C&R Holders - Where's the love???

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Onward Allusion

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Does anyone know why so many FFL merchants and even other C&R holders are so adverse in accepting a C&R License for selling/shipping obvious 50+ year old guns? Is it a lack of information on what qualifies as a C&R firearm? Is it because they're afraid that a C&R is somehow bogus? I thought, short of a site inspection/approval from the ATF and local business zoning, C&R holders went through the same background check as a FFL? Am I wrong? I just want my S&W M&P Pre-Model 10 w/o having to pay another $25 in transfer fees! :confused:
 
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Could state law be the problem? I can purchase a long gun with my C&R and receive it through the mail directly, but a C&R handgun still must go through an 001 FFL per NYS law.
 
Who are you buying from? If it's from someone like J&G, they know the routine, but unless the seller is familiar with the C&R process, they would be wary (justified) in shipping a gun, any gun, direct. Why should he take a chance on going to prison?
However, I share your concern. Are you sure BATF has your particular gun listed as C&R eligible? Just because it's over 50 years old, doesn't automatically make it C&R.
 
Are you sure BATF has your particular gun listed as C&R eligible? Just because it's over 50 years old, doesn't automatically make it C&R.
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This is another area that many are confused over - and rightly so... Below is an excerpt from the ATF site.

Firearms Curios or Relics List
A regulation implementing Federal firearms laws, 27 CFR Section 478.11, defines C&R firearms as those which are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons.

To be recognized as C&R items, 478.11 specifies that firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas of such firearms;
Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and
Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event.

One of the main reasons, I got my C&R is that there are a lot of nice revolvers that fall into the 50 year old category and I enjoy old shootable revolvers.
 
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I have never had any issue buying C&R guns anywhere anytime with my FFL3.
Must be an training opportunity here.

I would ask the seller what the specific issue is friend.
 
Some sellers are wary because there is no way to check if the license is legitimate. C&R's aren't on the FFL EZCheck system.
 
deadin said:
Some sellers are wary because there is no way to check if the license is legitimate. C&R's aren't on the FFL EZCheck system.
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That doesn't make sense. I believe you the government is what I'm talking about. I find that many private owners weren't aware of a C&R or what it entails so they rightfully fallback on what they know.

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Dealers are rightfully terrified of the jack booted thugs called the ATF (Always Think Forfeiture). The ATF keeps redefining what qualifies as C&R to eliminate as many guns as possible from C&R status and dealers fear making a technical or recordkeeping error and having the winged monkeys working for that anti-American Commie Eric Holder come swooping down on them.

I recently tried to buy a 1934 Colt revolver with my C&R only to have him get all squeamish because the original 6" barrel had been shortened and the ATF is saying that if a gun has been modified from its original configuration it is no longer C&R. Another example of the brain trust that is the ATF (IQ comparable to a bag of potato chips) disqualifying guns for any reason their little, bitty pea brains can imagine.

I gave up after that. I will let my mostly useless C&R expire. I am sick to death of dealing with the petty, small minded, moronic bureaucrats who constitute our federal government. They can all go straight to Hell (to quote that most esteemed and glorious leader from California, the left honorable* Maxine Waters).

* I know it's supposed to right honorable but there's nothing right about this cretin.
 
deadin
Some sellers are wary because there is no way to check if the license is legitimate. C&R's aren't on the FFL EZCheck system.
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C&Rs can be verified by calling BATFE's EZ-Check- 877-560-2435. C&R Holders aren't verifiable online for privacy reasons.
 
I keep my 03 for those items that will be shipped. The LGS will not take my C&R Being in Illinois where we have a 24 hour wait on long guns and a 72 hour wait on hand guns. I don't even ask anymore.

Keep in mind Illinois also uses a FOID card...firearms owners ID and we have no concealed carry....goodness!
 
I've been fortunate and not had real issues with a dealer accepting my C&R.

I had one guy on Gunbroker that was unwilling to sell to me. Ok, no biggie. Moved on.

Personally I do not blame dealers for being skittish. Especially if the gun in question has been modified.

My local Pawn shop even accepts my C&R. Just bought a 1957 Ruger Mark 1 from him.
 
Mostly 1) fear because they aren't sure 2) dislike for the idea as it may be viewed (by some) as encouraging folks to by-pass a type 1 for service then whey CAN order direct 3) not being able to check the status of C/R online 4) local/state laws (whether ACTUALLY extant or just perceived to exist in the mind of the seller or 5) because some gun dealers (we have all met some) appear to be most interested in sitting on stools spounting half-truths, non-sense, and saying "NO!"----thankfully, these are in the minority. Most are just REALLY shy of doing things a different way than the usual type-1 transfer to 'private' citizen.
 
Thanks for the link! I will keep a copy of it with my license in case I run across someone that won't accept my 03.
I do wish that the BATFE would post this information as part of the on-line eZ Check site, rather then just inform the user that they will get an error message if they try to validate a C&R.

(I just sent an email to the ATF Webmaster concerning this....)
 
I decided any gun seller that won't ship to an 03, or inconvenience themselves to ship to CA (where gun owners I think need the support of the gun community) I go elsewhere, even if the gun I'm looking for isn't 03 eligible and I don't live in CA. Fortunately, that's easy to do on the net.
 
antiquus said:
I decided any gun seller that won't ship to an 03, or inconvenience themselves to ship to CA (where gun owners I think need the support of the gun community) I go elsewhere, even if the gun I'm looking for isn't 03 eligible and I don't live in CA. Fortunately, that's easy to do on the net.
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Agreed, I don't get offended I just go elsewhere.

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The only problems I ever had when I had a C&R is with UPS. They will not ship on a C&R in this neck of the woods anyway. I had to ship with Fed-x.....chris3
 
ball3006 said:
The only problems I ever had when I had a C&R is with UPS. They will not ship on a C&R in this neck of the woods anyway. I had to ship with Fed-x.....chris3
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For whatever it's worth, UPS shipped my C&R shotgun to another C&R. Maybe my UPS depot was more informed than yours, who knows.
 
antiquus said:
I decided any gun seller that won't ship to an 03, or inconvenience themselves to ship to CA (where gun owners I think need the support of the gun community) I go elsewhere, even if the gun I'm looking for isn't 03 eligible and I don't live in CA. Fortunately, that's easy to do on the net.
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This is what I did with my P64.

A seller said he didn't care what the BATF said, a gun made 30 years ago should go through an FFL01. I said good day, the reason i have an FFL03 and subjected myself to the background check was to avoid paying a transfer fee for a firearm the government has deemed I can purchase myself without an intermediary.

It's just easier to move on. Some folks are more comfortable with FFL03's and some aren't. I honestly can't fault anyone who fears that a sale will come back to haunt them for whatever reason. Prison can't be fun, and neither is permanently losing your ability to own/purchase firearms.

The BATF clearly states that any firearms 50 years or older is considered C&R eligible and does not need to explicitly be on their list - otherwise their list would be REALLY long!!
 
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