Well, I'm thinking of buying a rifle and I'm curious as to what some others would buy because I've got no strong preference. I own a Winchester 94 30-30, and a semi auto 1100 shotgun. I kind of like EBRs and was thinking of a colt in .223/5.56 but I'm not sure. I've got about $1500 to spend. The rifle would be used for target shooting and maybe some deer or hog hunting, maybe even caribou if I get the urge. I also sort of like the idea of longer range competition shooting but have never done any. So, any suggestions for a multipurpose rifle (maybe EBR) for $1500 or less?
buy curious male seeks EBR for companionship..maybe more
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TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Hunting what you list there I'd say you need .308 really. Long range competition as well.
DPMS Panther or similar would be my recommendation. $1200 or so and some for an optic.
DPMS Panther or similar would be my recommendation. $1200 or so and some for an optic.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Those are gonna be real tough to get anywhere with in competetive shooting.
There's a guy over on FAL files who has documented his attempt to use a FAL in those types of things.
Not going too well
Clipper
Member
DPMS makes an AR in .260rem...Ooooooooooh yeah...
skinewmexico
Member
Greatest thread title ever. Or the most clever.
JHansenAK47
Member
???
M1a or AR10
M1 Garand
TimboKhan
Member
Ha, great title.
Just my opinion, but I think that to cover all these intended uses, an AR (if you really want an AR) in .308 would suit your needs far better than one in .223. .223 is debateable in deer. I happen to think that with the proper bullets and good shot placement, it is enough. Others disagree to the point of calling it unethical. Kind of the same deal with hogs, although again, I think it is enough. Caribou... Probably can be done, but certainly .223 isn't anywhere near the best choice. Long range shooting can be done with a .223, provided that your long range doesn't mean much past 600 yards or so.
Don't get me wrong, I love the .223. I have 4 rifles chambered so, and only 2 of them are AR's. I just think that for your intended uses, you would be much, much happier with the .308 version. Even in cases where the .223 would be enough, the .308 would be better, and it extends your range for accurate target shooting substantially. The .308 is easy to reload, big enough for most anything you would shoot on this continent, and there are plenty of commercial loads if your not into reloading. I would also add that it is very, very popular and will thus be easy to find ammo for, even at Walmart.
Take it for what it's worth from a fan of both AR's and the .223: Get a .308.
Edit to add: Texas Rifleman is correct, by the way. An AR in .308 can be had for well under $1500.00. $1200.00 is pretty much spot on, but you might luck out and find one for even less. I don't have any problems with any of the other rifles mentioned, but none of them will beat an AR for accuracy on average. You might be able to find one particular FAL or Saiga or whatever that will best one particular AR, but on average the AR is always going to win that contest. That being said, the Saiga is a pretty good value. I own one in 7.62x39 with the modification done so that it will accept AK mags and my Dad owns one in .308, and both are nice shooters.
Just my opinion, but I think that to cover all these intended uses, an AR (if you really want an AR) in .308 would suit your needs far better than one in .223. .223 is debateable in deer. I happen to think that with the proper bullets and good shot placement, it is enough. Others disagree to the point of calling it unethical. Kind of the same deal with hogs, although again, I think it is enough. Caribou... Probably can be done, but certainly .223 isn't anywhere near the best choice. Long range shooting can be done with a .223, provided that your long range doesn't mean much past 600 yards or so.
Don't get me wrong, I love the .223. I have 4 rifles chambered so, and only 2 of them are AR's. I just think that for your intended uses, you would be much, much happier with the .308 version. Even in cases where the .223 would be enough, the .308 would be better, and it extends your range for accurate target shooting substantially. The .308 is easy to reload, big enough for most anything you would shoot on this continent, and there are plenty of commercial loads if your not into reloading. I would also add that it is very, very popular and will thus be easy to find ammo for, even at Walmart.
Take it for what it's worth from a fan of both AR's and the .223: Get a .308.
Edit to add: Texas Rifleman is correct, by the way. An AR in .308 can be had for well under $1500.00. $1200.00 is pretty much spot on, but you might luck out and find one for even less. I don't have any problems with any of the other rifles mentioned, but none of them will beat an AR for accuracy on average. You might be able to find one particular FAL or Saiga or whatever that will best one particular AR, but on average the AR is always going to win that contest. That being said, the Saiga is a pretty good value. I own one in 7.62x39 with the modification done so that it will accept AK mags and my Dad owns one in .308, and both are nice shooters.
Bill2e
Member
Looks like an AR-10 is in your future.
In reality the ammo is not that much more & you get a lot more BANG for the BUCK (or Hog)
Enjoy you new toy.
In reality the ammo is not that much more & you get a lot more BANG for the BUCK (or Hog)
Enjoy you new toy.
I'd say for that money, you could find a used AR15 and a CMP Garand and still have some money left over for ammo. You can buy some Greek ammo from CMP to go with the rifle.
If you go for a new AR, you'll have to cut back a little on the ammo but you could still manage both rifles. The AR would be for target shooting, maybe hogs; the Garand for about any type of game you could want. You can add optics to a Garand, but keep in mind they weren't really intended for that use. The M1C and M1D were afterthoughts once the rifle was designed and in production. You can find 2/5-round clips to make it hunting-legal.
With the price of ammo going up, .223 and CMP ammo are going to allow the most range time. If you got really wild, you could also consider an SKS or AK, but these won't be as good for long range shooting or service matches if that's what you have in mind. 7.62x39 is also still cheap and would work for hogs.
The AR10 and M1A platforms are both certainly good, but are going to be expensive to start with and that will eat into your ammo budget.
If you go for a new AR, you'll have to cut back a little on the ammo but you could still manage both rifles. The AR would be for target shooting, maybe hogs; the Garand for about any type of game you could want. You can add optics to a Garand, but keep in mind they weren't really intended for that use. The M1C and M1D were afterthoughts once the rifle was designed and in production. You can find 2/5-round clips to make it hunting-legal.
With the price of ammo going up, .223 and CMP ammo are going to allow the most range time. If you got really wild, you could also consider an SKS or AK, but these won't be as good for long range shooting or service matches if that's what you have in mind. 7.62x39 is also still cheap and would work for hogs.
The AR10 and M1A platforms are both certainly good, but are going to be expensive to start with and that will eat into your ammo budget.
JHansenAK47
Member
Probably going to be offset to the left. (Is a problem when you have to correct for windage at different ranges) Unless you forward mounted it somehow. Besides if it doesn't already have a base or threaded for a base people will hate you for modifying a beautiful Garand rifle. I can hit the osama target (man sized steel target) at the Browning gun range by the gold spike museum at 1200 yds with iron sights. That is first shot if it's not windy.
41magsnub
Member
'
There are no mod scope kits for Garands out there.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=92813026 among many
This one (also available directly from CMP) and the one that replaces the rear sight are what I was referring to for practical use. There are after-market M1D kits available, but they require rebarreling the receiver, which would only make sense if you needed a new barrel anyway.
Having any type of optics would disqualify it for a service-rifle match.
If you want one gun to do it all I would agree with those that are recommending an AR in .308. A .223 is simply not a sufficient round to hunt Deer (when I talk deer I mean mule) and Caribou IMHO and there is a chance it isn't a legal round for hunting them either.
There are a number of evil .308 rifles that I like: FAL, PTR 91, Saiga, M1A, etc. The first three are not good choices for competetive long range shooting or the type of hunting I do (I dont know your terrain etc). The M1A will likely run you more than $1500.
Another option besides the AR in .308 would be to buy a bolt gun in any number of calibers for hunting and long range shooting and get an evil black rifle for when you feel like playing Rambo.
One could purchase and convert a Saiga and buy a more than adequate bolt gun for under $1500, and you would have some $$$ left to put towards a decent optic. This route would allow cheaper plinking ammo in the EBR and each could be more specialized.
There are a number of evil .308 rifles that I like: FAL, PTR 91, Saiga, M1A, etc. The first three are not good choices for competetive long range shooting or the type of hunting I do (I dont know your terrain etc). The M1A will likely run you more than $1500.
Another option besides the AR in .308 would be to buy a bolt gun in any number of calibers for hunting and long range shooting and get an evil black rifle for when you feel like playing Rambo.
One could purchase and convert a Saiga and buy a more than adequate bolt gun for under $1500, and you would have some $$$ left to put towards a decent optic. This route would allow cheaper plinking ammo in the EBR and each could be more specialized.
Thanks for the responses folks. So far I have to say I'm taking a liking to the DPMS LR-308. It seems to get good reviews and the price is right. I wish there was a place you could go try out all the brands and even some of the different barrel configurations from the individual manufacturers.
MassMark
Member
Now that was a funny headline...
My advice: Skip the AR-10, Saiga, etal and go get yourself a Springfield Armory M1A Scout and call it a day...You'll be glad you did.
My advice: Skip the AR-10, Saiga, etal and go get yourself a Springfield Armory M1A Scout and call it a day...You'll be glad you did.
Fly320s
Member
The caliber aspect has been covered, so I'll hit on the platform.
If you're just shooting targets and hunting, you probably don't need the mag capacity and quick-shooting ability of an AR type rifle. You have the hunting aspect covered with your lever-action .30-30. As far as the target shooting goes, are you looking to make very tight groups at known distances or do you want to shoot quickly, but accurately, from 1 yard to 300 yards? If precision is your game, you will be better served by a bolt action. Yes, the AR can be precise, but bolt guns can do it better.
I think the AR is an excellent platform. It has great ergonomics, it's light weight, easily modified, and has low recoil. I also think that ARs are better suited for quick action shooting for targets inside 300 yards. Yes, they are used in competition out to 1,000 yards, but the majority of those guns are specially built for competition. The AR has to be used, in some sports, because that is the standard service rifle today. If lever-action Winchesters chambered in .30-30 were the standard-issue rifle, then we would see those on the firing lines shooting to 1,000 yards.
All that said, if you want an AR just because you like them, go buy it. Just remember, a plain-jane AR will not be the best rifle for every scenario.
JohnMc
Member
Harvester,
IIRC, if you're going to C-eh, N-eh, D-eh for caribou, a semi's out. Think bolt action
That said, the DPMS LR-308 for deer, caribou, and such is a fine option.
And damn, sir, that's a funny headline.
IIRC, if you're going to C-eh, N-eh, D-eh for caribou, a semi's out. Think bolt action
That said, the DPMS LR-308 for deer, caribou, and such is a fine option.
And damn, sir, that's a funny headline.
Thefabulousfink
Member
I would do some serious thinking about what you want this rifle for. The desire for a multi-role rifle is a common dream but runs into the harsh reality that what is good for one task is poor for another. .308 is a great round for shooting long distances and hitting with lots of force, but it kicks hard and is heavy. .223 is light and fast with quick follow-up shots, but it looses lots of energy at long range.
You say that you want an EBR but then list a bunch of activities that are better suited to a bolt action gun. Most competition shooting has strict rules regarding the type of weapons that you may use. I would look into the various styles, see which ones interested me and then by a gun specifically for competition shooting.
Generally the most accurate EBRs at ranges over 300 yrds are:
M1A
AR-10
M1 Garand (with a new barrel, etc.)
For 3-gun style competitions at close range get something light and handy:
AR carbine
AK-47 or 74
For Hunting you will not normally need the level of accuracy of a competition gun, but you will need at least a .30 cal (7.62mm). .223 is simply not strong enough to reliably kill large game like deer and many states do not allow its use. This does open up several new options, however, because battle rifles that aren't quite up to competition standards can make great hunting guns.
Take a look at:
AK-47
SKS
Saiga
PTR 91
Cetme
FN-FAL
And, of course...
M1A & M1 Garand
My advice....
An M1A or Garand seem like they will fit your interests the best, but they are more battle rifles than assault rifles.
However, since I love the FN-FAL, I can't end this post without recommending one of these fine rifles from DSA:
http://www.dsarms.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SA58PRD308
You say that you want an EBR but then list a bunch of activities that are better suited to a bolt action gun. Most competition shooting has strict rules regarding the type of weapons that you may use. I would look into the various styles, see which ones interested me and then by a gun specifically for competition shooting.
Generally the most accurate EBRs at ranges over 300 yrds are:
M1A
AR-10
M1 Garand (with a new barrel, etc.)
For 3-gun style competitions at close range get something light and handy:
AR carbine
AK-47 or 74
For Hunting you will not normally need the level of accuracy of a competition gun, but you will need at least a .30 cal (7.62mm). .223 is simply not strong enough to reliably kill large game like deer and many states do not allow its use. This does open up several new options, however, because battle rifles that aren't quite up to competition standards can make great hunting guns.
Take a look at:
AK-47
SKS
Saiga
PTR 91
Cetme
FN-FAL
And, of course...
M1A & M1 Garand
My advice....
An M1A or Garand seem like they will fit your interests the best, but they are more battle rifles than assault rifles.
However, since I love the FN-FAL, I can't end this post without recommending one of these fine rifles from DSA:
http://www.dsarms.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SA58PRD308
Gator
Member
That has to be the most disturbing thread title ever.
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