CountGlockula
Member
Before EVEN pulling the trigger and removing the slide, clear out the Glock of any ammunition. The handbook clearly states that when field stripping. Reading the manual helps.
"...but Glocks aren't safe!"
- Thread starter Cousin Mike
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Before EVEN pulling the trigger and removing the slide, clear out the Glock of any ammunition. The handbook clearly states that when field stripping. Reading the manual helps.
Uh, that is only after you unload said Glock, just like any other firearm. I understand what you are saying, but when you follow all of the other safety rules, and the manufacturer's process, it is completely safe.
And BTW, anybody that says that the Glock does not have an external safety should be tapped in the back of the head with a tack hammer. It is clearly on the trigger, which is far more than any of the guns previously mentioned by Cousin Mike.
And BTW, anybody that says that the Glock does not have an external safety should be tapped in the back of the head with a tack hammer. It is clearly on the trigger, which is far more than any of the guns previously mentioned by Cousin Mike.
AcenJay
Member
Of course, but with some carelessness, a negligent discharge CAN happen, as in the two cases Cousin Mike mentioned about the guy on glocktalk who shot himself in the hand or the DEA guy. They pulled the trigger without making absolute sure that the chamber was clear of ammunition, whether they forgot to eject the magazine first or however it happened. On top of that, their guns were not pointed in a safe direction, so not only did they have a negligent discharge, but they shot themselves too. I can't think of any other guns right now that require pulling the trigger before they can be field stripped or put into a "safe mode". Sure, it's very good to follow directions, but accidents and carelessness can and do happen. Don't think that I'm anti-Glock though, as I've had Glocks for over eight years and never had a problem, and they are all that I would carry.
Sorry, but the people that think the primary safety is between the shooter's ears are a little to perfect for me. I am not perfect and prefer a thumb safety. The day Glock puts a factory thumb safety on a Glock, I might consider one. It is after all a very reliable gun.
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browningguy
Member
Now I've only drawn and fired mine a few hundred times in IDPA, and 75-100 times a week dry firing practice. But my hand never touches the grip safety when reholstering. Three fingers on the grip, trigger finger along the frame, thumb on back and top of the slide touching the rear sight. It goes into the holster much easier that way.
And if you leave a 8-11 pound trigger in your Glock no one will call it unsafe, but when you go sticking the 5 and 3.5 pound triggers in them you are getting into accident waiting to happen territory. And they sell a crap bucket full of those trigger kits, so somebody must be doing it.
Acenjay, I am not a Glock fan by a long shot, but I think your argument actually goes against you. BECAUSE Glock requires the trigger to be pulled to field strip, people are more likely to be careful when doing it. My 1911 doesn't require me to pull the trigger, so, if I am careless and my gun is still loaded, I am not apt to point the gun away from myself as I am disassembling, especially when I have to look down at the barrel to remove the bushing. Should I accidentally pull the trigger then, I am in bad shape. Having to pull the trigger to field strip is not inherently dangerous. Field stripping a LOADED weapon IS inherently dangerous, and may actually be more dangerous on all guns other than a Glock.
If you follow rule #1 then you will never have this problem. Always check if loaded. This is the first thing I check when I pick up any firearm.
I dry fire my guns almost every day is this unsafe because I'm breaking rule #3? No, not if you follow rule #1.
Even Jeff Cooper broke rule #1 and put a hole through his den window was it a GLOCK?
NO, It was a Smith 29, so do you consider the 29 unsafe because
the Colonel made the same mistake as the other people?
Those people who shot themselves were unsafe because they broke
rules #1-#3
It's not the GLOCK thats unsafe!!! It's the people not checking if it's loaded.
CajunBass
Member
Well, actually Hi-Points have a thumb safety, but other that that I agree with everything else you said. I've got an XD-9, but the grip safety was a non factor in my choice. I'd have been perfectly confident in a Glock also.
You have to pull the trigger on a XD also to break it down for cleaning. So what? I've pulled the trigger on a lot of guns I KNEW were unloaded and not one has ever gone off. The one time I pulled the trigger on one I THOUGHT was unloaded, it went off. Not the guns fault at all. I didn't check it. If you don't check your gun it will be YOUR fault not the guns.
Acenjay, are you saying that it is the fault of the tool and not the fault of the "individuals" who were using these tools? Be careful with your answer. The incidents that you mentioned could have happened with ANY firearm given the cirumstances. The rules were broken, and dumb things happen when peeps break the rules.
I understand that having to pull the trigger to render the Glock "safe" is not great, but when the rest of the rules are followed, an AD will not occur.
I understand that having to pull the trigger to render the Glock "safe" is not great, but when the rest of the rules are followed, an AD will not occur.
Phil DeGraves
Member
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Ithink the point should be this: The GLOCK is probably the easiest, simplest pistol to learn manual of arms, since it is essentially a single action pistol with no manual safeties. If you follow basic gun handling rules, it is as safe as any other gun.
However, the FACTS are, there are more NDs with GLOCKs, the easiest, simplest pistol in the world, than with any other system. This indicates to me that most PEOPLE (including Law Enforcement) are IDIOTS!!!
However, the FACTS are, there are more NDs with GLOCKs, the easiest, simplest pistol in the world, than with any other system. This indicates to me that most PEOPLE (including Law Enforcement) are IDIOTS!!!
AcenJay
Member
I agree that it is most likely user error if there is an AD/ND from pulling the trigger before field stripping a Glock. However, one of the persons mentioned that shot himself in the hand thought that he was following rule #1 and checking to see that it wasn't loaded, but he unfortunately forgot to eject the magazine first. Doesn't anyone think then that having to pull the trigger before such a routine thing as field stripping can be a contributing factor to a negligent discharge? Nobody is perfect, and a lax in carefulness can cause an accident. I believe that the trigger must be pulled on the XD too before stripping, but IIRC, there was some other nuance that does not allow the gun to fire, I don't remember exactly.
There was one unfortunate accident I read about when a cop was shot in the leg while re-holstering his Glock, because the little plastic piece on the end of the pull cord on a piece of clothing got lodged in front of the trigger. I don't really see any fault of his there for breaking any safety rules, but maybe it would not have happened if the Glock had a grip safety or thumb safety lever.
Aside from the issue concerning the trigger or lack of other external safeties, don't even get started on the number of people who say that the Glocks other than 9mm are prone to "Kaboom" because of unsupported chambers.
There was one unfortunate accident I read about when a cop was shot in the leg while re-holstering his Glock, because the little plastic piece on the end of the pull cord on a piece of clothing got lodged in front of the trigger. I don't really see any fault of his there for breaking any safety rules, but maybe it would not have happened if the Glock had a grip safety or thumb safety lever.
Aside from the issue concerning the trigger or lack of other external safeties, don't even get started on the number of people who say that the Glocks other than 9mm are prone to "Kaboom" because of unsupported chambers.
CountGlockula
Member
Hmmm The way that I was taught, and the way that we teach it in class is that the first part of unloading a magazine fed firearm is to drop the magazine. Then cycle the action. Then physically stick a finger in the mag well, and then after locking the action open (where applicable) physically stick a finger in the action at the breach to mentally reinforce that the firearm is indeed unloaded. It's the measure twice, cut once philosophy.
As for the officer that was reholstering and the firearm was supposedly "triggered" by the retention strap, that must have been one stiff strap, but yet if it were stiff enough to pull the trigger, would it have been bent enough to get into the trigger gaurd? Stranger things have happened, I suppose.
As for the officer that was reholstering and the firearm was supposedly "triggered" by the retention strap, that must have been one stiff strap, but yet if it were stiff enough to pull the trigger, would it have been bent enough to get into the trigger gaurd? Stranger things have happened, I suppose.
I look at the AD problem like this:
If everyone is driving a Ford then the most accidents are going to be with a Ford.
Glock's website states their pistols are in use in 65% of law enforcement agencies.
So of course they will have the most reported AD's in law enforcement. Remember we are Humans, and Humans make mistakes.
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