Can you say, "overkill?"

[cbsbyte]

Trigger control.

One bullet would have done it. Or better none at all. Think about it. He was a black male who had killed a white deputy in the south. He was being hunted by mostly a white police force. It is more than overkill. It was intended to send a message to others not to mess with this Sheriff departmet. Did he deserve it depends on what truth you believe.

 

[Macpherson]

One bullet would have done it. Or better none at all. Think about it. He was a black male who had killed a white deputy in the south. He was being hunted by mostly a white police force. It is more than overkill. It was intended to send a message to others not to mess with this Sheriff departmet. Did he deserve it depends on what truth you believe.

What "truth" is it that you believe? The guy had already killed a sheriff's deputy, shooting him 8 times, twice in the head, how's that for overkill? Second, he was hiding in the woods under cover with said deputy's gun, do you think the SWAT officers were just going to wait and see if he was really going to shoot before returning fire? Or do you think they don't have the right to defend themselves because they are white and he is black? It's already been mentioned that there were 9 officers that fired, each about 12 rounds, which is a second or less of fire on full auto, which is NOT overkill. The number of shots was a result of the number of officers present, who all had the same right to defend themselves and end the threat. There was no "message" being sent, other than raising a gun at 10 SWAT officers is a very bad idea. The perp got exactly what he deserved and skin color has nothing to do with it.

 

[JMusic]

Well, they won't have to tell me twice, I'm not messin with'em.
Jim

 

[joab]

Think about it. He was a black male who had killed a white deputy in the south. He was being hunted by mostly a white police force.

You obviously haven'tspent much time in Florida. There's a reason we're called the only Yankee state south of the mason Dixon.

Do you actually know the racial make up of the police force in question or are you making bigotted assumptions based on geography just as you have made bigotted assumptions based on the assumed race of the officers?

To me the number of times this guy was shot is less concerning than the fact that had it been some poor laborer from an inner city , I doubt there would have been as much of an effort or reaction

In the first place when you kill a cop you are also killing what he represents, anyone that has ever worn a uniform will should understand that concept.

In the second place, why is it a fact that a laborer's murderer would not have been as relentlessly pursued as the killer of this officer, can you provide any links of any laborer in Florida that has not had his murderer pursued as vigorously.

My wife was attacked at the local mall last month, half the Ocoee police force showed up, and she ain't even white.

 

[rhubarb]

How many times has a man been pre-judged because he was a gun owner?

I am as virulently opposed to police abusing the powers given them by the citizenry as anyone, but this was a good shoot if there ever was one. This guy wasn't a gun owner. He killed a cop and took his gun. That makes him a murderer and thief. Then he ran and hid, trying to escape justice. Justice found him.

 

[knuckles]

You obviously haven'tspent much time in Florida. There's a reason we're called the only Yankee state south of the mason Dixon.

Indeed, I'll back you on that one. When I read CBS's comments I immediately knew he had it wrong. But, coming from Mass, one may be inclined to make such an assumption.

The situation is simply that he waved a gun, law enforcement engage the threat per their training. If you ask me, this guy committed suicide by cop...

 

[Gunpacker]

You can sure spot bleeding heart liberals. You can tell by the way they stand up for the opressed murdering, thieving, drug dealing, psychopathic, sociopathic, parasitic, useless element and against the police, no matter what the circumstances. Present company excepted.
I guess some think that is the "High Road".

 

[Biker]

It appears to me that the guy wanted to get dead and he was obliged. To be honest, given the situation, I doubt he had a choice.

Biker

 

[Joe Sacco]

"Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind"

 

[Billy_H]

To shed a bit more light on the subject....this shooting happened almost 24hrs into the manhunt, in a densly wooded area. The suspect had already shot and killed two deputies and wounded a third. He had also traded fire with officers on a total of 4 seperate occasions.

When they found him he was hidden in the dense brush, tunneled under a fallen oak tree. He was spotted and told to show his hands. He raised one, but did not raise/show his other hand that was covered with a piece of cloth/fabric. One of the officers reached down and pulled back the fabric to reveal a pistol. Suspect still didn't drop the weapon and started to raise the pistol. Shots fired, many reportedly hitting the oak tree the suspect was hiding under. The pistol recovered was the .45 the murdered deputy carried.

 

[roo_ster]

cbsbyte:

I lived in Florida for 7-8 years, total.

In my time there, I met more former Michiganers and former New Jearsians than I met native Floridians. Not a sinlge person on the block in my first residence was native to Florida, save the infant daughter of a couple from Brooklyn, NY.

Calling Florida "The South" is about as accurate as calling Ohio, "The Northwest." It may have been at one time, but it is not anymore.

 

[Dr. Dickie]

Depends where you are.
Florida is the up-sidedown state.
When I got here in 1976, the farther south you went, the more northern the people were (here in Noth Florida, almost everyone was native and VERY, VERY SOUTHERN).
Course, this is changing, as even here in the north, we are getting a lot of yankees

 

[dleong]

110 rounds discharged......

That's a lot of rounds. As a handloader, I'd be curious to know if they left the brass lying around the site of the confrontation.

 

[RobW]

...and don't forget, according to MSNBC the cop-killer was an ILLEGAL ALIEN!

I am always amused to read the comments of the heart-bleeding liberals. As Michael Savage says: "Liberalism is NOT a philosophy, it is a MENTAL ILLNESS"

(having been a liberal myself into my mid 20's before I recognized their true intentions).

 

[Blackfork]

SWAT Team standards

I'm a rock-ribbed conservative. But I have to say that if I sent my heavily armed, body-armored, highly-paid and trained SWAT team after some starving, underarmed Jamaican, no matter WHO he had shot or WHAT he had done...and they brought me back a dead carcass that they had shot 68 times...I'd have some badges and guns on my desk.

When police discipline breaks down...and they seem PROUD of it, then we are past the point of fixing things.

 

[lucky_fool]

Rule 37: There is no such thing as "overkill" . There is only "Open fire" and "I need to reload."

From The Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates

**edit**
I see Backwoods beat me to this one. That's what I get for commenting before I read the whole thread.

 

[BigFatKen]

I carried 56 twenty round mags in RVN.

Ask me if I ever ran out. (joke)

 

[Cybert]

Blackfork, is that sarcasm? It is almost beyond logic what you said.

 

[Blackfork]

Absolutely not.

I expect the highest level of professionalism from sworn police officers. Period. At all times. No exceptions, ESPECIALLY in tactical cases where they are deployed with a specific task.

This slimebag starts off by disarming a policeman and killing him and his dog with his own gun. Then he wounds another officer. Who is he? Billy the kid? Tarzan? Carlos Hathcox? Arnold Schwartznegger? No. He's a junked-out crackhead with a stolen pistol on ground he doesn't know with no backup. He's one layer thick. I bet he didn't have a cellphone or a waterbottle, much less a plan.

Then a professional SWAT team tracks him 24 hours and shoots him 68 times out of 110 rounds?

Tell me, when does the professionalism kick in?

Any special reason we are paying and training folks do do what any drunken lynch mob could pull off without crossing the threads on their bottle of vino?

I don't care if someone scalps the pope. If we, as citizens, send out the police to get him, I expect him back intact for trial or professionally killed by an expert if he refuses, not shot to rags by a bunch of badged avengers.

I'd doubt the story of a team that came in with the facts as they stand now. Is this their training? Is this some tactic taught in SWAT school?

Exactly as I said, I would have their badges and guns on my desk if I was the chief, not be bragging about how much ammo they shot.

Police departments were formed to be professionals. I fully expect folks who put on the badge and swear to uphold the LAW to BE the professionals they swore to BE at all times and under all conditions, no excuses.

This was a ragged unprofessional business from start to end.

 

[jerkyman45]

That not overkill. Thats just making sure.

 

[Cybert]

Blackfork, did you see the details? He was hidden in a tree. They had good reason to believe there would be misses. Body armor could have been involved.

 

[msb45]

To paraphrase Dirty Harry

There's nothing wrong with shooting as long as the right people get shot.

Really this is a slippery slope. If I'm ever involved in a shoot I'm going to slide lock or he hits the ground, whichever comes first. I wouldn't need a you shot him too much comment as much as these guys don't need one now.

Empty hands raised should get you arrested, a stashed weapon gets you dead.

JMHO

 

[Gunpacker]

UNDERARMED????
Are you serious??
Are you well? What would you consider adequately armed for a murderer who has killed a cop and wounded another???

 

[Geronimo45]

You have a full-auto, and you've got a team of men with full-autos. A cop-killer is drawing a bead on you.

 

[James T Thomas]

justice

The felon was originally reported to have committed suicide.

One of the responding officers at the scene stated "it was the worst case of suicide I have ever seen!"