California Senate approves bill to 'microstamp' pistol cartridges

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This law has only one intent; To deprive law abiding citizens from owning semi-auto pistols. It will do absolutely nothing to stop criminals from owning them.
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Precisely. We can all complain and yell that microstamping technology is ridiculous and would never stop any criminals. Fact of the matter is, I bet the legislators who voted for this bill realize this. This is just another (major) step in banning private gun ownership.
 
As somebody already mentioned, the only place this technology belongs is in the pages of 2000 AD's Judge Dredd. (If they allowed the fancy ammo that the Lawgiver uses, then it wouldn't be so bad.)

No offence to any Cali LEOS here, but I think if the law-abiding have to suffer this law, the law enforcers should too. (Mind you, I think that should be the case for all of the laws, so don't take it personally.)

I only hope you can convince the gun owners to refuse to sell to the California government, as that might give them at least a pause for thought (although if what I've heard here in the past year or so is normal, they'll need a damn sight longer than just a pause).
 
I believe that many of us are missing the more sinister chess move behind this. Many have noted that this creates a defacto ban on any new handguns being added to the CA-approved list for sale.

The chances of handgun manfacturers incorporating imaginary technology into a line of new handguns just to meet California's requirements is zero. The politicians trying to pass this KNOW FULL WELL the technology won't work. It will be IMPOSSIBLE for any new handguns to make it to the list. This is by design. It effectively seals off any new handguns from being approved for sale. Now what to do about the hundres of handguns already on the list and supposedly 'protected'?

It was noted before that currently approved handguns will drop off the list unless the extortion fee is paid by the manufacturer. So naturally, the next step in banning at least all semiauto handguns in CA is to hike up the fee for manufacturers to keep handguns on the "CA-approved for sale" list to the point that it would be impossible for the manufacturers to make a profit selling in California (the cost of the fee would have to be passed on to consumers, who would probably balk at paying $1,000 or so for a Glock).

New handgun models could not be added to the list... existing handgun models would be forced off the list... end result? Complete handgun ban in California :(

I'm really hoping that Arnold will veto the bill. He came through for us before vetoing every other anti-gun bill besides the .50bmg ban (I now believe that the .50bmg ban was throwing a bone to the Democrat-dominated legislature... note that the legislature is not openly hostile towards Schwartzenegger:cool:)

I have written to my Governor. If you're a Californian gun owner or even somebody who is opposed to underhanded restriction through legislation promoted under false pretenses, you owe it to yourself to contact the Governor as well.
 
Flawed Plan

They made a SA law for a gun that throws brass every where. I pick up extra brass at the range! It could be planted, reloaded, shared, sold, thrown down at crimes. More identity theft that is all we need. Whole new black market. Guess I'll get a shell catcher. That scares Us in Texas to see this abuse of the 2 nd. Commie testing grounds.
 
The bottom line is that this bill which is supposed to prevent crime or make it easier to catch criminals will do no such thing. You still have to prove motive and opportunity, and have a witness to the criminals presence at the crime scene in order to get a conviction. Many of the violent crimes that have plagued the cities of Ca, have plenty of witnesses but none willing to come forward and testify. Without a witness, the fact that a casing was found, if it can be traced to the actual killer (not stollen or resold many times), they would still have to find it in the killer's possession, and match the bullet actually in the victim to the gun.

Its really just another cut in the gun banners death of a thousand cuts for legal civilian ownership of firearms.
 
Microstamping

"It's really just another cut in the gun banners death of a thousand cuts for legal civilian ownership of firearms."


Masterblaster has hit the nail on the head !!!
 
I believe that many of us are missing the more sinister chess move behind this. Many have noted that this creates a defacto ban on any new handguns being added to the CA-approved list for sale.
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California is notorious for removing things they don't like simply by making the cost of doing business there prohibitive. This is no different. And when someone points out that it is impossible to get a new handgun in California, they can smugly say, "Well, we just wanted to reduce crime, but it seems the gun makers weren't interested in that. A shame, really."
 
And criminals say they get 90% of their firearms from theft. If there are no semis to steal they will steal revolvers.

if a crminals wants firearms ,just have some mexicans bring them up!
 
How can we pressure gun manufactures to follow Ronnie Barrett's lead? If suddenly California cops could not get guns/service,etc they might reconsider such discriminatory laws...
 
How can we pressure gun manufactures to follow Ronnie Barrett's lead? If suddenly California cops could not get guns/service,etc they might reconsider such discriminatory laws...
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It sounds like a good idea, but chances are there is a gun mfger that doesn't care about RKBA and is more interested in selling guns and making money. All it takes is one mfger to not see the big picutre. And of course if every mfger refused to sell firearms to cali I'm sure the cali congressmen would just increase taxes and start a state ran mfger. This method sounds like a good idea but I think it is a weak plan.
 
While I think it's VITAL that we all keep up on fighting such assinine, worthless, laws such as this one involving microstamping, I don't feel that the rest of the country is quite as threatened by new laws in California as it used to be. Where California used to be considered "cutting edge," it's now just as often considered "wacko fringe."
Marty
 
"Less ammo sold in California means more supply for the rest of the country, which means lower prices for us.

You just gotta look at the bright side of California being all fouled up."

Not really. California is a huge market. It's the 7th largest economy in the world. Even if a company did stop doing business in Cal., they would have to raise their prices significantly to cover the loss.
 
They wouldn't have to raise prices because they would be working less and making less ammo.

If California passes this law, prices everywhere will go up to cover the cost of doing business in California. If this passes, ammo companies need to charge Californians more the rest of us, since it costs more to make microstamped cartridges.
 
Sorry, my mistake about the microstamping thing... I was thinking they were serial numbering ammo. Aren't they really talking about microstamping the primer with the firing pin, as opposed to the cartridge itself?

But I didnt think magsnubby's post made sense... maybe its too late to be reading.
 
Sorry, my mistake about the microstamping thing... I was thinking they were serial numbering ammo. Aren't they really talking about microstamping the primer with the firing pin, as opposed to the cartridge itself?
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Both.

It was an earlier legislative session/year in which they proposed ammunition serialization.
 
Demonstrably false. Most gun crimes are committed with a .38 revolver.
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Don't think so. Check the dates in your source. Most of that data is for 1985 to early 90's. I betcha most gun crimes *currently* are not committed with a .38 revolver.

K
 
Don't think so. Check the dates in your source. Most of that data is for 1985 to early 90's. I betcha most gun crimes *currently* are not committed with a .38 revolver.

K
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http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,320383,00.html magazine, that staunch supporter of 2nd Amendment rights, published 2000 BATF data
1. Smith and Wesson .38 revolver
2. Ruger 9 mm semiautomatic
3. Lorcin Engineering .380 semiautomatic
4. Raven Arms .25 semiautomatic
5. Mossberg 12 gauge shotgun
6. Smith and Wesson 9mm semiautomatic
7. Smith and Wesson .357 revolver
8. Bryco Arms 9mm semiautomatic
9. Bryco Arms .380 semiautomatic
10. Davis Industries .380 semiautomatic

The list is derived from the center's investigations of 88,570 guns recovered from crime scenes in 46 cities in 2000, is being analyzed for ATF's youth gun crime interdiction initiative, which helps local police forces understand and counter gun trafficking to youth in their jurisdictions.
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Now, what is a 'crime scene' and what connection did the recovered guns have to the crime?

BATF on traces (Guns used in Crime, 1995):
Trace requests represent an unknown
portion of all the guns used in crimes. ATF is not able to trace guns manufac-
tured before 1968, most surplus military weapons, imported guns without
the importer's name, stolen guns, and guns missing a legible serial number.
Police agencies do not request traces on all firearms used in crimes. Not all
firearms used in crimes are recovered so that a trace could be done and, in
some States and localities, the police agencies may be able to establish
ownership locally without going to the ATF.
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So, the data on exclusively guns used to commit violent crimes isn't well represented.

I think a good way to bet is that most crime is committed using the handguns manufactured and sold in the last ten years, proportionally to the relative number of each type. Data for that is here.

For example, 1998:
Code: 
IANNUAL FIREARMS MANUFACTURING AND EXPORT REPORT 
I YEAR 1998 I 
[FONT="Courier New"]Pistols
TO .22       184,836 
TO .25        50,936 
TO .32        62,338 
TO .380       98,266 
TO9MM        284,374 
TO .50       279,615 

Revolvers
TO .22            68,108 
TO .32             2,602 
TO .39 SPEC       77,289 
TO .357 MAG       73,905 
TO .44 MAG        64,236 
TO .50            38,250 [/FONT]

(Is there such a thing as a ".39 Special"? That's exactly what is in the report file. Looks like a TYPO by the person compiling the report.)

The numbers, by the way, are one reason why microstamping has no hope of ever being important/significant/marginally useful in identifying the owners of guns used in crime.
 
Getting closer, but still not current. Not that it's a big deal, but stats like this are always subject to methodological error or faulty assumptions. What about gun crimes in which the guns are not recovered? If someone presents a gun, to threaten or commit an armed robbery, the gun is not necessarily recovered or identifiable. Still, you could be right.

K
 
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