Bullet type.... Does it really matter?

[jmorris]

The front of the skull on a bull can be near 3' think before you get to the brain.

That’s almost as hard headed as Mrs. Morris seems sometimes, well maybe a foot less..

 

[buck460XVR]

IMHO, bullet choice is paramount. Makes a difference if one is looking to hunt specific game or to be able to defend themselves against an attack from said animal. What I would use for defense against DG vs a human predator is going to be different. The choice of bullet between my .357 or .44 revolvers and their matching carbines is sometimes different when hunting deer because of the difference in velocity and terminal performance at those velocities. We are very fortunate that we have so much choice and technology in the bullets available to us today as compared to even 50 years ago. Before that, there wasn't much choice, especially when it came to mil surp firearms. So you used what you had and made due. Folks back then had the skills to track wounded game and were able to follow a wounded buck for miles without fear of being charged with trespassing. Today, most average hunters do not have that basic skill, nor are they allowed on the neighbors property, just a few yards away. So having the bullet that performs most effectively for the caliber, the platform and the animal we hunt is crucial. It also is the most ethical.

But that is not the question asked in the OP of this thread. That question was..

If you make a head shot to your intended target, and the bullet has enough energy to penetrate the skull of your target. Does it really matter which bullet was actually used?

Will one type of bullet be easier to penetrate a target skull better then another type of bullet? Assuming same caliber, weight and speed are equal and the only difference is bullet type.

....so my answer to that question is still, no.

Back when I was a kid and we butchered a steer, it was brought up to the feed bunk and then shot in the head with a .22. Dropped them like they were poleaxed if you hit them right. Had a bunch of skulls with a single .22 caliber hole above the eye sockets. Don't think grandpa or dad gave much thought to what bullet was in the old Single shot, only that it was loaded. Next door neighbor had a bearskin rug hanging on the wall in their family room. Had a dent in the skull where he hit it with a 170 GR JFP 30-30. Fell likie a rock from the tree it was in. Though he killed it till he walked up to it and it opened it's eyes. Shot it three more times in the chest. When the taxidermist skinned the animal it found that the bullet never penetrated, much less even cracked the skull. Ricocheted right off. Musta only knocked the bear out temporarily and it was between the 30' fall and the three follow up shots that killed it. Odds are a different bullet from the same gun would have done the same thing under the same conditions.

I am not a big fan of head shots on anything but small game and wild turkeys. Have come across too many deer with their jaws blown off or killed deer with a hole thru their ear. Now for a Coup de grâce on a wounded deer, no problem.

 

[H&Hhunter]

I’ve tracked a lot of wounded game in fact I started training and raising Jagdterriers specifically to recover wounded hogs on our place in Texas. I am by no means going to say that all of those were head shots gone wrong. I’ve seen just about anything can go wrong do so. At the peak of our activity down on the ranch we were killing 300 to 400 hogs a year, almost all in spot and stalk conditions. We’ve tracked, gut shots, legs blown off, shot through the muscle only, and quite a few head shots gone wrong, blown off jaws, snouts, teeth, etc etc.

Trying to only make head shots when you you are jump shooting, spot and stalk and still hunting is not in the least bit realistic. You take what you get or you don’t do much shooting.

As far as bullets go we’ve shot some hogs with .30 cal military style ball And 5.56 ball with mixed results. If the bullet hits bone on the way in it tends to do massive damage. If it’s a soft tissue only hit it’s not at All certain that you’ll recover the hog. Those wounds tend to bleed for a short time then seal up. Many times even a good tracking dog can’t follow the trail.

Big square nosed solids in about .40 cal and up are a different story. They kill very effectively and when you add some horsepower into the equation with something like a .458 Lott or a .470 NE they are absolutely devastating on hog sized critters. A .375 H&H with the same shaped bullet isn’t nearly as dramatic. In my experience for the square nosed solids to work really well they need to be .400 cal or preferably larger. And velocity makes them more devastating, but testing has shown does not necessarily increase penetration. Of course on a hog sized critter penetration is far more than adequate.

 

[CraigC]

Bullet choice is critical. Everything literally begins and ends with the bullet.

I also don't think counting on head shots is sound practice. The head is the part of the critter that moves the most and the most unpredictably. The head is not really the target, it's the brain, which is a lot smaller. When a head shot goes wrong, it goes really wrong. Miss the tiny brain and you have a mortally wounded critter that still has full mobility.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

I do believe that if your not making a head shot, with any animal, 2 legged 4 legs or even no legs, bullet type can and does make a difference no matter what caliber you choose. Especially when shooting at distance.

I would however, be willing to bet every type of animal, including humans have survived shots to the head and/or body with just about every type of bullet and caliber there exists and survived, or even lived long enough to suffer. Thus not an instant kill. Depending on the animal/human involved and the shooting circumstances, I still believe bullet type matters. I don’t think it matters if your making a point blank shot to the head, other then maybe for safety reasons. Although even them humans have survived point blank shots to head with just about every type of handgun known to man and including shot guns.

So when shooting to kill, animals or humans (warfare or SD) there is never any true 100% guarantee that you will kill your target every time. There is always a chance that it won’t kills as quickly as we wanted. Maybe our aim was off, maybe the target moved, maybe caliber and ammo choice weren’t the best for that situation, maybe something was in the way like a tree, or Some form of body/head armor.

One person here wrote about someone shooting a bear in the head and the bullet never penetrated. Maybe that problem was with bullet choice, I suspect it was more a caliber choice. A .22 will kill just about anything at point blank range and proper shot placement.

This thread wasn’t meant to be a debate on if one should make a head shot or a body shot, and which is best or more effective, or more ethical or easier. Although with that being said, it is interesting to note that when one has to take another shot to make the kill on an animal allready down. It seems to me most take that final shot to the head, albeit though almost point blank.

Even on my original question, as I think about what everyone has said and talked about. A head shot at a distance though I think, bullet type can make a difference especially with the animal your shooting. Even if you have perfect shot placement to the head, if the bullet doesn’t penetrate, it won’t make an instant ethical kill.

While this thread is about bullet type, I never meant to imply that other factors such as caliber choice, as well as other considerations in making a kill aren’t important. They are. I just want to have a discussion on effectiveness of bullet types on making a kill in regards to head shots.

 

[Aletheia]

What is it with you and head shots? Head shots are the LAST consideration when I am making my choices about bullet/cartridge for a particular game animal because a head shot will also be my LAST choice for hunting any game in the Western Hemisphere. More game is lost because of bad bullet choices than from bad cartridge choices. More game is lost because of bad shot placement than from bad bullet/cartridge choices, and I put choosing a head shot on unwounded game as deliberately choosing bad placement. So, for me at least (and for everyone I have ever hunted with) bullet choice matters a lot. Any bullet/cartridge that will work well on the animal in question in normal hunting realities, will also work well for a finishing shot to the head if that's what you want. So bullet choice always matters.

 

[alsaqr]

Since 2000 the vast majority of my deer and hog hunting has been accomplished with .50 and .54 caliber muzzle loading rifles. i absolutely refuse head shots: Seen numerous deer and hogs horribly wounded.

Thanks to generous Oklahoma bag limits, since 2000 i've killed about 80 deer, also a couple hundred hogs. There were a few long tracking jobs but all deer were recovered. Two bullets have accounted for most of my deer and hogs: The Hornady .430 240 grain XTP and the excellent 250 grain SST. Have also killed about 20 wild hogs using the .430 270 grain flat nose hard cast bullet: That bullet works great on large hogs, they often bang flop.

Yesterday i killed a 300 pound boar with the 250 grain SST bullet from my .50 caliber Encore. Hog dropped at the shot, jumped up, went about 100 yards and expired.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

Since 2000 the vast majority of my deer and hog hunting has been accomplished with .50 and .54 caliber muzzle loading rifles. i absolutely refuse head shots: Seen numerous deer and hogs horribly wounded.

Thanks to generous Oklahoma bag limits, since 2000 i've killed about 80 deer, also a couple hundred hogs. There were a few long tracking jobs but all deer were recovered. Two bullets have accounted for most of my deer and hogs: The Hornady .430 240 grain XTP and the excellent 250 grain SST. Have also killed about 20 wild hogs using the .430 270 grain flat nose hard cast bullet: That bullet works great on large hogs, they often bang flop.

Yesterday i killed a 300 pound boar with the 250 grain SST bullet from my .50 caliber Encore. Hog dropped at the shot, jumped up, went about 100 yards and expired.

Where was the shot placed on that 300 pound boar? How far off the point of aim were you from actual shot placement? Also at what distance were you shooting?

Several here have complained about me taking head shots. But I very very rarely shoot anything over 50 yards.
If your a decent shot. It should be extremely easy to hit a 300lb hog smack dab in the middle of its brain matter. If not my personal opinion is one needs to go back to the range and practice more. Learn to have the accuracy of military snipers even at 50 yards.

I can consistently hit a 2.5” target at 50 yards without to much effort.

 

[LoonWulf]

Where was the shot placed on that 300 pound boar? How far off the point of aim were you from actual shot placement? Also at what distance were you shooting?

Several here have complained about me taking head shots. But I very very rarely shoot anything over 50 yards.
If your a decent shot. It should be extremely easy to hit a 300lb hog smack dab in the middle of its brain matter. If not my personal opinion is one needs to go back to the range and practice more. Learn to have the accuracy of military snipers even at 50 yards.

I can consistently hit a 2.5” target at 50 yards without to much effort.

I spent a good bit of time removing Axis deer from our ponds in highschool with a .22lr, 90% were taken with head shots from 25-75yds, both during the day and at night, I got good at it.
Its actually pretty easy when youve got a solid brace and a fairly still target.

Ive also seen it go south fast. I took a straight on head shot on a doe with my .30-06 at something under 100yds and hit her in the teeth, the round blew most of her face off but wasnt lethal. She went down rolled over and took off. I hit her 3 more times before she went down for good.
I have no issue killing, I have a huge issue causing needless pain, no mater WHAT Im shooting at.

Properly done a headshot is both humane and not horribly difficult, but its far more difficult with far less margin for error than taking a body shot. I dont feel it should be ones primary choice of shots unless one is willing to pass on anything that is questionable. I also dont think one should ignore bullet performance just because they are taking headshots, because when there is a screw up, youve now got a moving animal to deal with....dont really want a mag full of fmjs at that point.

 

[alsaqr]

Most of my hogs are killed at ranges of 50-75 yards from tree stands or blinds. Yep, i could do some head shots but won't. Most hogs are shot behind the crook in the front leg or high in the shoulder.

Where was the shot placed on that 300 pound boar?

Behind the crook in the front leg. Distance was about 90 yards. Shot was on point of aim.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

I spent a good bit of time removing Axis deer from our ponds in highschool with a .22lr, 90% were taken with head shots from 25-75yds, both during the day and at night, I got good at it.
Its actually pretty easy when youve got a solid brace and a fairly still target.

Ive also seen it go south fast. I took a straight on head shot on a doe with my .30-06 at something under 100yds and hit her in the teeth, the round blew most of her face off but wasnt lethal. She went down rolled over and took off. I hit her 3 more times before she went down for good.
I have no issue killing, I have a huge issue causing needless pain, no mater WHAT Im shooting at.

Properly done a headshot is both humane and not horribly difficult, but its far more difficult with far less margin for error than taking a body shot. I dont feel it should be ones primary choice of shots unless one is willing to pass on anything that is questionable. I also dont think one should ignore bullet performance just because they are taking headshots, because when there is a screw up, youve now got a moving animal to deal with....dont really want a mag full of fmjs at that point.

Im not into shooting questionable shots. Body or Head, or any other body part to either kill or mame. I have seen body shots go horribly wrong as well on both humans and animals. So if the shots are questionable. They shouldn’t be taken. This even includes the possibility of missing, and where would the bullet end up.

I prefer not to use FMJ’s for hunting, or SD, target practice is one thing, but the other is different. So I without a doubt have always believed when your taking a body shot, bullet type matters. I was just wondering for head shots if it mattered and how one bullet type might be more effective then another bullet type. As long as the bullet penetrated the skull and hit the ole gray matter, or spinal column. Would one bullet me more effective then another bullet? Hollow point versus a solid flat point, or fracturing, or a fluid dynamic?

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I actually like to make "head shots" (CNS shots to the head). I don't make a lot of them. I have my own personal criteria for whether or not I make such a shot and the vast majority of the time, the circumstances don't qualify. As Aletheia noted, whether or not a bullet is adequate for head shots is last on my list for considering a bullet for hunting, but I would not hunt with a bullet that could not perform in that capacity.

My favorite way to make a head shot is on a strongly quartered away animal with the shot entering through the neck and crossing to the back of the head. That way I get the double potential of making a CNS spine shot and head shot and if I miss one, then I will likely hit the other.

Just to be clear, while it is ideal to directly impact the brain with the bullet, that isn't necessarily what is needed to cause the necessarily brain damage desired. A near miss of the brain often will still drive bone fragments into the brain and/or the hydraulic shock of the impact do the damage necessary. I never would consider relying on hydrostatic shock or hydraulic shock to accomplish my needs, but the fact is that sometimes they do.