Cosmoline
Member
Is it for a M-39 or 91-30? The M-39 mounts I've had from him have been very strong, but some of the Finnish 91/30's seem to use a different bracket than the soviets.
can anyone actually hit squat with their Mosins?
- Thread starter silverlance
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Is it for a M-39 or 91-30? The M-39 mounts I've had from him have been very strong, but some of the Finnish 91/30's seem to use a different bracket than the soviets.
I dunno.
I've got a few milsurps that would probably put a new Remington or Savage to shame on range day. (not a PSS, FP-10, VSS, or Sendero, mind you)
1. Swiss M1911 Schmidt-Rubin (the older one with 30" barrel)
2. A couple of plain-vanilla M96 Swedish Mausers
3. A 1941-vintage Swedish AG-42B Ljungman
4. A 1917 Enfield Lock NoIMkIII* SMLE
5. A sporterized 1917 Amberg Gew98 with crappy bore
6. I shouldn't even mention my Remington 1903A4 2-groove sniper
7. An October 1918 Springfield 1903
All of which are tight groupers, and all, save for the sporter Gew98, have won me trophies at "run what you brung", or 500 meter battle rifle silhouette matches. Point is, there are jewels and there are dogs out there in milsurp land. Knowing what to look for in the gun's condition, and also what to feed them is probably the biggest battle in the accuracy equation. I do have the luxury of feeding all of the above my carefully-crafted handloads, but those handloads are also matched to each individual rifle's particular quirks. (Save for the Swedish Mausers, they're amazing in that they seem to shoot anything they're fed particularly well, regardless of bullet weight or style)
Regardless, I'll be more than happy to put my money where my mouth is and bring a milsurp to the game that shoots where it's aimed. I haven't been bitten by the Mosin-Nagant bug yet, but when I do, I'll be just as vigilant in making it shoot, otherwise it'll get dumped like a bad habit and I'll start over. (I did that dance with a counterbored MAS-36 not too long ago)
I've got a few milsurps that would probably put a new Remington or Savage to shame on range day. (not a PSS, FP-10, VSS, or Sendero, mind you)
1. Swiss M1911 Schmidt-Rubin (the older one with 30" barrel)
2. A couple of plain-vanilla M96 Swedish Mausers
3. A 1941-vintage Swedish AG-42B Ljungman
4. A 1917 Enfield Lock NoIMkIII* SMLE
5. A sporterized 1917 Amberg Gew98 with crappy bore
6. I shouldn't even mention my Remington 1903A4 2-groove sniper
7. An October 1918 Springfield 1903
All of which are tight groupers, and all, save for the sporter Gew98, have won me trophies at "run what you brung", or 500 meter battle rifle silhouette matches. Point is, there are jewels and there are dogs out there in milsurp land. Knowing what to look for in the gun's condition, and also what to feed them is probably the biggest battle in the accuracy equation. I do have the luxury of feeding all of the above my carefully-crafted handloads, but those handloads are also matched to each individual rifle's particular quirks. (Save for the Swedish Mausers, they're amazing in that they seem to shoot anything they're fed particularly well, regardless of bullet weight or style)
Regardless, I'll be more than happy to put my money where my mouth is and bring a milsurp to the game that shoots where it's aimed. I haven't been bitten by the Mosin-Nagant bug yet, but when I do, I'll be just as vigilant in making it shoot, otherwise it'll get dumped like a bad habit and I'll start over. (I did that dance with a counterbored MAS-36 not too long ago)
fedaykincmndr
Member
I don't claim to be an expert and I never will but I'll tell you my experiences. My MN 91/30 (Russian mind you and very rough looking) shoots awesome groups. I've only shot at 25 yds thusfar, but with an NCStar scope and a POS mount (loose A LOT) I keyholed all 5 rounds fired. At 100 yds I don't know but I'll bet my bottom dollar it'll be MOA or slightly over. My friend has an M44 Russian and can hit 2 liter bottles at 100 yds with iron sights. I think that there are a lot of Netxperts here. Period. Tell me all day long that a MN is crap and I'll prove you wrong and show you many others who'll agree. And you may say well that's not 100 yds. Well woopty doo. I've shot a POS M16A2 at 500m and scored expert and high SS my entire military career. With the advantage of optics I'm pretty sure I could hit just about anything. That's me.
Bottom line, I think there are a lot of shooters who if they don't hit "MOA" with a rifle that they buy they instantly blame the rifle. BULL HOCKEY! Look at yourself and then the rifle. :banghead:
Forgive me if I've offended anyone. I'm sick of seeing a good rifle's name defamed by someone who probably hasn't had the proper training or flies a couple rounds and thinks that the "rifle did it." There are bad ones out there I'm not saying there aren't, but more often then not they're VERY good. Accurate, reliable, simple, and tough. You wanna spend @$$loads of money on a rifle, fine. But I do know this, in the proper hands an MN'll take you or the game of your choice down just as quick and hard as any overpriced, modern you-name-it rifle.
Again sorry if I stepped on anyone's toes.
Bottom line, I think there are a lot of shooters who if they don't hit "MOA" with a rifle that they buy they instantly blame the rifle. BULL HOCKEY! Look at yourself and then the rifle. :banghead:
Forgive me if I've offended anyone. I'm sick of seeing a good rifle's name defamed by someone who probably hasn't had the proper training or flies a couple rounds and thinks that the "rifle did it." There are bad ones out there I'm not saying there aren't, but more often then not they're VERY good. Accurate, reliable, simple, and tough. You wanna spend @$$loads of money on a rifle, fine. But I do know this, in the proper hands an MN'll take you or the game of your choice down just as quick and hard as any overpriced, modern you-name-it rifle.
Again sorry if I stepped on anyone's toes.
Gewehr98 I notice the absense of any Russian Mosins on that list. .45Guy, again, not a Mosin.
I realize there are a lot of very good milsurp rifles out there. I don't count the Mosin as one of them.
fedaykincmndr: I see a couple problems with your post. First of all, you buddy can hit two liter soda bottles at 100 yards. I have no doubt he can. IF he could do it every single time that would be about three MOA. Not bad for an old rifle, but I bet he CANT hit them every time. Second of course is that you are basing your opinion of your rifle's accuracy on 25 yard groups. It may be the most accurate rifle in the world: when you actually shoot it at rifle ranges, let me know. FWIW, the M16A2 is a very accurate rifle right out of the box. It would be a rifle that you would use to shoot the caps off two liter soda bottles at 100 yards. That is why that is the rifle used by every serious service rifle shooter in the country including the Marine Corp. teams.
Again, I posted the information about four different milsurp rifle matches. Anybody that wants to defend the honor of their Mosin is free to come an prove me wrong. If you can't make it this month, they have them every month.
I realize there are a lot of very good milsurp rifles out there. I don't count the Mosin as one of them.
fedaykincmndr: I see a couple problems with your post. First of all, you buddy can hit two liter soda bottles at 100 yards. I have no doubt he can. IF he could do it every single time that would be about three MOA. Not bad for an old rifle, but I bet he CANT hit them every time. Second of course is that you are basing your opinion of your rifle's accuracy on 25 yard groups. It may be the most accurate rifle in the world: when you actually shoot it at rifle ranges, let me know. FWIW, the M16A2 is a very accurate rifle right out of the box. It would be a rifle that you would use to shoot the caps off two liter soda bottles at 100 yards. That is why that is the rifle used by every serious service rifle shooter in the country including the Marine Corp. teams.
Again, I posted the information about four different milsurp rifle matches. Anybody that wants to defend the honor of their Mosin is free to come an prove me wrong. If you can't make it this month, they have them every month.
444
FWIW, the M16A2 is a very accurate rifle right out of the box. It would be a rifle that you would use to shoot the caps off two liter soda bottles at 100 yards. That is why that is the rifle used by every serious service rifle shooter in the country including the Marine Corp. teams.
20+ in the army,shot on the ft hood team..pistol and rifle
M16A2 shooting caps off the 2 litre soda bottles at 100 yards is a HUge pile of b.s.
get real
pete
some people can shoot some just shoot the crap.
FWIW, the M16A2 is a very accurate rifle right out of the box. It would be a rifle that you would use to shoot the caps off two liter soda bottles at 100 yards. That is why that is the rifle used by every serious service rifle shooter in the country including the Marine Corp. teams.
20+ in the army,shot on the ft hood team..pistol and rifle
M16A2 shooting caps off the 2 litre soda bottles at 100 yards is a HUge pile of b.s.
get real
pete
some people can shoot some just shoot the crap.
silverlance
Member
oh boy
let's not get testy.
I used to (sob* stolen..) own an ar15. Ill be first to admit that i couldn't shoot the caps off of soda bottles at 100. then again, I wasn't always able to hit the bottle itself, either. I was 18 and didn't have anyone to teach me how to zero in the rifle.
eh, i'm going to end this debate for myself. im buying a caldwell heavy vise and and going to pretty much elminate the shooter and go for groups. i also bought some wolf gold and will also pick up another commercial top shelf box of x54r.
i'll post results.
let's not get testy.
I used to (sob* stolen..) own an ar15. Ill be first to admit that i couldn't shoot the caps off of soda bottles at 100. then again, I wasn't always able to hit the bottle itself, either. I was 18 and didn't have anyone to teach me how to zero in the rifle.
eh, i'm going to end this debate for myself. im buying a caldwell heavy vise and and going to pretty much elminate the shooter and go for groups. i also bought some wolf gold and will also pick up another commercial top shelf box of x54r.
i'll post results.
fedaykincmndr
Member
You know that's funny...I seem to recall my friends being on the USMC Rifle Team and using M1 Garands at their matches... You sir, might want to get your facts straight.
As far as the bottle caps goes, I have to agree with AH-1, BULL. A match grade Armalite MAYBE, but the Colt walking sticks the Marine Corps has who've had multiple HUNDREDS of thousands of rounds put through them and beat to SH**; I sincerely doubt they'd hit a freakin' 2 liter bottle at 100 yds.
I don't want to get into a pissing contest because after all this is online. There is a manner of distrust on both sides. I do know, however, AH-1 having served this great Nation as an Army-Rat (all in good fun AH-1), could tell you that the M16 and all other TO weapons used by the infantry are zeroed at 25 or 26 yds as the trajectory (in a previous post) is the same as 200m.
Now, if you can't hit MOA, which we all know is 1" at 100yds, WITH OPTICS then you've no business shooting IMO. 100yds might as well be 25 as far as I'm concerned. ESPECIALLY from a daggon bench rest. :banghead:
As far as the bottle caps goes, I have to agree with AH-1, BULL. A match grade Armalite MAYBE, but the Colt walking sticks the Marine Corps has who've had multiple HUNDREDS of thousands of rounds put through them and beat to SH**; I sincerely doubt they'd hit a freakin' 2 liter bottle at 100 yds.
I don't want to get into a pissing contest because after all this is online. There is a manner of distrust on both sides. I do know, however, AH-1 having served this great Nation as an Army-Rat (all in good fun AH-1
), could tell you that the M16 and all other TO weapons used by the infantry are zeroed at 25 or 26 yds as the trajectory (in a previous post) is the same as 200m.Now, if you can't hit MOA, which we all know is 1" at 100yds, WITH OPTICS then you've no business shooting IMO. 100yds might as well be 25 as far as I'm concerned. ESPECIALLY from a daggon bench rest. :banghead:
My 91/30 shoots pretty decent groups but the sights are hard to see with my old eyes. I decided to make a sniper wanabe out of it. I bought a PU scope and mount on ebay last week and today I threaded the barrel and installed a Krinkov brake I bought from Brownell's on it. I'll see how it does when I'm finished, its kind of a fun project. If nothing else I'll be able to see the target and the sights. I won't feel too bad if I mess something up, I only have about $100 invested in the rifle. The muzzle brake was $19 with shipping. The scope was the expensive part $275 for it.
Yeah, it is a sin of omission, ain't it?
I plan to rectify that, I'm just gettin' ready to dip my big toe in the Noisy-Magnet waters again. I got a bit fearful of 'em some years ago when a fellow handed me one of those shorty M44 carbines, with a box of full-patch 7.62x54R ammo. My shoulder took some time to recover, as did the subsequent flinch.
I plan to rectify that, I'm just gettin' ready to dip my big toe in the Noisy-Magnet waters again. I got a bit fearful of 'em some years ago when a fellow handed me one of those shorty M44 carbines, with a box of full-patch 7.62x54R ammo. My shoulder took some time to recover, as did the subsequent flinch.
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R.W.Dale
Member
DUDE WRONG PICTURE
That's what you get for not rehosting using up someone elses bandwidth.
That's what you get for not rehosting using up someone elses bandwidth.
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cracked butt
Member
I'm not sure why everyone gets their undies in a bundle when someone claims that russian mosins aren't 'tackdrivers.' Most of them were made to be 'good enough' and not much better. I've always described them as a spear that also shoots bullets. Anyone can type amazing groups with their keyboard, but I've yet to see a russian mosin nagant do anything close to what people here claim in real life.
When someone shows me actual proof that they shoot 1" groups I'll believe it.
My local club holds a monthly milsurp match. The top scores are dominated by guys shooting 03A3s, swedes, and schmidt-Rubins. There is a reason for this- these rifles are very accurate and russian mosins simply are not close to being in the same class of quality as the other rifles.
http://www.dbcl.org/vintage_military_rifle_match.htm#results1
Anyone can type amazing groups with their keyboard, but I've yet to see a russian mosin nagant do anything close to what people here claim in real life. When someone shows me actual proof that they shoot 1" groups I'll believe it.
My local club holds a monthly milsurp match. The top scores are dominated by guys shooting 03A3s, swedes, and schmidt-Rubins. There is a reason for this- these rifles are very accurate and russian mosins simply are not close to being in the same class of quality as the other rifles.
http://www.dbcl.org/vintage_military_rifle_match.htm#results1
Balddragn
Member
Ya... they ain't tack drivers but I'd like to get better than than the 72 MOA :banghead: that I'm getting with my M38 and check silvertip.
cracked butt
Member
You're not too far away, couldn't be more than 15 miles or so. The milsurp match at Daniel Boone is open to the public. I can give you directions if you like.
Here's the homepage: http://www.dbcl.org/
R.W.Dale
Member
YOU but I take you noticed and rectified the problem
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Red Tornado
Member
Gewehr98,
You forgot the rules. You're required to post a picture of the 1903A4 at every opportunity. My keyboard is in need of drool.
RT
You forgot the rules. You're required to post a picture of the 1903A4 at every opportunity. My keyboard is in need of drool.
RT
armoredman
Member
Will be taking the new 1920 MN 91/30 to the range tomorrow, will try to take camera too.
Red Tornado, I would, but...
1. It wasn't a Mosin, or even a milsurp - I restored it from a Bubbafied receiver over the course of several years.
2. I don't know if I can stand another withering attack from Krochus if I don't properly webhost the image. Nor do I think Krochus' membership here would stand scrutiny from the mods after he broke Forum Rule #4 a second time.
1. It wasn't a Mosin, or even a milsurp - I restored it from a Bubbafied receiver over the course of several years.
2. I don't know if I can stand another withering attack from Krochus if I don't properly webhost the image. Nor do I think Krochus' membership here would stand scrutiny from the mods after he broke Forum Rule #4 a second time.
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