a 1911 holster. The Canadian ones have the best sights, are fixed, an inverted pointy V front, squared off rear sight make for precision shooting. Early ones also have the desirable ring hammer, the attractive internal extractor and a rectangular thumb safety. Shop around, expect to pay about $750.

Best to you.

Some of the late war production never had a magazine safety

 

[WVsig]

Some of the late war production never had a magazine safety

Some of the guns produced during the Nazi occupation at the FN Herstal factory were produced without the magazine disconnect. In terms of collectibility they are high but in terms of build quality they are some of the worst BHPs ever built. There was some sabotage by the Belgium workers in the plant on the Nazi guns.

The BHP has the distinction of being the only gun produced and fielded by both sides of WWII.

 

[WVsig]

Posted this over on TFL but will post it here as well.

Right now in the BHP market not clones there are 2 ways to go IMHO.

Lots of people will direct you to CDI sales on GB AKA Coles Distribution is running low. They used to be the prime source for good surplus guns. He is at the bottom of the barrel these days. I would pass unless he gets some more guns in.

FN Belgium Hi Power 9mm Pistol Standard Mk 2 are available at AIM. They will be finished challenged but at $439.

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.as...e6aba-18942077

Or

FN MKIIIs for $479.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1FNHPMK3I

The differences between MKII and MKIII guns can be found here.
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/D...IIandMkIII.htm

The other way to go is to stalk GB. You can find deals there. I bought a LNIB MKIII there for about $525 last year. I also picked up a lightly customized 1969 C series with a Bomar rear sight for $400. If you have the cash and are patient you can get nice BHPs on GB for the $500 to $600 range.

For the most part is a stronger cast frame on the MKIIIs and dovetail front and rear sights. Personally I would go for a MKIII because they will last longer. In the end for me price drives the market. I have BHPs from the 50s to the 00s and they all shoot. Look for condition and for price.

People pay a larger premium for T series guns. Hard to find one less than $800 that is not a beater and when they are at that point the T means nothing. They are considered the height of fit and finish for many BHP collectors.

If you find a nice C series get it but most of them will have a small thumb safety and a half moon front sight or a adjustable rear sight. Hard to find a good one for less than $700.

I would pass on anything with an internal extractor. The internal extractor is a known weak point of the design. They break and are not produced anymore. Replacement extractors are hard to replace and when you find one they are expensive. That is why I recommend them for collector occasional shooters only.

If you are looking at clones the FEG, Charles Daly & FMs are the best of the breed but with their prices climbing into the $400 range I would choose a true FN/Browning even if it is finish challenged.

FM were made on Browning equipment under lic at one time. They are good clones. You see more FEGs than anything else and some of them are excellent. Some of their blued clones are stunning but you will pay a premium.

Charles Dalys are FEG parts assembled by Dan Wesson or Magnum Research, Inc. Only the first 500 were assembled by Dan Wesson. Their serial #s start with HP the Magnum Research guns serial #s start with HPM. If you find one of these they are great clones. The Spegel designed Uncle Mike grips that came with them are worth $60 by themselves. They are not seen very often but are great shooters. Only downside is that they have a XS big dot sights.I personally do not like them.

There are always bargains out there so keep you eyes open and your wallet ready.

 

[Spats McGee]

Thank you, one and all. Clearly, I have some research to do whilst I save my scheckles.

 

[SeanSw]

I just traded into a nearly new BHP practical model. It's not the exact model I'd choose (no thanks on the black polycoat two tone) but it was a very good trade and my little collection needed another classic design. The price of a new one baffles me a bit, much like 1911s. They seem quite expensive when so many other guns can do "more" for less.

I will say, it feels very well made and slick as snot. There wasn't a single hiccup in my first range trip and the all metal frame and smaller grip are delightful. Polymer guns look and feel so bulky by comparison. This one was made in Belgium and assembled in Portugal. Hard chrome frame and polycoat slide are even and flawless. The trigger is heavy for SA (mag disconnect removed) and I can already tell it's breaking in for the better.

 

[tipoc]

Go over here Spats...

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/

One of the best sites on the web.

Here may help as well...

https://forums.1911forum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=15


tipoc

 

[sawdeanz]

I was in your boat recently, just finding out how much I love the design. Don't make the mistake and get an internal extractor like I did at first, mine is fine so far but no one is making replacements at the moment.

To get one at a decent price you will have to be willing to hunt the gunshows and local classifieds/facebook groups. That's how I found my mkIII for $600. I think he was asking $800 at the time but for the condition it was in I was able to get him down. It's still a much better shooter than any thing else. It can be frustrating to see so many used guns (even standard models) for the same price as new. I wouldn't get discouraged, just be patient and really work the seller on the price. Also figure out what you want. I knew I wanted dovetailed sights which even today aren't a standard feature for some reason but I'm glad I did.

I also wouldn't be too hesitant to get a clone, after all all it was one of the most widely used police/military sidearms, however some copies don't have perfectly interchangeable parts so as a shooter you ought to do the research to make sure the particular one you get will have a supply of replacement parts.

Interesting news on the Nighthawk one. Nice to see someone making a hi-power again, but I don't think I'll warm up to the stippling work on it. It looks like what everyone is doing at home to their glock frames. Personally for mine I would like to get some action pieces swapped out and worked on, and do a tasteful cerakote over the original worn paint.

 

[anothernewb]

Not just a good buy, but also rare as hens teeth. I follow the statewide used market very closely, via classified sites like Armslist and TheOutdoorsTrader, and I'm seeing clones like the FEG's and FM's going in the $400 range. For a Belgian FN to be down around $5-600, it would have to be rescued from years in a damp basement (as one recently was).
If you can find a "used one in good shape" for under $750, it's a deal. I'm typically seeing real clean ones more in the $850-950 range.

it can happen.

it can happen. this was a armslist in my area not long ago. $575.



I picked up this practical at an auction a few years ago NIB for $500. But to be fair, the auction wasn't that well visited, as the weather sucked. And I think a lot of people were totally blind.

 

[Pilot]

Jeez, CZ is like Scientology. Their fans are cultists.

Really? I have a MK III Browning Hi Power that I bought new in 1994. Love it. However, I have five CZ-75 based pistols and a 97B. They fit me better, and just plain work.

 

[sub-moa]

WVsig speaks the truth...he knows of what he speaks . He has provided excellent guidance and has dispelled persistent misunderstandings along the way .

it can happen.

it can happen. this was a armslist in my area not long ago. $575.



I picked up this practical at an auction a few years ago NIB for $500. But to be fair, the auction wasn't that well visited, as the weather sucked. And I think a lot of people were totally blind.

I agree AN, it certainly can...and it does happen, but your Sport Model might not be the most glaring example of that fact, as it didn't really cost you $575...it really was closer to...a still reasonable, $675. Replacing the worthless POS magazines "someone"...unfortunately a relatively common and IMHO dishonest practice , included in place of the original factory magazines would have to figure into any pricing comparisons.

Your Practical Model on the other hand @ $500...even given it was a couple years ago, is a good example that quality BHPs CAN...occasionally , be found at entirely reasonable...even outstanding, prices.

 

[WVsig]

Not just a good buy, but also rare as hens teeth. I follow the statewide used market very closely, via classified sites like Armslist and TheOutdoorsTrader, and I'm seeing clones like the FEG's and FM's going in the $400 range. For a Belgian FN to be down around $5-600, it would have to be rescued from years in a damp basement (as one recently was).
If you can find a "used one in good shape" for under $750, it's a deal. I'm typically seeing real clean ones more in the $850-950 range.

As someone who loves the BHP I can tell you that there are great deals out there. I have never paid more than $750 for a BHP. I have a BHP fund which has money in it. If I find one that meets my needs/wants at a fair price I buy it. I do not hesitate too long and I have been able to get excellent deals. I found this one recently for $700 OTD at my local shop. He took it in trade and kept it behind the counter until I came in.

They are out there but you need to be ready to buy.





This one with all the custom work, I believe it was done by Novak, and the Spegel grips for $650.





1969 C series with a genuine Bomar rear sight with a S&W front insert and exceptional trigger job. Finish is not perfect but it is a tack driver. $400

 

[murf]

let us know how this turns out spats mcgee.

murf

 

[Spats McGee]

"How this turns out . . . "

Well, I guess there's going to be plenty of time for my research. . . Mrs. McGee and I got hit with major (and unexpected) car repairs this past month, so the BHP has to stay on The Wish List for a while.

Again, thanks to all of you for the information.

 

[sub-moa]

You've got a pair of legs haven't you?

Get a BHP...and walk






Priorities do have a way of suddenly and unexpectedly changing :-(

 

[entropy]

yeah, Belgium

+1, With Waffenampts. My Dad had one he bought from a fellow cops' widow, still the best 9mm pistol I've ever fired. Accurate, and as the OP pointed out, "an elegant weapon, from a more civilized age."

 

[Roadkill]

Great shooters - '69,'85, '44, and a prewar

[/url]002 by sgtroadkill, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]002 by sgtroadkill, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]001 by sgtroadkill, on Flickr[/IMG]

 

[Das Capitolin]

I recently removed the (badly damaged and glossed) parkerized finish off my Argentine BHP using aluminum oxide blast media. I spent the weekend prepping the metal and cleaning loose parts, and today I blued the slide and body. My first attempt with heat didn't work very well, and some of the blue washed away. My second attempt used 000 steel wool without heat, and to my surprise, did a phenomenal job. I'll post photos tomorrow once I reassemble.

 

[kamagong]

I have a .40. Not as nice as its 9mm brethren, but the nicest .40 I've shot.

 

[Tallball]

The left-handed models are quite rare. Apparently left handed people are more common in Hungary than in most countries - some kind of genetic or statistical oddity, I guess. I chanced upon it when I was doing a job in Budapest.

It was odd. A woman approached me on the street one evening. I don't understand very much Hungarian and thought she was a professional lady making her sales pitch. I wasn't sure what to say. Then she pulled a gun out! I understandably thought I was being robbed at gunpoint. I took my wallet out quickly, trying to avoid being shot. Then she said something about such and such amount of forints, the equivalent of about $200. I thought it was very odd that an armed robber would ask for a certain amount of money rather than taking my whole wallet. But not getting shot and getting to keep some of my money sounded good, so I forked it over. Imagine my surprise when she handed me the pistol and walked away!

Smuggling it back home was an ordeal (another long story), but I managed. And now I have one of the very few left-handed High Power clones in the US. Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

 

[Sistema1927]

Tallball,

I was born at night, but it wasn't last night.