Bylaws of a shooting club.

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So one member suggested the club say the Pledge of Allegiance AND be Christian-only?!?!

I would have to suggest that the club vote on removing this guy from it's ranks because he's going to be a future problem. A BIG future problem.
 
We have Christian clubs all over the place; they are called churches.

I'm at a gun club to shoot, not engage in enforcing my religion or social ideals on others. I would not be part of a club that adopted that rule, and if whoever suggested it was a board member I would take every opportunity to help get him out of there.
 
It is not big 63 members only, and sorry guys there are no assets to bust up. Everyone has brought up very interesting points some stronger than others. Normally I am not the type to get involved in anything my life is pretty sweet, unless someone creates a ripple. Than I get to look at the particular individual like an insect crossing my path...it is my choice whether I step on it or let it pass.

Your views will definitely be vocalized in such a manner at the next meeting that hopefully will shed light to the club. I had no idea many of you felt like I did. Maybe this is what was needed, someone to speak out because there are those that will remain quiet so as not to be singled out or not to create trouble.
 
What's the problem?

If you don't want to utter the words, "under God," then just don't say those words. If you don't want to say the pledge at all, then just stand respectively as others say it. If you don't want to stand, then sit and deal with it. If you can't stand to hear others say the Pledge in your presence, then leave the room...

You don't HAVE to conform, but a bit of tolerance for the quirks of others would be mature and considerate.

- - - Yoda
 
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I wouldn't have a problem with the pledge, but to restrict membership based on religious beliefs I would have a problem with. I wouldn't join such a club, and if a club I was a member of adopted such a rule, I would politely terminate my membership.

And I'm a preacher's kid who still attends church at least twice a week. One thing my father instilled in us was that we still respected those with different beliefs, in spite of our differences of opinion. I remember a guy getting mad at him because he wouldn't sign a petition against gambling. His reply was that while he didn't agree with it, he had no right to make that decision for other people. While he is a preacher, he is also a Vietnam veteran and takes freedom very seriously. I think he's spot on, and while this example differs some, the principle is the same.
 
Yoda said:
If you don't want to utter the words, "under God," then just don't say those words. If you don't want to say the pledge at all, then just stand then respectively as others say it. If you don't want to stand, then sit and deal with it. If you can't stand to hear others say the Pledge in your presence, then leave the room...

You don't HAVE to conform, but a bit of tolerance for the quirks of others would be mature and considerate.

- - - Yoda
Click to expand...
I do not have a problem in saying the pledge of allegiance and prefer to say it in its original form not in the form that is politically correct. This thread was not about the pledge of allegiance, it is about the proposal of an only christian member club. I believe you miss read the opening statement I made.
 
Not cool, if I were you I'd see how it goes, speak your mind at meetings, and if they pass the measure, let them know how you feel and then find some other club to go to.

It's their club so if they wanted to say everyone has to say the pledge, be a christian, and wear purple socks and orange shoes at meetings then they can. But nothing says you have to be a part of it.

Personally I think they are shutting themselves away. What if some guy like me is a great club member, always cleans up, volunteers to help whenever they can with work at the range, helps others there out etc. but I'm an atheist so I'm no good enough for them? Yeah OK, cya guys later! I'd say.
 
FLAvalanche said:
So we should be tolerant to bigots? Next you're going to tell me to hug Al Queda?
Click to expand...
That's a false equivalence. Al Qaeda is significantly different from someone a person who voices an opinion. If the person were to start threatening or physically harms the club if their position isn't taken, then they should be expelled.

I'm looking forward to seeing if the OP will be able to convince the club that the proposal doesn't advance the club's goals but potentially retards it.
 
FLAvalanche said:
So we should be tolerant to bigots? Next you're going to tell me to hug Al Queda?
Click to expand...

Yes, we should be tolerant of bigots to hold their bigoted opinions. Remember, not everyone has the same opinion of bigotry and others might be offended by your speech, too. As Voltaire said: “I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” Freedom of speech is your freedom to say whatever you want, even it it makes you look like an ass.

I don't see how this relates to people who may want to shoot you. :scrutiny:
 
One thing continues to be obvious-most Americans know squat about parliamentary procedure or the US Constitution and US or state laws. There is a gut feeling shared by most participants here (as is usual) that something is wrong with changing an organization as the OP suggested but few seem to realize that it is immoral, unethical and (most importantly) against the law.

It's really sad that arrogant social progressives and weak-willed mamby-pamby types have removed important American classes like civics from most, if not all education in the US. A good civics class would spend at least a couple weeks on the operations of meetings, the importance of procedure (parliamentary or other) and the uniquely democratic nature of our dealings with one another. Today far too much emphasis is placed on the 'rule of the majority' and the equally important (most parliamentarians say the more important) 'protection of the minority' is 'swept under the bus'. The OP's group is just another glaring example of the failure and activity.

One question was aimed directly at me so I'll answer it. Why would I take a few knowledgeable friends and bust-up a club such as the one the OP cites?

There are a spectrum of reasons: at one end is that it is un-American-it violates the law. At the other end, it probably has some dollar assets that can be applied as damages-and if not 'in the group' then certainly 'as individuals'. It's against their own rules; one part of busting-up such a group is proving they violated their own rules without sufficient cause; this makes individuals personally responsible and liable. It's a good bet some if not all of them have assets to forfeit. A wide range of discriminatory and financially damaging actions will be committed against members should 'the group' make this (out of charter/out of procedure) exclusionary modifications to their rules.

The vast majority of lawsuits are about 10s of thousands of dollars (and often less), not millions. We've stalled similar activities in a clubs of 35 members. Their annualized income (dues and activities) hover about $20,000 (in a good year). They usually have no real property (land). The do, typically have tangible assets with some dollar value. Even more important is that normally several members involved in the illegal activities are business owners with significant personal fortunes! In the end the groups paid all fees, sizable damage and penalty awards and most continue to live under court scrutiny and a set of permanent injunctions restricting their activities.

Their membership is permanently stalled and these folks continue to pay-down the loans used to satisfy the judgment. More than one individual in these group paid judgments from personal funds after they were found to have acted outside the groups rules. (Take particular note of this last fact-the dollar amount was significant, houses, cars and non-retirement savings along with future incomes hung in the balance!) Discrimination is easy to prove and can involve federal jail time if the offense is sufficiently egregious to garner federal scrutiny).
 
Guess I've missed something. If you don't agree with something a particular club does or does not do ~ don't join it.
 
Look, folks, the basic issue is the interjection of patriotism and religion into the bylaws of a shooting organization. Too many of the posts in this thread are wandering off that issue.

SFAIK, the religious thing is against federal law. If I'm correct in that belief, that's the end of discussion on that subject.

As far as the Pledge, that's customary for many social organizations. My own opinion is that it is not something which belongs in the bylaws. The organization supports RKBA and shooting, right? Should the bylaws limit membership to US citizens only? How about the stray Canadian? :D Why offend such a person with a mandatory recitation of the pledge as a condition of membership? That's silly.

Bylaws should be limited to the fundamental purposes of the organization, Promotion of RKBA is not furthered by hostility--which is why THR has rules about courtesy and politeness.
 
I dont see an issue. From what Ive heard its a private club, if they want to limit membership to patriotic christians thats there prerogative. To the best of my knowledge they arent breaking any law. The seperation of church and state is not a law. You wont find it anywhere in the constitution. And as far as I know it doesnt exist in any states law. Its a quote that ppl have run away with. A suggestion from Thomas Jefferson, I believe? Im sure there have been laws made based on it, but its never been a law in itself. ok nough of my rant on that.

Say I want to start a gun club for the avid golf loving labrador retriever owning sentimental nudists. I mean that would be pretty silly and I doubt I would get any members Or I would lose most of my current ones. I doubt they would agree with the direction I was going. I think its just as silly to try and retaliate from some perceived slight. Better off going and joining another group or even better starting your own judgment free club, like planetfitness. As long as they arent hurting anyone or breaking any laws let them do what they want.

I dont know maybe I am biased? I do happen to be a christian and I love my country. Trying to keep as clear head as Im able I really dont see they are doing anything wrong. A little odd yes
 
"Bylaws should be limited to the fundamental purposes of the organization, RKBA is not furthered by hostility"-- this is exactly the ammunition I need to bring up at the next meeting". Thanks Art Eatman.

And jfdavis58 your statement is very eloquent.

Thanks for your time and input.
 
It's a private club. They can do whatever they want.

However, if I were you, and such a measure had a hope of passing, I'd try to get back my application and member fees and leave the club.

As far as the actions of that man, he is only serving to damage the cause of RKBA. Selfish fellow.

So we should be tolerant to bigots? Next you're going to tell me to hug Al Queda?
Click to expand...

non sequitur. Just because one tolerates someone does not mean one has to approve of or love that person.
 
I am not leaving until such measures have passed. In the meantime the individual who brought it up can leave if this by law has passed. With all the information I have gathered this matter will be resolved soon and hopefully everyone will get back to shooting like before.
 
There's no place for religion, of any kind, in sport.
Don't know about Texas, but up here, discriminating based on religion could get the club sued. And Canada is far less litgitious than anywhere, Stateside.
 
Too much time on their hands.....shooting club = shooting issues.....K.I.S.S
 
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