Caliber Over Kill

[RhinoDefense]

I think of matching the caliber to the game in the way of making a solid and quick kill that doesn't destroy a lot of the meat. For non-game animals, dead is dead.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

The other thing is, we can't be flinging .30 cal Magnum loads across the landscape around here without risk of a richocet taking out somebodys Herford cow, or 1/4 $mil John Deere tractor.

Is there a such thing as overkill? No, IMO.
However, in the above situation you need to excercise common sense when choosing a round. There is a such thing as overgunned in some situations. That's why some counties have gone to shotgun with slugs or BP only, to keep those things at a minimum.
If there is no concern of what is beyond your target though, shoot what you want and let others do the same.

 

[Sniper66]

I am of the opinion that the caliber should match the task, whether shooting meat animals or varmints. I am primarly a small game/varmint hunter. When shooting prairie dogs, I use .22, .17HMR, .223, .204, and .243, in that order. My goal is to eliminate as many of the pesky critters as possible to help out my rancher friends. So, when I slip into a field, I do so as quietly as possible and shoot the quietest rifle I have at the closest dogs to avoid scaring off the others. When I use the .243, I only do so with very long shots and it makes quite a bang. I prefer the .17HMR as much as possible. In the wide open prairie it barely makes a sound and the neighbors in the next mile section never hear it. For coyotes, I prefer the .223 or .204 shooting V-max bullets. My reloads for both are between 3500-4000 fps and pack quite a wallop. Certainly my .243 will dispatch them quickly, but I don't really need it. I shoot squirrels and love to eat them, so I make head shots with my .22 when I can. In late fall or early winter, when there are no leaves and I can spot squirrels 75-100 yards away, I shoot my .17HMR. Still try for the head or shoulder, which leaves the best meat intact, even with the 17gr V-Max. I shoot pheasants with heavy field load 7.5 or 8 instead of the usual 5s or 6s. I find that it whacks them like hitting them with a tennis racket and is less likey to penetrate the breast. My brother is a deer and big game hunter. He has killed dozens of deer with his .243 and everything else, bears and African big game, with a 300 Weatherby mag. So, these are my ideas.

Tom

 

[natman]

Overkill is underrated.

IMO, there's no such thing as overkill. There is such a thing as using a heavier cartridge than is strictly necessary, but as long as you can still shoot it accurately and don't mind the recoil, go for it.

There is such a thing as underkill. Sure a [insert animal here] might drop to a [insert small cartridge here] this time, but you will have a larger probability of a cartridge related failure than if you used something a bit bigger.

Rule of thumb: Look at the game and decide what cartridge is most suitable for it. The problems come from picking the rifle first, then the cartridge, then trying to talk yourself into believing that it's enough for elk, just because somebody somewhere shot an elk with it once and it died.

 

[Tom Held]

overkill?

Shot placement is still the key regardless of the firearm. There are air rifles now perfectly capable taking foxes and coyotes cleanly, easily equivalent to 22 long rifle. I've hunted in Africa and the preferred caliber for ALL game is the 375 H&H regardless if you are hunting dangerous game or 20 pound Klippspringers or 1,000 pound eland and the damage to plains game game using solid bullets is virtually nothing but a small entrance and exit hole.

 

[788Ham]

I believe there is such a thing as overkill. My opinions only! Why do most folks feel comfortable using a .300 Win. Mag to hunt deer? I don't know why, but it seems to me thats whats considered overkill. If the same deer can be killed DRT with a .250 Savage, or a .243 at 200 yards, then "why" do folks think a .300 Win mag is better? Because it throws a bigger, heavier bullet at 2000 fps faster, makes it a better round, rifle? I don't see the reasoning of this. I've seen in our hunting party on one occasion, a guy with a .300 H&H gut shot a deer at 75 yards, when told he probably ruined a lot of meat, his response was, "Well, I hit the ba***rd didn't I?" This is my feelings and thoughts on being over gunned and why overkill comes about. I understand also, that a lot of folks use the .300 caliber rifle for elk, a bigger, heavier animal, but come on, using a 250 grain bullet for deer? If this is the only firearm in your stable, I guess thats all you've got, but bigger doesn't always make it better.

 

[BADUNAME37]

When I used too small a rifle to hunt woodchucks, most times, they would scurry back to their hole in the ground leaving a trail of blood, making me wonder if it was a good shot or not.

NOT ANY MORE!
A .270 shows me immediately whether the shot was good! Nearly ALL shots are Good when using that caliber against a woodchuck!
The local coyotes and foxes love me (until I see THEM).

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

LOL, FDF??? A .270 for woodies? Lawdy buddy, you really don't like them do ya! I like watching them literally explode when I hit them with a 50gr V-Max out of my .220swift Or hitting a P-Dog with the same and watch a "star burst"

 

[BADUNAME37]

LOL
I've met the red mist of vaporization before!

 

[Steel Talon]

Well for some people "Regular Dead" just isn't good enough

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Overkill is underrated.

Love it. That's gonna be my new motto.

I've seen in our hunting party on one occasion, a guy with a .300 H&H gut shot a deer at 75 yards, when told he probably ruined a lot of meat, his response was, "Well, I hit the ba***rd didn't I?"

You can't use one moron as an example and apply that logic to everyone who chooses to hunt with a larger caliber than you do. And you're right, bigger doesn't necessarily mean better. But if it's what snaps your cap, then go for it.

I think it's hilarious that so many people are so personally invested in what someone else chooses to use. If Billy Bob Joe Danny Frank wants to use a .470 Nitro to hunt whitetails, it's his money and his shoulder. As long as he isn't endangering anyone, leave him alone.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

As long as he isn't endangering anyone, leave him alone.

That right there is my point exactly. Under certain hunting conditions and on certain animals, there is indeed a serious safety issue. Other than that, whatever floats your boat, paddle away!

 

[T.R.]

I feel that overkill regarding hunting is a foolish concept.

But overkill regarding other subjects has some merit. For example, two people living in a 6 bedroom home is overkill.

TR

 

[natman]

I'd rather use a cartridge that's a little more powerful than necessary than a cartridge that's a little less powerful than necessary.

 

[buck460XVR]

Overkill only happens when one is substituting caliber for skill or when the choice in caliber presents a safety issue. Other than that, dead is dead. Amazes me when folks cry overkill when I mention hunting deer with my .460. Mention hunting them with my .357s and they scream "undergunned".

Use what you have, what your comfortable with, what your good with and what works. Other folks should do the same.

 

[Maxicooper]

Would .375 H&H for hog hunting be overkilled?

 

[Tom Held]

nope

Not at all if it kills the hog and you can afford the ammunition. A friend of mine who hunts africa once a year hunts hogs first just to get practice swinging the rifle, bringing it up quickly, getting off two shots and reloading with two more held in his left hand between fingers (sxs rifle). Says the practice is valuable particularly if you plan to hunt dangerous game. You don't always get to shoot off of sticks or a rest.

 

[nathan]

If you shoot a dove with 00 bk then what s left is barely nothing. I d say that s overkill. you kill it alright but no meat to bring home which is the purpose to take out game.

 

[Tom Held]

agreed

A 375 is just like any other dangerous game rifle. But if you're shooting solids they do less damage than a 22-250 or 243. Just an entrance and exit hole on small game.

 

[wildchild2010]

No such thing as over kill, unless you destroy the meat you want to eat, then yes it is over kill.

What toilet paper is better the cheap or the expensive one?

 

[WardenWolf]

8mm Mauser for javelina. It's one of two choices I have. That, or my SGL-21 with 7.62x39 roundnose soft points. The Mauser will wreck the meat unless I shoot the thing in the head. On the other hand, the power of the 8mm round pretty much guarantees a kill if you get a hit in or in close proximity to the brain. Needless to say, I'm going for the AK.

 

[Art Eatman]

Dunno 'bout "overkill", but I'd venture that sometimes an '06 hot load is more than is needed:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16431&d=1135262262

 

[quartermaster]

I believe that overkill doesn't come into play if the safety factor is considered as well as ethical kills without wasting meat if the game is to be consumed. If a 300wsm is to be used for coyotes or woodchucks, hopefully the correct bullet would be used to prevent richocets and make immediate kills. Even a coyote doesn't deserve to suffer.

Why have 16 different calibers if the selection is irrelevant to the game being hunted?

 

[H&Hhunter]

I haven't done either, but my guess is that a 375 H&H would probably make less of a mess than a 25-06 if you happened to clip the shoulder of a deer inside 200 yds or so.

THIS ^^^^ is exactly correct.

A 375 is just like any other dangerous game rifle. But if you're shooting solids they do less damage than a 22-250 or 243. Just an entrance and exit hole on small game.

This is also correct except you can add in expanding bullets as they do less meat damage as well.

Would .375 H&H for hog hunting be overkilled?

I am going to throw in my $.02 for what it's worth as I have killed a bunch of light game with heavy DG rounds. Including the .375H&H, .404 Jeffery, .416 Remington, .458 Lott, .470NE, and I've seen light animals killed with the .500 NE and .500 Jeffery.

First off the .375H&H gets WAY more credit for being a "heavy" caliber than it deserves and that's because it kills game and acts like it should be a heavy caliber. But in reality it's not. The .375H&H is at the very bottom end of the legal medium calibers for dangerous game hunting. It puts out just over 4,000 Ftlbs of energy with a 270 or a 300 gr bullet. The rifle is very flat shooting with a 250 or a 270 gr bullet and with a 300 or 350 gr bullet tends to act just like one of it bigger 40 cal+ cousins on game. With the 270 or 250 gr loads act more like a .338 or big .30-06.

Almost all of the new super zipper .33's like the RUM's and Weatherby and such put out more muzzle energy than a .375H&H heck a .300 Weatherby class .308 with a 180 bullet matches the energy of a .375 H&H. I don't consider a round to be a "heavy" until we get to .458 cal and up, 500gr bullet and up and then it has to put out 5,000 lbs + muzzle energy. I think that there is a lot of overestimation and misunderstanding about the .375H&H due to it's African roots and the stories that people read about it that tend to place it in the realm of African heavy game hunting legend. Capstick wrote about the .375 as if it were the hammer of Thor. It's really not all that powerful but it does kill far greater than it's numbers would indicate on paper. And that is due in large part for the simple fact that it's easy to shoot and folks tend to be very accurate with it. Always amazing to me when in the field folks find that I am hunting deer or elk with a .375H&H and invariably if they aren't in the know will comment about using an "elephant" rifle for poor little old elk. Of course the same is not said about a .338 WM which puts out just about the same muzzle energy with a 20 gr lighter bullet at the same velocity as my 270 gr load and it does so with .037 less muzzle diameter? For all intensive purposes the same power level capable of all the same things that the ole H&H is the only difference being perception as Capstick wrote about the .375H&H and not the .338 WM.

The .375H&H is a fairly mild round to shoot and even with expanding rounds does less meat damage than a super velocity light round does. The .375H&H does what it's been doing well for over 100 years now it provides just enough power and penetration on heavy game and performs like a champ on everything else. I've killed multiple hundreds of head of game with a .375H&H from coyotes to cape buffalo the majority of shear numbers being feral hogs but a good amount of my elk and caribou and stuff like that were with a .375H&H and I've never once found the H&H to lacking in any way especially in the meat damage department. My go to load is a 270 gr TSX @ about 2700 FPS. It simply does not tear up meat.

I've poked multiple hogs and other light stuff like wildebeest in addition to elephant and buffalo with my .470 NE and my .458 Lott, again it simply does not tear up meat like say a .300 mag or a 7MM tends to. Nice clean entry and exit holes and that is with expanding bullets these big rounds simply zip through light animals and don't transfer a lot of energy leaving minimal damage. The same can be said for all of the heavy and medium rounds I've mentioned above.

Here is the one and only thing that I will caution about using heavies on light game. BEWARE of what's behind the animal these big heavy rounds will over penetrate and they carry a LONG way after sailing through a critter, they don't act like your "average" deer rounds. I just about killed a hunting partner one time with my .470. I didn't know that he was up the same draw I was working. I jumped a hog and shot him in the rear as he ran off. The 500 gr Barnes went all the way trough the hog lengthwise exited the neck hit the ground and I heard it whine off into the nether lands of Western Texas.

My buddy was about 200 yards up the draw and told me later that he heard me shoot and then heard what sounded like a buzz saw go flying by, very close to his head. It was my "spent" expanded bullet zinging away that went by. Y'all be careful out there playing with these heavy rifles.

 

[Maxicooper]

The .375H&H is a fairly mild round to shoot and even with expanding rounds does less meat damage than a super velocity light round does. The .375H&H does what it's been doing well for over 100 years now it provides just enough power and penetration on heavy game and performs like a champ on everything else. I've killed multiple hundreds of head of game with a .375H&H from coyotes to cape buffalo the majority of shear numbers being feral hogs but a good amount of my elk and caribou and stuff like that were with a .375H&H and I've never once found the H&H to lacking in any way especially in the meat damage department. My go to load is a 270 gr TSX @ about 2700 FPS. It simply does not tear up meat.

Thanks for the post. The box below has just got my name on it.



Now, I'm ready for "Hogzilla" !!!