Bush to sign border fence bill during Arizona campaign swing

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I'm waiting to see a crackdown on employers.

The current administration is too in love with the "free market" to do much of anything against businesses.

While people fret over our government becoming Big Brother, our nation's corporations have taken 1984 as their blueprint, newspeak and all. We've become a nation of "one market under g-d", that is the largest threat to our security and liberties.

It seems really simple....if people illegally enter the US looking for work, prevent them from working...faced with that obvious equation instead we decide to spend as yet undetermined millions to build a fence here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Fontspoint02262006.JPG
 
It seems really simple....if people illegally enter the US looking for work, prevent them from working
Exactly. Nothing gets my goat more than people trying to earn a living. Next thing you know they'll be grocery shopping and renting apartments and just generally contributing to the economy. Those bastards.
 
Speech, dog and pony show, and then as soon as he leaves the state, take down the sets and quietly drain the funding.

Same old story. And too little, too late.

Oh, and:

Next thing you know they'll be grocery shopping and renting apartments and just generally contributing to the economy.

I take it you don't live in an area where there's lots of illegals? Twelve guys per apartment with salsa music blaring (and lots of drinking), and the opening of just-like-back-home thirdworld "mercados" that constantly fail health department inspections doesn't do much for the area.
 
They won't drain the funding?

Huh! Tell that to the firefighters and other first responders who were promised all sorts of funding for new equipment and radios.

If it's not home-district porkbarrel that can be tacked into a spending bill, it's a target to have its drain plug pulled, and the porkbarrel people then gather beneath the spout to guzzle.
 
They must have given up on Mexico

Exactly. Nothing gets my goat more than people trying to earn a living. Next thing you know they'll be grocery shopping and renting apartments and just generally contributing to the economy. Those bastards.

So am I correct in believeing that you feel it's OK to break our countries laws, in order to make a living, and go shopping and such?
 
So am I correct in believeing that you feel it's OK to break our countries laws, in order to make a living, and go shopping and such?
I feel that the argument is circular. "We don't want them here because they broke the law in coming here so that's why it should be illegal for them to come here. Because they're breaking the law."

If the only thing that's bothering you is that they are breaking the law by coming here, then let's make it legal. Problem solved.
 
While people fret over our government becoming Big Brother, our nation's corporations have taken 1984 as their blueprint, newspeak and all. We've become a nation of "one market under g-d", that is the largest threat to our security and liberties.

+1

The fact that they are lawbreakers isn't the only reason to oppose illegal immigration from Mexico and Central America. Maybe we don't want to reproduce the cultural and political environment of those countries up here? Maybe we don't want our society Mexicanized?
 
Maybe we don't want to reproduce the cultural and political environment of those countries up here? Maybe we don't want our society Mexicanized?
An honest argument!

Frankly, I don't much care for the way the typical Mexican wants to live. Sixteen to a house, mom popping out a kid a year, lawn gone all to hell. But that's being honest and honest is often looked at askance in this world. Moreover, even reading what I just wrote, it seems kind of racist. But we like people who think like us and act like us and live like us, which is just human nature.

Is that enough reason to put up a wall intended to prevent our neighbors from escaping their third-world hellhole? Not in my opinion.
 
'Good fences make good neighbors'

The US government has the right to specify who, and how many, immigrants we will allow into our country, just as every other country on earth does. You want to attempt an exercise in futility... try to move to Mexico permanently!

'but it's too hard'... with the contruction methods that we have available, a simple security fence across rough ground is _not_ an impossible task.

'but they're just trying to make a living'... These people broke our laws getting here, and continue to break our laws by using false ID's, stolen SSN's, and a whole host of other crimes. Even simple daily activities such as driving (without a license, and without insurance) is AGAINST THE LAW.

'the fence won't work'... If it won't work, why is every open-borders group in the country dead set against them? A decent fence, with regular maintence, electronic monitoring, and regular patrols WILL END the huge stream of people invading our nation from the south.

Yes, I accept that a small number of creative individuals will manage to cross the fence. I also realize that in addition to the fence, we need to target employers who hire illegals, and state and local governments who provide them with benifits reserved for citizens. That doesn't change the fact that a good fence is a positive step towards securing our nations borders.

As far as the sudden support from politicians, it just lets us know that they are starting to listen to the people of this country, who are DEMANDING that the border be secured.
 
'but they're just trying to make a living'... These people broke our laws getting here, and continue to break our laws by using false ID's, stolen SSN's, and a whole host of other crimes. Even simple daily activities such as driving (without a license, and without insurance) is AGAINST THE LAW.
More circularity. All of these "crimes" can be prevented by allowing them to live here legally.
 
More circularity. All of these "crimes" can be prevented by allowing them to live here legally.

And the people who have been patiently waiting for their chance to enter legally?

Reward cutting in line?

And more and more, I think places like Switzerland, Iceland, etc have the only option for survival as a first world nation. You can emigrate...IF you already have a job lined up.
 
'but it's too hard'... with the contruction methods that we have available, a simple security fence across rough ground is _not_ an impossible task.

"rough ground"? Again, have you been to these places? Calling these places "rough ground" is kind of like saying "Bill Gates has some money". A "simple security fence" is nothing compared to the terrain we're talking about.

I didn't say it was impossible however, what I've claimed is that in some places it is just not economically worth it to build a 'fence'. Again, it seems to me that people who support this fence do so in the same blind way people support anti-gun legislation. Make it realistic project, not just a reaction.

AGAINST THE LAW

So was drinking beer, but we changed that.

But we like people who think like us and act like us and live like us, which is just human nature.

This is exactly the sort of "reasoning" as to why I'm a heavily armed Jew.
 
What the hell does that have to do with a fence designed to keep illegal wetbacks out of our country?
Good Lord, these people aren't led by a brilliant Mongol Khan, they're not armed with siege engines,composite bows, and they're not riding fleet steppe ponies.
You're comparing apples and canaries.

Biker
 
These are very resourceful carnaries cause 12million of them have made it here. Its a war of attrition. And they dont need to be led by a military genious just need to have that the will to make a better life for themselves. I see it as an unessary cost. There are many many other things we can do to deter them that cost less money. Not to mention (conspiracy theory coming up) that wall could be used to keep you in.
 
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