Training is fun long as someone else paying for the ammo. You cannot train enough to be cool under fire. That you are born with. No amount of practice can prevent you from freezing and shaking. I would bet more on a guy cool under fire that hardly shoots then a guy that fired tens of thousands of rounds at targets and never been fired atEver since I was a child I was absolutely in love with weapons. Growing up I was fortunate enough to have parents that let me have guns and teach me how to shoot them safely. The passion never went away. In the early 2000s I started taking my first steps into becoming a responsible armed citizen. My first taste of structured firearms training came the way of Gunsite and Valhalla. I started to carry off duty and every time I had the chance I went to the range. My range time wasn’t as structured as it should have been, it was more fun based and spent blowing off the ammo I just bought.
Around 2007 the Army gave me the opportunity to be on a Special Reactions Team (SRT) and sent us to Blackwater and SRT School. I was instantly hit with the fact that the Army doesn’t always teach its Soldiers to shoot/fight with a gun, rather teaches us to qualify. I could not get enough of the knowledge these instructors were giving us. Not just in CQB but how to actually fight with a firearms. I took everything I learned with weapons manipulations and brought it back to the line to teach during PMI. My off duty range time started to change a little bit and become more focused.
After some overseas and deployment time the Army gave me the opportunity to become an instructor. Not only was I teaching young Soldiers the ins and outs of my job but I was also able to use all my firearms experience and run the marksmanship program. After about a year of nonstop work I was able to attend the Law Enforcement Firearms Instructor Course taught by the Army’s SRT instructors. It was an eye opening six straight days of nothing but shooting and instruction. Right off the bat we shot a qualification none of us had ever seen before with timed strings of fire all from the holster. The next few days were filled with drills, friendly competition, case studies, and more amazing instruction. By the end of the week I watched my times decrease, groups shrink tremendously and qualified expert. By far one of the best Army schools there is. This experience taught me I had to train more and train right.
While at LEFIT I met Jim Shanahan, who instructed and co-authored the course. Jim retired after 21 years in the Army, contracted, taught Hostage Rescue for the past 6, is a USPSA Grandmaster, and has owned Advance Performance Shooting since 98. After the course I started training with Jim at APS. APS’ training is more in depth and structured than anything I have encountered before but at the same time it’s much more laid back. I started to get the “Why” factor out of everything I was learning. I train weekly with Jim and when I can I take a one or two day course taught by APS. My EDC and my equipment started to change too. APS has its own holster/kydex line of product that was born from a vast knowledge and a lifetime of experience carrying firearms, both stateside and overseas.
APS’ latest adventure is in CCW training, which I help instruct. I currently hold permits in 3 different states and I have yet to see a CCW class this dedicated to actual firearms carry. While state mandated standards are ok, I’ve seen a lot of people with little or no actual firearms training attain a CCW. APS’ CCW course nails all the state standards and covers all the realities of concealed carry.
”If you’ve never stood in front of an Attack Target or had an attacker coming at you from 21’ away, you will never know the value of 1.5secs.”
The latest chapter in my training came the way of a Protective Services Course. I felt a little pressure to do well at this course, due to my past training and some of the instructors knew of me. We would be shooting dot drills, bill drills, 1-5drills(the fastest with all hits won a little award), transitions from rifle to pistol, and a required qualification. During the qual I told myself that my goal was to have all my rounds in the inner box of the Omaha Q target. I shot 40/40 only throwing a hand full out of center box while I was at the 25m meter line shooting DAO with the M9 Beretta. A few years ago I would have settled for a shotgun like group and 38/40.
I believe the point I’m trying to make is: get out and train! Spend a little money on the some quality instruction. Vet your instructors and their programs, the latest zip-bang muti syllable phase may not be what you need. Balance in your training is very crucial, we don’t like to practice the things we are not good at. Last but not least shoot some competition if you can. Competition is a great way to measure your training and depending on your club or type of match it can be training in its own way.
Shooter Ready?
http://advancedperformanceshooting.com/
Can you, do you train enough?
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Training is fun long as someone else paying for the ammo. You cannot train enough to be cool under fire. That you are born with. No amount of practice can prevent you from freezing and shaking. I would bet more on a guy cool under fire that hardly shoots then a guy that fired tens of thousands of rounds at targets and never been fired at
Infidel4life11
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Holy crap I like all of this.
APS high output defensive pistol course, we shot in, around, and through cars and windshields. We also shot an attack target that is on a track and comes at you from 21' away (to put that 21'/1.5sec rule to the test).
Dry Fire- I loves me some dry fire, I've (hypothetically) shot every light switch in my house. Ill hang a target down the hallway, dry fire a few times, side step out of the funnel reload and reassess.
APS high output defensive pistol course, we shot in, around, and through cars and windshields. We also shot an attack target that is on a track and comes at you from 21' away (to put that 21'/1.5sec rule to the test).
Dry Fire- I loves me some dry fire, I've (hypothetically) shot every light switch in my house. Ill hang a target down the hallway, dry fire a few times, side step out of the funnel reload and reassess.
RustyShackelford
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Post #40, the 3x3x3 Rule.....
I agree & disagree with post #40.
yes, most armed citizen(not cops/armed forces/licensed guards) will be in lethal force events using what I call the 3x3x3 Rule. 3 feet in about 3 seconds with about 3 rounds fired(total).
Now, you can prepare to deal with a lethal force event with a 5/6/7 shot snub or sub-compact but as noted, a few spare pistol magazines or speed strips isn't a bad idea.
I wouldn't think anyone would argue against carrying spare ammunition.
A recent LE article noted a SWAT trained police Sgt on regular patrol who had a massive firefight on-duty. He survived the event(the armed subject was killed). The Sgt later started to carry a Glock 34 9x19mm with several 33rd pistol magazines with a G19 9x19mm as a BUG.
His lethal force event lasted a documented 56 seconds. The violent subject also had a loaded AK rifle in his stolen vehicle(which wasn't used in the gun fight).
I agree & disagree with post #40.
yes, most armed citizen(not cops/armed forces/licensed guards) will be in lethal force events using what I call the 3x3x3 Rule. 3 feet in about 3 seconds with about 3 rounds fired(total).
Now, you can prepare to deal with a lethal force event with a 5/6/7 shot snub or sub-compact but as noted, a few spare pistol magazines or speed strips isn't a bad idea.
I wouldn't think anyone would argue against carrying spare ammunition.
A recent LE article noted a SWAT trained police Sgt on regular patrol who had a massive firefight on-duty. He survived the event(the armed subject was killed). The Sgt later started to carry a Glock 34 9x19mm with several 33rd pistol magazines with a G19 9x19mm as a BUG.
His lethal force event lasted a documented 56 seconds. The violent subject also had a loaded AK rifle in his stolen vehicle(which wasn't used in the gun fight).
browningguy
Member
See I just don't understand that. You're trying to apply large population numbers to an individual pistol, and for the most part it just doesn't work. Whether a particular brand will shoot 800 rounds in a day without failure is of absolutely no importance to me, or as far as I know any other person posting here. And even if "most" pistols of a particular brand will do it that has absolutely no bearing on whether "your" pistol will do it.
What is important is whether a particular pistol will fire 2, or 5, or 10 rounds where I need them when I need them. And it's really simple to test your own pistol to see if it will do that.
Infidel4life11
Member
I won't minimize the importance of reliability in something I need to trust my life on.
Will it take 2 shots the win the fight or 22? is blood, dirt/mud, or other parts of the environment going to have an effect on our weapon system during that struggle?
I beg and pray that we will never have to defend ourselves but plan for the worst.
watch the movie Fargo. pay attention to the car stop scene where the criminals shoot the trooper through the window. That is how it happens in the real world.
tell me what shooting training regimine would have had the trooper in that film prepared for that encounter?
tell me what shooting training regimine would have had the trooper in that film prepared for that encounter?
SnowBlaZeR2
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I buy more into tangible results, than statistical theory, personally.
We all need to analyze our own risks and perceived threats and train/practice accordingly. I find my time better used running, biking, or lifting weights than worrying about which firearms trainer I use or if I should carry a Glock vs an M&P vs an XD. I find it interesting that when a proposed ban is mainstream, we all talk about how the number of shootings is low, yet when it isn't threatening our hobbies, we talk about how we all need more training for the threat that's just around the corner.
A quick google search shows that in 2010, 11,000 people were murdered with firearm and there were a little over 16,000 homicides all together. Certainly there are other instances that justify lethal force, but that's the big one. In that same year, 597,000 people died from heart disease, 138,000 from respiratory disease, 129,000 from stroke, 70,000 from diabetes, 50,000 from flu and pneumonia, and 32,000 from liver disease. Having a good diet and exercise as well as limiting/eliminating smoking and drinking, and routine vaccination would have been just as likely to save the lives of those 1,000,000 plus people. Getting a flu shot each year and a pneumonia shot every 10 is likely to save 3 times more people than if everyone that was murdered had been armed and capable of defending themselves. What a time and cost efficient way to save lives. Continuous firearms tactics/training or 5 minutes with your doctor/pharmacist/health department.
We can all be realistic about the threats in our lives. I have no problem with anyone training/practicing to be capable of defending one's self or those around them. I'm all for it. The local gun store puts on a training class by a very well know tactical instructor (one who sells a lot of gear, does a lot of classes, and has a fairly entertaining youtube channel). The man knows his way around a firearm. But he's also morbidly obese and at greatly elevated risk for most of the main causes of death in the US. How can I take him seriously when it comes to risk assessment when he can't train against the largest risks shown to the population? I'll be glad to listen when it comes to firearm manipulation, but we clearly find our threats in this world to be different things, to such an extreme I can't justify paying him money for his ideas.
I find causes of death not benefited by being proficient with a firearm far more of a threat than those that would be benefited by being proficient with one. As such, I spend more of my free time reducing risk to the threats I find most concerning. I still get to the range, and I try to get once a week to do the common drills. In my justification, being that level of proficient will cover me from enough of the firearms dependent situations I could reasonably encounter. It won't prepare me for combat and it won't prepare me for the worst of the worst, but I'm far less worried about that than what my family history of diabetes, heart attack, stroke, cancer, and high blood pressure will mean if I don't spend the majority of my focus there.
Do what makes you comfortable but also don't put the blinders on and look at only the small picture. There are many threats out there in life and very few are solved with a gun. Being prepared with a gun is great, but not if it means ignoring the far more common causes of morbidity and mortality.
A quick google search shows that in 2010, 11,000 people were murdered with firearm and there were a little over 16,000 homicides all together. Certainly there are other instances that justify lethal force, but that's the big one. In that same year, 597,000 people died from heart disease, 138,000 from respiratory disease, 129,000 from stroke, 70,000 from diabetes, 50,000 from flu and pneumonia, and 32,000 from liver disease. Having a good diet and exercise as well as limiting/eliminating smoking and drinking, and routine vaccination would have been just as likely to save the lives of those 1,000,000 plus people. Getting a flu shot each year and a pneumonia shot every 10 is likely to save 3 times more people than if everyone that was murdered had been armed and capable of defending themselves. What a time and cost efficient way to save lives. Continuous firearms tactics/training or 5 minutes with your doctor/pharmacist/health department.
We can all be realistic about the threats in our lives. I have no problem with anyone training/practicing to be capable of defending one's self or those around them. I'm all for it. The local gun store puts on a training class by a very well know tactical instructor (one who sells a lot of gear, does a lot of classes, and has a fairly entertaining youtube channel). The man knows his way around a firearm. But he's also morbidly obese and at greatly elevated risk for most of the main causes of death in the US. How can I take him seriously when it comes to risk assessment when he can't train against the largest risks shown to the population? I'll be glad to listen when it comes to firearm manipulation, but we clearly find our threats in this world to be different things, to such an extreme I can't justify paying him money for his ideas.
I find causes of death not benefited by being proficient with a firearm far more of a threat than those that would be benefited by being proficient with one. As such, I spend more of my free time reducing risk to the threats I find most concerning. I still get to the range, and I try to get once a week to do the common drills. In my justification, being that level of proficient will cover me from enough of the firearms dependent situations I could reasonably encounter. It won't prepare me for combat and it won't prepare me for the worst of the worst, but I'm far less worried about that than what my family history of diabetes, heart attack, stroke, cancer, and high blood pressure will mean if I don't spend the majority of my focus there.
Do what makes you comfortable but also don't put the blinders on and look at only the small picture. There are many threats out there in life and very few are solved with a gun. Being prepared with a gun is great, but not if it means ignoring the far more common causes of morbidity and mortality.
Whatever floats your boat. I'll stick to the idea that you can train too much if it means your focus on the small picture blinds you of the large. Training is great but so is being realistic in the odds most face every day in all aspects of life.
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Two thoughts.
One, there are such things as diminishing returns. At some point, more may be a little better but not much better.
Second, one must reasonably and responsibly allocate the time and money needed for risk mitigation efforts.
Spending lot of money to go to Gunsite and staying to avail one's self of everything they have to offer might be fun (and very beneficial for professionals), but I'm sure most of us can find better ways to go about mitigating risks to health, safety, financial well-being, and so on.
I took one two day course this year, nearby. I took one several years ago. The one this year might well have sufficed. There are more things I could do (FoF training, for example) but I do not intend to do that.
It's a judgment call.
Following Up on Post #47....
...it is important to pursue the right kind of training. And if we are talking about training to develop skills to improve one's chances of surviving a sudden, violent criminal assault, a lot of what has been taught in the past is not what one wants.
Qualification is not training. Shooting at targets that one has been planning to shoot at is not training. Trying to shoot small groups at a target is not good training for defensive shooting. There are different training curricula available from different instructors here and there...but the question is, which to choose?
Chapters 28 and 29 of this book are very much worth reading. The first provides a very informative discussion of the whats and whys of the I.C.E. Combat Focus Training course already discussed. The second lists more resources, and explains how one who cannot avail himself or herself can obtain what is needed to work with another person to try the same basic drills.
I just finished the book. It is about many different facets of home protection, but the chapters mentioned are very pertinent to the is thread.
...it is important to pursue the right kind of training. And if we are talking about training to develop skills to improve one's chances of surviving a sudden, violent criminal assault, a lot of what has been taught in the past is not what one wants.
Qualification is not training. Shooting at targets that one has been planning to shoot at is not training. Trying to shoot small groups at a target is not good training for defensive shooting. There are different training curricula available from different instructors here and there...but the question is, which to choose?
Chapters 28 and 29 of this book are very much worth reading. The first provides a very informative discussion of the whats and whys of the I.C.E. Combat Focus Training course already discussed. The second lists more resources, and explains how one who cannot avail himself or herself can obtain what is needed to work with another person to try the same basic drills.
I just finished the book. It is about many different facets of home protection, but the chapters mentioned are very pertinent to the is thread.
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