Can bolt-action rifles be made any cheaper?

[Ignition Override]

Possibly, but I'm usually skeptical when a cheaper product appears.

There are too many examples where lowered costs require less quality control with assembly, or lower quality steel.

This might not matter so much on bolt vs. semi-auto rifles, but so many semi-autos contracted by Century Arms come to mind.

IO ceased production of their AKMs due to low quality steel and "price point" assembly.

If these factors Don't very often reduce the quality of bolt-action rifles, then good. My only interest is quality and where possible, having the option of wood over plastic. Character.

 

[d2wing]

Sometimes when people are talking about how hard new cars are to maintain, we loose sight of the fact that new cars just don’t really require maintenance to begin with. My suburban has 175,000 miles and has only received oil changes, 1 wheel bearing, and a set of front brakes in that time. That’s amazing compared to the cars I grew up with. I’m certain most new cars today will go to the recycler with their original spark plugs and transmission fluid. It’s hard to even find a shop that can rebuild a engine or trans anymore.

Good point. I remember when making 100.000 miles without an overhaul was impressive. To say nothing of new plugs and points etc and tune-ups at least once a year. I currently own a Tahoe with 210

Sometimes when people are talking about how hard new cars are to maintain, we loose sight of the fact that new cars just don’t really require maintenance to begin with. My suburban has 175,000 miles and has only received oil changes, 1 wheel bearing, and a set of front brakes in that time. That’s amazing compared to the cars I grew up with. I’m certain most new cars today will go to the recycler with their original spark plugs and transmission fluid. It’s hard to even find a shop that can rebuild a engine or trans anymore.

You are so right. Yearly tune ups various break downs. Needing an overhaul before 100,000 miles. I was at a car show. I guy I know showed up with his original 68 Camaro he has when I had one back in 69 to 75 when I sold it. I dearly miss it but the 2001 Z28 that I parked next to him is better in every way.

 

[someguy2800]

View attachment 1095721
Good point. I remember when making 100.000 miles without an overhaul was impressive. To say nothing of new plugs and points etc and tune-ups at least once a year. I currently own a Tahoe with 210

You are so right. Yearly tune ups various break downs. Needing an overhaul before 100,000 miles. I was at a car show. I guy I know showed up with his original 68 Camaro he has when I had one back in 69 to 75 when I sold it. I dearly miss it but the 2001 Z28 that I parked next to him is better in every way.

I went to school for engine machining. I remember when I was in school I stopped in an engine shop to talk with the owner. He said in 1980 they did 230 stock engine rebuilds, and the rest of the business was performance work. He said the year before they only did 3 stock rebuilds and the rest was all performance work. This was in about 2007.

Now it’s getting hard to even find a machine shop at all because most people don’t even get performance work done, it easier and cheaper to just get a 5.3l from the junkyard and put a turbo on it.

 

[lysanderxiii]

It's no secret that manufacturers have been making bolt action rifles, for better or for worse, cheaper and cheaper for a century now. The Remington model 721 was made into the cheaper model 700, which lead to the model 710, then the model 770, for example. Corners were cut at every interval in the name of saving money.

While overall I think that as consumers we have gained more than we have lost with the offering of inexpensive models, I'm curious how much cheaper manufacturers can safely make these rifles. I was looking at my Ruger American recently and I really don't know how they can make it any cheaper. It has a cheap matte blued finish with no discernable polishing, the stock is as cheap as they likely could have made it, the whole rifle was made up of easy-to-machine cylinders, it has a molded trigger guard, and it uses detachable magazines. I love the rifle for what it is, but as much as Ruger may want to flaunt these attributes as beneficial I know that the rifle was made that way to cut costs.

I struggle to see how manufacturers will be able to make the next generation of rifles any cheaper.

Take an AR style barrel with locking lugs in an extension, mold in in a plastic receiver/stock like the Remington Nylon 66 had and you could make a really cheap bolt action rifle. Probably the cost of the barrel and bolt plus $20, maybe in the $75-$85 range.

But, who would want it?

 

[illinoisburt]

Take an AR style barrel with locking lugs in an extension, mold in in a plastic receiver/stock like the Remington Nylon 66 had and you could make a really cheap bolt action rifle. Probably the cost of the barrel and bolt plus $20, maybe in the $75-$85 range.

But, who would want it?

If it came with a boresighted 3-9x40 scope and held 3 or more rounds of 6.5 or 308 it might be ugly but would probably be sold out immediately at every major big box sporting good store in America for $99. I would not expect any LGS to touch it since there wouldn't be any room for markup when competitor ads splash it on their fall hunting circulars.

 

[DDDWho]

I don’t like cheap rifles. This one I bought a few years ago. A Ruger 77 Hawkeye in .280 Rem, mostly steel and a walnut stock. I picked this rascal up somewhere along life’s journey. It’s 100 year old Enfield with possibly another 100 left in it. I have a Marlin 336, all machined. My only plastic stocked rifle is an AR. I want to use the best equipment I can possibly afford even if I have to wait till I save the money for it

 

[Southmountain]

I think the “spirit” behind the OP's post is more about the quality of materials and manufacturing process (vs. labor costs and other macroeconomic / international trade and policy factors) - but correct me if I'm wrong.

To that end, I think the Remington 770 went beyond the limit for the American consumer: plastic parts in receiver; plastic rear tang; barrel pressed instead of threaded into receiver (chambering issues); plastic magazine with weak springs (exploding magazines); plastic bolt shroud which blows up and can blind you; plastic trigger housing (gun can fire in safety mode). Sales flopped and it was discontinued.

One "level" above the Remington 770 is what I think is the "lower limit" for bolt action quality: Savage Axis / Axis II, Ruger American, Remington 783, Mossberg Patriot. $400 MSRP range. All doing extremely well in the American market.

CNC machined parts, mass-produced interchangeable parts, plastic stocks, cylindrical receivers, etc. are all okay as they result in a functional and accurate firearm. Remington 770 took things a bit too far and became dysfunctional.

So, Remington 770 was the next step in the [de]-evolution of bolt action manufacturing, and it was rejected. Does this mean Savage Axis / Axis II, Ruger American, Remington 783, Mossberg Patriot is as low as things will go until a technological revolution?

Is there anything between Remington 770 and Savage Axis / Axis II / Ruger American / Remington 783 / Mossberg Patriot?

Is it possible to make a rifle with steel only in the barrel and parts of the bolt face, maybe parts of the receiver? I'm not sure.

 

[Bcwitt]

Yes, they can be made cheaper. No, you wouldnt want one that cheap.

 

[mshootnit]

How much would a poly stocked new production Mosin Nagant rifle cost if it were made with chinese steel Vietnamese labor and imported here by the millions.

 

[illinoisburt]

How much would a poly stocked new production Mosin Nagant rifle cost if it were made with chinese steel Vietnamese labor and imported here by the millions.

More than its likely worth. The way to bring down costs is to reduce or eliminate hand work. The older rifle designs require machining and fitting, all hand labor. Modern designs are based on cast metals and molded plastic parts. Any machine work should be limited to computer controlled lathes which can turn out large numbers of perfectly interchangeable parts with minimal handling. As #lysanderxiii noted designs like the AR barrel which can generally be counted on to have safe headspacing without extra fitting will be the likely winner. A molded 1-piece poly stock and receiver combo with basic trigger group pinned into place could probably be made for very low cost. The end result would likely be fairly accurate and light weight though like anything made in mass quantities for minimal cost probably not terribly refined.

 

[mshootnit]

yeah but what is a mosin made of, like 6 parts total? pretty darn crude

 

[Remington1911]

View attachment 1095721
Good point. I remember when making 100.000 miles without an overhaul was impressive. To say nothing of new plugs and points etc and tune-ups at least once a year. I currently own a Tahoe with 210

You are so right. Yearly tune ups various break downs. Needing an overhaul before 100,000 miles. I was at a car show. I guy I know showed up with his original 68 Camaro he has when I had one back in 69 to 75 when I sold it. I dearly miss it but the 2001 Z28 that I parked next to him is better in every way.

I hope my post is allowed to live, it relates trust me.


This shows how the modern machine is actually "better" over the old machine, this is motorcycles but the same can be said for gunz. Still a metal machine made using the same tech.

I would argue just like this, they are cheap, you can look back in time and see that a "good" hunting rifle was very expensive, today a "good" hunting rifle is pretty darn cheap. It may not be what you want, but it is inexpensive in todays world, and will out shoot that old rifle all day and twice on sunday.

I go back to my standard argument against Bubba, when mosins are $89 everywhere and ammo was cheap. Why put $300 into a mosin and have a gun that looks modern when you can go buy a savage Axis for $300 and will have a gun that will out shoot it.

They are cheaper, and they are better then they have ever been......but like the video I posted, is it the right thing to do.....in the gun world I think the answer is yes, in the video the answer is no. In cars like you are talking abuot the answer is also no for the same reasons you state, they are better in every way.....but one, looks and nostaliga.

 

[rdnktrkr]

I like the theory about putting an AR barrel on a molded lower but I don't think it would be any cheaper than the offerings that are out there currently (less than $200 on sale, pre pandemic), I have a few of the budget bolt actions and they all shoot good AND if I drop one or scratch one I'm not as upset as if it was my 700BDL or Weatherby.