Bug Out rifle to double as game taker

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I like these bug-out discussions. I think about this alot. And I know for sure if I had to move fast and knew that I had no idea how long it would be before things are safe again. I would grab my Ithaca model 72 saddlegun in 22lr which holds about 15/16 in the tube, and 4 boxes of federal bulk ( 550 rds each ) given the time I would toss my taurus model 85 38 special in my pocket and 50 rounds of ammo. Game/food would do with the 22lr and the 38 would be close at hand if some bad guys showed up.
 
Killing deer with .22 rimfires is not legal, and so we will not discuss it here.

That's not quite correct. It may be unethical, but it's perfectly legal to hunt deer with a rimfire in Montana. Per state hunting regs

Firearms

Caliber: There is no caliber limitation during the general big game hunting season (except as specified under shotgun) for the taking of big game animals in Montana. Match the caliber and firearm to the size of the animal hunted.
 
I didn't know that about montana.

I use my HK-91 for deer hunting, works as well as my bolt action 30.06. :)

I like the idea of an AR in 5.56 with a 22LR kit, along with a 9mm/45/etc sidearm. Not sure how that'd work in practice, but it gets you a powerful pistol always available, and a fighting rifle and discreet game taker (within a minute of each other).

I'd like it even better with my Yugo M95 if I could do the same with a 22 conversion kit.
 
I already live in Montana. Where would I bug out to?

My go to all purpose rifle is my M1A. It's killed a few deer, and the cartridge is suitable for anything on the NA continent if the shooter does his part. Having 20 rounds if necessary is always a plus, and the rifle makes a superior club.

I have a few ARs, and any is suitable for deer. The 223 is fairly popular on white tail here, and with a properly selected bullet is more than enough to ensure a clean kill. I'm partial to Barnes TSX. Don't use M193 or M855 ball ammo as a guide to what the 223 can do on game.

I also agree that a 22LR is a nice game getter, particularly when paired with a suppressor. Just plan on head shots.

BTW, bolt guns fail too. Just carry a spares kit.
 
I like the idea of an AR in 5.56 with a 22LR kit, along with a 9mm/45/etc sidearm. Not sure how that'd work in practice, but it gets you a powerful pistol always available, and a fighting rifle and discreet game taker (within a minute of each other).

One of the problems with the 22 conversion kits and the AR is that the lead rimfire bullets can shave lead into the gas port. We had lots of problems with the conversion in a registered M16. I don't care for 22 LR conversions in the AR for that reason. Better to get a 22 upper, but then you loose the weight advantage.
 
I also enjoy these types of discusions. But bugging out is no an option for me. For the following reasons.

Due to special conditions that exist within my famly, heading for the hills/exposure to the elements would amount to a death sentence for my wife and daughter. And due to financial constrants, the ability of owning land/building/storage facilities out in the sticks is not an option.

Also, I keep reading remarks about SHTF and everyone is gonna go deer hunting to provide for their families. Reasonable assumption there, until one realizes that everyone else that has bugged out is also gonna be hunting deer, rabbits, cattle, horses, dogs, or just about anything that can provide food. Truth is that deer will disappear as a food source very quickly. So you better take some fishing equipment as well--till that runs out.

Without going into great detail, my SHTF primary weapons are the sks, 12 ga pump, and the 45 auto. And for better or worse, I have provisions on hand and ain't going no-where.
 
With all these people bugging out to hunt and trap, we are going to run out of game pretty quick!
 
Looks pretty lively....

Someone had it correct when I ment 'gone' and the deer going into hiding. When deer and elk sence they're being hunted, they bed down during the day and are hard (but not impossible) to spot. They change their routine.

With everyone hunting these guys, how long do you think they will last? Eventually they will really be 'gone'.

But is deer and elk really the best prey? How much can you eat before the meat spoils? In a SHTF situation, no electricity or any public utilities. Smoking?



For one person, a rabbit a day is fine. A few squirrls is fine. With no spoiled meat. Shoot one of those guys with a 308 and you wasted half of it.

There are other forms of meat as well, but comes with a hard shell.

I still stand by my statement that you should stockpile the basics. Use hunting as a supplement or getting to your 'place'. Anyone that needs to hunt in a SHTF situation is unprepared and an idiot IMO. It's MUCH easier to buy canned foods or dry goods to sustain life. Water is another story. Just doing canned-stew purchases will hold you for months. But in a 2 or 3 year 'situation' you really need to plan ahead.

Consider it an insurance policy. Some foods last indefinatly if stored correctly. You want to put your families lives in your ability to hunt? When everyone else is out there doing the same? No laws?

Best to hunker down, hide, defend and feed with stores.

Those that think they can live off the land in the blink of an eye should try it and stop day dreaming. If you don't know the rules of three's or don't own any survial skills save the game for us that do.

The primary use of your guns would be to defend if you have your act togeather. That means 223 or 308's and BMG. You should really consider defending against marauders and consolidating like-minded friends to help survive.
 
Southern Shooter,

My First bit of advice is to forget everything everyone wrote above this post, and go out and do a trial run.

Pick a 3-day weekend and use a vacation day or two to extend it. Plan to go with a friend or three. Make up a lit of everything you can stash in your bug-out vehicle in 20 minutes, plus a notebook and pencil. On your embarkation day, limit yourself to those 20 minutes to pack up and go. Meet up with your friends, and drive out to a preselected location.

On the first day, camp around your vehicles and conduct "hunts" and "patrols". Take notes of what works and what doesn't work.

On the second to last day, pack up and hike out (3 or 4 hours) to a more remote site and set up camp again. Conduct a "hunt" and "patrol" again. Always take notes.

When you get back home, write out your results and compare them with your friends. Then come back here and ask specific questions regarding specific situations.

Your needs will be dictated by your situation.

For instance, I have done this twice, once an actual bug-out trial and the other an amateur radio "Field Day" event where you practice emergency communication techniques.

The most important thing I learned is that my local environment (Nevada) requires a minimum of 2 gallons of water per day per person, to sustain moderate to heavy activity. I also prefer 5000+ calories. The terrain is mostly hilly to mountainous, requiring good hiking boots. Weight is everything if I'm going to be travelling by foot. Since my secound bug-out, I have been researching ultra-light backpacking stuff, including clothing.

On the first trip, two of my friends were police officers, and brought their department approved AR-15s, with all the super useful tactical stuff bolted on. I brought my Bushmaster Superlight (with A1 upper) and the fourth brought an M4gery. After half a day hiking around the desert we found that my Superlight felt three times lighter than all the other ARs. Also, under the intense sunlight, the standard black furniture was simply too hot to touch with bare skin.

The most prevailent wild game is rabbit. In my 10 years of living in Nevada, I've seen several wild rams, and 1 deer.

After those two trips, I still haven't got an ideal bug-out setup, but it is getting better. I've mapped out several secluded nature water sources. I've reduced my pack load by many pounds will increasing the amount of stuff I'm bringing along.

My Bushmaster AR-15 Superlight is still my bug-out rifle. This is supplimented by my CCW and and M6 Scout in my truck. My bugout kit is first comprised of an LBE that carries ammo, first-aid, water canteens, minimal survival kit, poncho and 3600 calorie survival bar. The full kit is packed in 12 5-gallon buckets, complete with everything two people would need to survive for two months except water. Plus copies of all the important documents I would need to recover.

The whole thing is that your bug-out kit will be determined by what you will be attempting to do. If your SHTF plan is to fortify in place, Your bug-out kit should probably be the bare minimum you need to move from your fort to a place of designated safety within a few days march, or perhaps what ever you need to march from wherever you are to your fort. If your plan is to move to a predetermined place of safety, then your kit should be designed to get you there. If your plan is to move out to BFE and survive there or elsewhere, then plan accordingly. And so on and so forth.
 
This thread is making me think that that I'm going to bug-in to a deserted Wendy's with a generator, spare fuel, and about thirty propane tanks.

TEOTWAWKI will be flame-broiled.

werd!
 
I wouldn't bother with hunting, unless you ahve huge amounts of time available during the so-called SHTF situation. Hunting will become difficult if every man and his brother who had previously depended on a grocery store for their meals picks up a shotgun or rifle and goes hunting. The animals that aren't killed are going to a have a wariness of humans that is highly ratcheted up.

Using a .22 to take squirrels, rabbits, and birds would be much more efficient than going after big game. Trapping the same small animals would be far more efficient yet. Even better would be to plan aheade and grow a small vegetable garden.
 
I agree with the garden. It's not a bad idea to store food, water, and supplies in your home. I've got 3 months of food, fresh water, and propane for an oven and grill and a non-toxic indoor heater. Just rotate it out of your normal eating and cooking, properly treat the water, and build it up small a bit at a time, and you'll have more peace of mind than any gun/ammo combination (though I have my stockpiles of .22lr .223 9mm 12g and 30-06 for the bolt, and feel more comfortable because of it all combined).


To answer your question, I still think that a .308 bolt would be the best rifle for a bug-out scenario. If you think you'll have a lot of bad guys you need to shoot (which isn't probably the absolute way it has to be) then maybe something in semi-auto in .308 or other calibers like .223 6.8, etc...
 
What's not to like?

Hm. That would be poor ergonomics, unnecessary bulk, poor trigger, bad balance, and too much weight.

Ideal (for hunting) is exactly what the HK-91 is not. A single-shot H&R/NEF in .270 or larger would be much preferable.
 
Guntech, think olive oil...

Gaz has an excellent idea. Build your bugout bag and test it. Water is heavy so hop from one source to another. I test bugouts by camping next to my vehicle and if I have to use it's supplies, I note it. Of course, some things you can do in a survival situation aren't legal... But Gaz has the right idea, pick a location near water.

The most popular idea amonst survivalists is to stash some stuff in a remote location. Get there and bunker down.

Bugging-in is a popular idea. Make your base camp your home and build from there. Sometimes hiding in plain sight is the best. Some wood to board up the windows and your set, if you have provisions. The key hear is not to let others know what you have, they will take it using whatever force they can. You need to make your place look 'rampaged' so they'll ignore it. IMO, you should have at least 1 months provisions on your shelf. That means water, food and things to heat it. Three is better. Bugging-in at home is easy and just takes the will to do it.
 
Sounds like the 1970s/1980s and "survivalism". Same old ideas. Still mostly bad. If you think it will really get to SHTF, you better already be where you want to be. Among friends and a useful contributor to the community. Appendix out, teeth fixed, spare glasses, lighter flints for your Zippo, needles and thread--and on and on for the stuff you can't make yourself.

Gonna bug out by vehicle? Practice at 5PM on a Friday. 'Cause if you're bugging out, so's everybody else.

Art
 
Art, that is probably the most insightful post in this thread.
Ask anyone who was on the roads when Katrina hit.

The weaponry will be for self defense more than hunger denfense.
 
Bug Out rifle? Easy. A Scout type bolt action rifle in 308. Light, short, accurate, readily available ammo, back-up sights and easy to use at longer ranges if necessary.

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To heck with all the semi-autos military type guns. Then of course a .22 LR like an AR-7 or a fold up survival type. I know, that's two, but that's what I'd carry.
35W
 
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Now, that ain't bad at all.

My disaster rifleTM is a sporterized 1903. Well balanced, not overly heavy, rugged (enough- I'd prefer a 1917), and accurate.

John
 
Just a note about "rabbit starvation", this was noted by several of the mountain men in the 1800's. When reduced to a diet of rabbit or squirrel, etc. by circumstances, the men wasted away, lost weight continually. It wasn't until they killed an elk, deer, ram, buffalo, etc. that their health would begin to recover. These were men who lived most of the year on a meat diet.
 
Eating the brains helps prevent 'rabbit starvation'. Gets you the fats and such you need.

Even better would be getting some fish and veggies. Especially some veggies. And some fruits. Money don't grow on trees but sometimes, food does. Just know what you can't eat, otherwise you're in for a bad day.
 
Well, I'm bugging in anyway. As soon as you are traveling, your supplies are limited to what you can carry, and you become more vulnerable. If you hunker down, you can be far more prepared for a variety of scenarios.

What's you SHTF scenario? Natural disaster, pandemic, attack?

It will also depend on your location. What I need in Helena MT is probably far different that what someone needs is Cupertino CA.
 
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