California Law Changes July 1 - Affects FFL Xfers

[Bubbles]

Anyone else get this yet from CA DoJ, Director GB Anderson?

Beginning July 1, 2008 California Penal Code prohibits all FFL's from shipping firearms to an FFL in California, unless prior to delivery, the FFL delivering obtains a verification approval number from the CA DOJ.

I can see why more and more FFL's outside the state are refusing to ship firearms there as CA DoJ has to approve every transfer in advance. Thanks, guys. I can see why more and more FFL's are refusing to do business with CA.

 

[Maelstrom]

Question. Can a law like this in California actually apply to a sender in, say, Colorado?

I don't think California can outlaw actions in another state.

 

[ServiceSoon]

If you are shipping a firearm from Colorado to California then IMO the law would apply.

 

[bobbarker]

They can't stop the FFL outside the state from shipping it, but they CAN penalize a california FFL For accepting it without the approval of CA DOJ. This is absolutely crazy.

 

[BullsEye10x]

That is completely insane!

 

[azredhawk44]

Enforced by California Penal Code 12072(f)(1)... which goes after the receiving dealer and not the sending dealer.

Only applies to CA FFL's.

 

[Big Boomer]

And just "what" is needed for approval?

I agree! We should keep guns out of the wrong hands...so whose are the wrong hands? WHAT? MINE? Well that's not what I meant

So legally I can get a gun but you won't let me have it?

So that's it, I'm done no chance? :banghead:

I feel sick... I'm going to move out of this god forsaken state. Maybe the earthquake will come and break the dying piece of America off into the ocean...

Pardon me while I barf...

 

[Librarian]

Here's the CA-DOJ webpage on the program, the California Firearms Licensee Check System

About CFLC

As of July 1, 2008, California Penal Code Section 12072(f)(1) PDF logo [PDF 30 kb / 1 pg] prohibits all Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs), other than Type 03 or 06 FFLs, from shipping firearms to an FFL in California unless, prior to delivery, the FFL intending to deliver, sell or transfer the firearms obtains a verification approval number from the California Department of Justice (CADOJ) Bureau of Firearms. This includes transfers that occur at gun shows.

The verification approval number, which the Bureau of Firearms provides in a Firearms Shipment Approval letter, confirms that the intended recipient of the firearm shipment is properly licensed and listed in the state's database of persons/entities authorized to receive firearm shipments. If the intended CA FFL recipient is not listed in the state's database, the transaction will result in a Do Not Ship letter, and it is a crime for the intended recipient to receive the firearms (Penal Code Section 12083(c)(1)).

As a courtesy to impacted FFLs, the Bureau of Firearms has established an Internet application that is available to FFLs nationwide 24 hours a day 7 days a week (24/7) to obtain Firearms Shipment Approval letters. All Internet transactions will be handled on a secure server, and the information provided will be used solely for the purposes associated with the administration of the CFLC program. For FFLs that do not have Internet access, the Bureau has established a telephone service that allows nationwide FFL shippers to enroll and obtain Firearms Shipment Approval letters via telephone or facsimile prior to shipping firearms to a California FFL. However, the telephone service availability will be limited to Monday through Friday 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Pacific Standard Time.

 

[waterhouse]

I got the letter in my mailbox today.

I have no idea what they hope to gain from this, but I'm guessing even fewer FFLs are going to be willing to ship to CA.

Wait, I think I just answered my questions about what they hope to gain.

 

[Eightball]

It's another backdoor way of saying "you can't recieve this without authorization, and we aren't going to authorize this", kinda like DC. Backdoor gun banning for the law-abiding citizens.

Something tells me that if they manage to erect walls around the borders, inspect EVERYTHING, and put cameras in every law-abiding citizen's home, that their criminals will STILL get guns, and the violent crime rate will STILL skyrocket.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Anything to make it more difficult and expensive for commoners to acquire firearms.

 

[Librarian]

It's another backdoor way of saying "you can't recieve this without authorization, and we aren't going to authorize this", kinda like DC. Backdoor gun banning for the law-abiding citizens.

I think that's what the bill's authors had hoped, but not what became law. Other than the number of firearms to transfer, no weapon data is called for. The authorization letter is supposed to be (we'll see once it starts to happen) automatic if the CA FFL is in the database.

The effect, however, is to limit the number of out of state FFLs who will figure CA is worth the pain.

 

[mekender]

Question. Can a law like this in California actually apply to a sender in, say, Colorado?

I don't think California can outlaw actions in another state.

the better question is what happens when the CO county sheriff shows up with an arrest and extradition warrant signed by a judge in CA? sure it might be legal in CO, but are you willing to go to CA to fight it?... most wont be, so this effectively means that gun sales to CA residents are done with...

and you CA residents keep electing people that do these things...

 

[Librarian]

the better question is what happens when the CO county sheriff shows up with an arrest and extradition warrant signed by a judge in CA? sure it might be legal in CO, but are you willing to go to CA to fight it?... most wont be, so this effectively means that gun sales to CA residents are done with...

The misdemeanor applies to CA FFLs who receive the shipment from someone not 'registered' in their fine database -- it isn't illegal to ship FFL-to-FFL.

PC 12083 (c) (1) Any person licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing
with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code as a dealer,
pawnbroker, importer, or manufacturer of firearms whose licensed
premises are within this state shall not import or receive firearms
from any source unless listed on the centralized list of firearms
dealers pursuant to Section 12071, or the centralized list of
exempted federal firearms licensees pursuant to subdivision (a), or
the centralized list of firearms manufacturers pursuant to
subdivision (f) of Section 12086.
(2) A violation of this subdivision is a misdemeanor.

It looks like CA FFLs know the shipper is on either of the lists when a letter is enclosed with the shipments, since the shipping FFL can't get the letters unless s/he registers with CA.

 

[kiko1]

The People's Republic of California. Truly a case of the inmates running the asylum.

I love parts of that state, but won't move back with the loonies.

 

[xtra870]

i dont even know what to say about this law except to cuss like crazy and order an AR lower right now. Or wait till out of college and start a farming business or gun store in Idaho

 

[Prince Yamato]

i dont even know what to say about this law except to cuss like crazy and order an AR lower right now.

This is what they hope to do... they're going after the last off-list lowers that come from out of state...

 

[71Commander]

Librarian

About CFLC

As of July 1, 2008, California Penal Code Section 12072(f)(1) PDF logo [PDF 30 kb / 1 pg] prohibits all Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs), other than Type 03 or 06 FFLs, from shipping firearms to an FFL in California unless, prior to delivery, the FFL intending to deliver, sell or transfer the firearms obtains a verification approval number from the California Department of Justice (CADOJ) Bureau of Firearms. This includes transfers that occur at gun shows.

The verification approval number, which the Bureau of Firearms provides in a Firearms Shipment Approval letter, confirms that the intended recipient of the firearm shipment is properly licensed and listed in the state's database of persons/entities authorized to receive firearm shipments. If the intended CA FFL recipient is not listed in the state's database, the transaction will result in a Do Not Ship letter, and it is a crime for the intended recipient to receive the firearms (Penal Code Section 12083(c)(1)).

As a courtesy to impacted FFLs, the Bureau of Firearms has established an Internet application that is available to FFLs nationwide 24 hours a day 7 days a week (24/7) to obtain Firearms Shipment Approval letters. All Internet transactions will be handled on a secure server, and the information provided will be used solely for the purposes associated with the administration of the CFLC program. For FFLs that do not have Internet access, the Bureau has established a telephone service that allows nationwide FFL shippers to enroll and obtain Firearms Shipment Approval letters via telephone or facsimile prior to shipping firearms to a California FFL. However, the telephone service availability will be limited to Monday through Friday 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Pacific Standard Time. __________________

This is funny stuff. Ooops. We had a hacker steal all your FFL and personal data.

 

[leadcounsel]

Let's see CA's failed firearm ban attempts crash and burn... all pro gun folks should just move out and let the crazies have the place!

 

[TAB]

Leadcounsel, you do realize that CA is the most populous, has the most electoral college votes, the most seats in congress and I would be willing to bet more gun owners then some states have in population.

 

[Bubbles]

Ooops. We had a hacker steal all your FFL and personal data.

Actually most FFL's are held by corporations, and the contact info and responsible authories for them is public information.

Also, FFL status can be verified through ATF's FFL EZ Check, so IMO the state of CA just wasted a bunch of taxpayer $$$ implementing their own system.

Sadly, a lot of FFL's are reading the letter and going "**** Kali! I'm not selling anything there." which is exactly what the anti's want. After talking it over with my husband, we've agreed to sell or transfer firearms to members of the public in CA, but not to sell anything to CA law-enforcement or state agencies.

 

[macp]

Note to self: hurry up and get C&R.

 

[romma]

Death by a thousand cuts!

 

[Draven32]

Now that it is going into force, of course, the Fed can say something about CA trying to regulate interstate commerce.

 

[wolf13]

Now that it is going into force, of course, the Fed can say something about CA trying to regulate interstate commerce.

Thats what I was thinking. It seems like it is going to restrict it, but someone has to be willing to fight it.