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California DOJ to return confiscated rifles.

Discussion in 'Legal' started by jsalcedo, Feb 6, 2004.

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  1. jsalcedo

    jsalcedo Member

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    CHAGRINED CALIFORNIA DOJ GUN POLICE
    RETURN IMPROPERLY CONFISCATED RIFLES
    DOJ Firearms Division's Own Agents
    Confused About What Constitutes An "Assault Weapon"

    On November 25, 2003 the California DOJ announced the seizure of a number of
    illegal "assault weapons" from a Laguna Niguel gun dealer. One of the guns
    on display in the store was a Robinson Armament model M96 rifle. Believing
    this rifle to be an illegal "assault weapon," DOJ Firearms Division agents
    used the store's transaction records to locate each purchaser of the M96
    rifle, then went door to door, often in the dead of night, confiscating the
    firearms under threat of criminal prosecution. One such raid was
    videotaped. No compensation was offered for the seized firearms.

    Only problem: the M96 rifle is perfectly legal and is not an "assault
    weapon." Thankfully, higher ups at the DOJ Firearms Division got involved
    at the urging of CRPA and others, and reversed the Agents' interpretation.

    The confiscations illustrate the difficulty in determining whether a firearm
    is an "assault weapon." Even the specialized DOJ Firearms Division's own
    agents, with their advanced training on the subject, couldn't tell. So,
    then how is the average gun owner supposed to know? The confusion inherent
    in the statute lead the District Attorneys in Fresno and Mendocino counties
    to file an unprecedented prosecutor vs. prosecutor lawsuit against the
    Attorney General over the vagueness of the law when it first passed. Hunt
    v. Lockyer (Fresno Superior Court #01 CE CG 03182) is still being litigated,
    and challenges the 1999 amendment to the state's "assault weapon" law that
    bans firearms based on their cosmetic features. The lawsuit points out that
    the law does not provide gun owners, dealers, police, or prosecutors with
    sufficient guidance to determine what features on a firearm are prohibited
    so they cannot enforce the law fairly and unilaterally or determine how to
    comply with it. A letter from District Attorney Hunt explaining the lawsuit
    is available at the CRPA's website.

    In seizing the M96 rifles, the DOJ Firearms Division agents mistakenly
    believed that the model M96 was illegal because of one statutory definition
    of an "assault weapon" includes any semi-automatic centerfire rifle with the
    capacity to accept a detachable magazine and a conspicuously protruding
    pistol grip. Although the M96 does not have a pistol grip, the agents
    wrongfully believed that the "capacity to accept" provision applies to both
    the detachable magazine and the pistol grip. The agents believed the M96
    was an "assault weapon" because it has the "capacity to accept" a pistol
    grip - as many guns do.

    "We have been aware of the confusion since this law was passed in 1999,"
    said CRPA spokesman Chuck Michel. "The practical effect of that confusion
    is that the law has created a whole class of accidental felons in
    California."

    CRPA attempted to clear up the pistol grip issue last year when its
    attorneys wrote DOJ for clarification. Luckily, DOJ's written responses
    were available to prove the DOJ's Agents were wrong. Using those previous
    DOJ responses, attorneys from both the CRPA and Robinson Armament were on
    the phone with DOJ immediately after the raids started.

    "We had to e-mail the DOJ copies of their own documents that detail
    specifically why the M96 is not an 'assault weapon'" said Robinson Armament
    attorney Jason Davis. "These kind of 'mistakes' by DOJ terrorize law
    abiding customers and damage my client financially."

    Approximately one week after seizing the model M96 rifles, DOJ's Agents
    began returning the model M96 rifles to their owners.
     
  2. Tropical Z

    Tropical Z Member

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    The path less chosen...
    Seizing in the dead of night!
    BASTARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I hope they ROT in HELL!:cuss:
    They are representatives of the :evil:
     
  3. redhead

    redhead Member

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    "Believing this rifle to be an illegal "assault weapon", DOJ Firearms Division agents used the store's transaction records to locate each purchaser of the M96 rifle, then went door to door, often in the dead of night, confiscating the firearms under threat of criminal prosecution."

    Nice. Door to door. In the dead of night. Threat of prosecution. Intimidation? Sounds like it to me...
     
  4. Gary H

    Gary H Member

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    A Republican sits in the excutive's chair. What is a Republican? Has George Bush and Arnold Whatshisname redefined Republican? If so, we now have a donkey and a reprogrammed elephant that thinks he is a donkey.
     
  5. Drjones

    Drjones member

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    Break into my house in the dead of the night and you'll likely leave in a body bag.
     
  6. Balog

    Balog Member

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    Why would anyone object to NICS? It's not like we live in a police state or anything :barf:
     
  7. TCD

    TCD Member

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    Drjones, and so would you.... armed resistance agaisnt the police usually ends badly for everybody
     
  8. Balog

    Balog Member

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    TCD: armed oppression of the citizens doesn't turn out too well either. Unless you disarm them first, anyway.
     
  9. 7.62FullMetalJacket

    7.62FullMetalJacket Member

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    Lordy. DOJ in midnight raids looking for "illegal" "assault" rifles. No one bother to check definitions before rendering asunder the 4A?

    What is this crap about "capacity to accept"....??????

    SO if a pistol grip is made for a rifle, or a detachable high cap mag has ever been made, then the non-assault rifle becomes an assault rifle, even though the parts are not in the same space in time? Where is the Twighlight Zone when you need it?


    Brothers, we are in deep doo-doo. :mad:

    As far as B&E goes, the DOJ JBTs had better understand that they will be repelled as "illegal entrants." They can make up terms and justifications, then so can anyone, including Drjones.
     
  10. Thumper

    Thumper Member

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    TCD makes a good point. Hey, could someone get Patrick Henry on the horn and tell him that that "Liberty or Death" crap is just so, like, dated...?
     
  11. Drjones

    Drjones member

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    Please do not take my comments as being anti-LEO.

    Its just that with home invasions on the rise and the perps impersonating officers on an almost regular basis, it is a tough decision to make.

    Submit and hope they are who they say, or start shooting and hope for the best.

    Its a decision I definitely hope I am NEVER faced with. :uhoh:
     
  12. answerguy

    answerguy Member

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    I read the headline...

    ...to this thread and assume it was going to be a joke.

    I was wrong.
     
  13. Balog

    Balog Member

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    Just make sure you don't take more than 20 seconds to get to the door. :rolleyes: Unless it's a no-knock :uhoh:
     
  14. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    Firearms registration is firearms confiscation.
     
  15. Bruce H

    Bruce H Member

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    California has a budget crisis. I think I have found a place to cut expences. The need to reduce expenditures by state government is paramount. Removal of this division of the California DOJ would definitely save money and protect the rights of citizens.
     
  16. goalie

    goalie Member

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    I will humbly await my apology from the posters in the "was this a good shoot" thread who questioned my character and intelligence for having the gall to state that WHY the police are there in the first place is relevant to whether or not a "shoot" is good or not. I especially like the "dead of night" part of the whole situation. Instead of just calling people up and informing them that a weapon they bought LEGALLY from a dealer may not be legal to possess, they go with warrants in the dead of night. Yeah, that's gonna instill trust and respect in LE officials. :rolleyes:
     
  17. yayarx7

    yayarx7 Member

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    HA!

    double HA!

    Triple freaking HA!
     
  18. natedog

    natedog Member

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    I am just saddened by how much time and tax payer money our government spends in regulating a weapon (or features of a weapon) that don't increase it's lethality, and all of these resources don't help society one bit. Anyone notice anything different in the amount of crime and the number of "assault weapons" that are "flooding our streets" between 1993 and say, 1996? Of course, I am preaching to the choir here.
     
  19. 7.62FullMetalJacket

    7.62FullMetalJacket Member

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    It was necessary to "raid" these locations in the dead of night because the occupants had unknowingly allowed and evil black SA rifle into their home. The rifle could have hurt somebody if left to its own devices. This was for the citizen's safety and for the children. :rolleyes: :uhoh: :barf:
     
  20. jsalcedo

    jsalcedo Member

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    Absoulute power corrupts absolutely.

    What is the point of being a JBT, listening to WWII German marching
    songs in the car all day if you can't put your boot on someones throat at night?
     
  21. Jeff Thomas

    Jeff Thomas Member

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    [Sarcasm] And using purchase records to track owners down and confiscate their firearms?!?! I am shocked. Absolutely shocked.

    These unfortunate incidents only encourage the obvious paranoia of gun owners in America regarding reasonable registration of firearms.

    [/Sarcasm]

    :rolleyes:

    Regards from TX
     
  22. TheOtherOne

    TheOtherOne Member

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    Ahhh... The system works! Thank God for 4473's!

    How many babies had been slaughtered with these rifles before they were confiscated?
     
  23. lapidator

    lapidator Member

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    All the more reason not to provoke me... :scrutiny:

    Lapidator
     
  24. Spark

    Spark Member

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    LINK TO ARTICLE PLEASE - one of the things that the anti's always state is that Registration does not lead to Confiscation. Showing them that it's happening right now helps dispell that notion.
     
  25. HankB

    HankB Member

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    Actually, the story didn't say they actually had warrants.
     
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