joab
Member
Now thats funny, I don't care who's sideyou're on
Can you say, "overkill?"
- Thread starter Stickjockey
- Start date
- Status
Tell me, when does the professionalism kick in?
Any special reason we are paying and training folks do do what any drunken lynch mob could pull off without crossing the threads on their bottle of vino?
I don't care if someone scalps the pope. If we, as citizens, send out the police to get him, I expect him back intact for trial or professionally killed by an expert if he refuses, not shot to rags by a bunch of badged avengers.
I'd doubt the story of a team that came in with the facts as they stand now. Is this their training? Is this some tactic taught in SWAT school?
Exactly as I said, I would have their badges and guns on my desk if I was the chief, not be bragging about how much ammo they shot.
Police departments were formed to be professionals. I fully expect folks who put on the badge and swear to uphold the LAW to BE the professionals they swore to BE at all times and under all conditions, no excuses.
This was a ragged unprofessional business from start to end.
THE ABOVE IS FROM BLACKFORK MESSAGE #69
I wonder if you would have that same opinion if it was a member of your family that he had killed before running off in the woods....Well my friend it was a member of mine... It was professionalism that set up a perimeter so he could not escape..It was professionalism that he was the only that was killed when he was caught...I will be at the funeral tomorrow and wish I had never saw your post...
I will stop there as not to get banned...
Any special reason we are paying and training folks do do what any drunken lynch mob could pull off without crossing the threads on their bottle of vino?
I don't care if someone scalps the pope. If we, as citizens, send out the police to get him, I expect him back intact for trial or professionally killed by an expert if he refuses, not shot to rags by a bunch of badged avengers.
I'd doubt the story of a team that came in with the facts as they stand now. Is this their training? Is this some tactic taught in SWAT school?
Exactly as I said, I would have their badges and guns on my desk if I was the chief, not be bragging about how much ammo they shot.
Police departments were formed to be professionals. I fully expect folks who put on the badge and swear to uphold the LAW to BE the professionals they swore to BE at all times and under all conditions, no excuses.
This was a ragged unprofessional business from start to end.
THE ABOVE IS FROM BLACKFORK MESSAGE #69
I wonder if you would have that same opinion if it was a member of your family that he had killed before running off in the woods....Well my friend it was a member of mine... It was professionalism that set up a perimeter so he could not escape..It was professionalism that he was the only that was killed when he was caught...I will be at the funeral tomorrow and wish I had never saw your post...
I will stop there as not to get banned...
Last edited:
Metapotent
Member
Blackfork, Delta608, WTH are you talking about?
You can't expect andrenaline-driven police officers to use perfect judgement in such a situation.
The suspect had already MURDERED, he was in a covered area and was aiming a gun directly at the SWAT team. It wouldn't take long for this 10 man SWAT team to fire even 300 rounds in such a situation, and if they DID that it still would have been justified considering they were being threatened by a cop-killing criminal who was hiding in cover.
Overwhelming force and firepower isn't exclusive to the military, police use the same tactics. And I personally would have reacted the same way, if the man was black, white, Asian, hispanic, or an alien I would have made sure he was completely neutralized.
And besides that, what HARM was done even if the police did use slightly more bullets than were absolutely necessary?
Did the suspect become any 'deader'? Did he deserve to have his body in good enough condition for an open-casket funeral for his family, when he himself disfigured a police officer by blowing his brains in cold blood at close range?
The SWAT did nothing wrong, and even if they did use overkill (which I don't think they did) I can completely understand it. Its better to be safe than sorry, and its definitely better to have a dead cop-killer than an armed and possibly alive copy-killer.
You can't expect andrenaline-driven police officers to use perfect judgement in such a situation.
The suspect had already MURDERED, he was in a covered area and was aiming a gun directly at the SWAT team. It wouldn't take long for this 10 man SWAT team to fire even 300 rounds in such a situation, and if they DID that it still would have been justified considering they were being threatened by a cop-killing criminal who was hiding in cover.
Overwhelming force and firepower isn't exclusive to the military, police use the same tactics. And I personally would have reacted the same way, if the man was black, white, Asian, hispanic, or an alien I would have made sure he was completely neutralized.
And besides that, what HARM was done even if the police did use slightly more bullets than were absolutely necessary?
Did the suspect become any 'deader'? Did he deserve to have his body in good enough condition for an open-casket funeral for his family, when he himself disfigured a police officer by blowing his brains in cold blood at close range?
The SWAT did nothing wrong, and even if they did use overkill (which I don't think they did) I can completely understand it. Its better to be safe than sorry, and its definitely better to have a dead cop-killer than an armed and possibly alive copy-killer.
Delta, "professionally killed by an expert" That's an interesting statement, does that mean executed ? There were 10 experts each wanting to stop the BG from killing him as he had killed the Deputy, and each wanting to make sure he went home to his family.The BG acted , the police reacted. The BGs always call the play, the police do their best .
Blackfork, Delta608, WTH are you talking about?
You can't expect andrenaline-driven police officers to use perfect judgement in such a situation.
The suspect had already MURDERED, he was in a covered area and was aiming a gun directly at the SWAT team. It wouldn't take long for this 10 man SWAT team to fire even 300 rounds in such a situation, and if they DID that it still would have been justified considering they were being threatened by a cop-killing criminal who was hiding in cover.
Overwhelming force and firepower isn't exclusive to the military, police use the same tactics. And I personally would have reacted the same way, if the man was black, white, Asian, hispanic, or an alien I would have made sure he was completely neutralized.
And besides that, what HARM was done even if the police did use slightly more bullets than were absolutely necessary?
Did the suspect become any 'deader'? Did he deserve to have his body in good enough condition for an open-casket funeral for his family, when he himself disfigured a police officer by blowing his brains in cold blood at close range?
The SWAT did nothing wrong, and even if they did use overkill (which I don't think they did) I can completely understand it. Its better to be safe than sorry, and its definitely better to have a dead cop-killer than an armed and possibly alive copy-killer.
I was quoting message NO# 69.....I would have made the 69th and 70th bullet had I been there..!!!!:banghead: :banghead:
You can't expect andrenaline-driven police officers to use perfect judgement in such a situation.
The suspect had already MURDERED, he was in a covered area and was aiming a gun directly at the SWAT team. It wouldn't take long for this 10 man SWAT team to fire even 300 rounds in such a situation, and if they DID that it still would have been justified considering they were being threatened by a cop-killing criminal who was hiding in cover.
Overwhelming force and firepower isn't exclusive to the military, police use the same tactics. And I personally would have reacted the same way, if the man was black, white, Asian, hispanic, or an alien I would have made sure he was completely neutralized.
And besides that, what HARM was done even if the police did use slightly more bullets than were absolutely necessary?
Did the suspect become any 'deader'? Did he deserve to have his body in good enough condition for an open-casket funeral for his family, when he himself disfigured a police officer by blowing his brains in cold blood at close range?
The SWAT did nothing wrong, and even if they did use overkill (which I don't think they did) I can completely understand it. Its better to be safe than sorry, and its definitely better to have a dead cop-killer than an armed and possibly alive copy-killer.
I was quoting message NO# 69.....I would have made the 69th and 70th bullet had I been there..!!!!:banghead: :banghead:
cbsbyte
Member
Its fun to read some of the comments posted here. No one seems to have a problem, and many actually state that they should have pumped more lead in him(which to say the least is a very distrubing comment, and show alot about the poster mental state.), when a heavley armed all white SWAT team that used extreme force to end a mans life. Yes, he did kill a cop but two wrongs don't make a right. What happen to do process. Yet in other fourm post people are screaming bloody murder when a SWAT team breaks into the wrong house and terrorize the family. I quess in one secenrio its ok to use extreme force while the other it is not. Sounds very hypercritical to me. I bet most of the poster here, like the police force are all white. Which goes to show that times have not changed in the south or anywhere in this country.
Geronimo45
Member
It's a dangerous thing to start saying somebody used too much ammunition. Most SD people say to keep firing until the gun runs dry or the BG hits the dirt. The cops are using full-auto. The guy's killed before, and he's levelling a gun. There's no reason why you should think he won't shoot again - and you're there to make sure that doesn't happen. The rest of the group is thinking the same thing.
When you start legislating about overkill, you're liable to get yourselves in trouble if you ever have to fire in SD.
When you start legislating about overkill, you're liable to get yourselves in trouble if you ever have to fire in SD.
lacoochee
Member
I am proud of the way we handled this incident.
Within minutes of the shooting the whole are was locked down. Police departments from all over Central and South Florida sent officers to help the Lakeland PD. They coordinated their search and kept the goblin from moving into a more populated where he could have done even more damage. Had they really been a mob, they would have just fired the brush and waited from him to run out. That's the traditional method....... So in my humble Florida cracker opinion they were nice enough to make it quick and relatively painless. Some people would complain if you hung them with a new rope. Amazing.....
Within minutes of the shooting the whole are was locked down. Police departments from all over Central and South Florida sent officers to help the Lakeland PD. They coordinated their search and kept the goblin from moving into a more populated where he could have done even more damage. Had they really been a mob, they would have just fired the brush and waited from him to run out. That's the traditional method....... So in my humble Florida cracker opinion they were nice enough to make it quick and relatively painless. Some people would complain if you hung them with a new rope. Amazing.....
As others have said, the swat team averaged 12 bullets apiece, for the 9 out of 10 that fired.
I know how quick I can empty a semi-auto pistol, and a full auto carbine can be emptied even quicker. Somebody else mentioned that the shooting on tape lasted only seconds. I believe that.
Moreover, in a situation like this, the police officers are justified in protecting each other. This means that the moment one opens fire, they all open fire. Result: 110 bullets fired, likely in 5-8 seconds.
As Geronimo45 said, many SD shooters are taught to 'shoot until the threat is gone'. You hope it's gone before you've emptied your magazine, but there you go. They'd already lost two officers that day, no need risk loosing any more, with the caveat that letting the guy go would be worse for them later. They only have one suspect to deal with, so empty the magazine into him and assess while reloading.
Delta608, to avoid confusion, it'd be best to use some tags ie:
The result:
I know how quick I can empty a semi-auto pistol, and a full auto carbine can be emptied even quicker. Somebody else mentioned that the shooting on tape lasted only seconds. I believe that.
Moreover, in a situation like this, the police officers are justified in protecting each other. This means that the moment one opens fire, they all open fire. Result: 110 bullets fired, likely in 5-8 seconds.
As Geronimo45 said, many SD shooters are taught to 'shoot until the threat is gone'. You hope it's gone before you've emptied your magazine, but there you go. They'd already lost two officers that day, no need risk loosing any more, with the caveat that letting the guy go would be worse for them later. They only have one suspect to deal with, so empty the magazine into him and assess while reloading.
Delta608, to avoid confusion, it'd be best to use some tags ie:
HTML:
[quote=quoter]Text being quoted[/quote]The result:
quoter said:
cassandrasdaddy
Member
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2006
- Messages
- 4,206
that many guys
and that many rounds in a couple seconds with no crossfire issues id pretty good training
and that many rounds in a couple seconds with no crossfire issues id pretty good training
The man forfeited his right to due process when he killed two police officers (yup, I'm countin' the dog) and tried for more. "Hey he's got a gun!" BAM! "Whoa he's shootin' at us!! Careful don't hurt him, he has to go to jail!" HA!
When did this become a racial issue?! I am sick and tired of people playing the friggin' race card when the police take necessary action!! So the man was black, so friggin' what?! He was a criminal! HE MURDERED PEOPLE! I don't care whether he was white, black, Mexican, Islamic, green or yellow. In that situation the cops would have reacted the same way no matter what, and they have my respect and admiration. The man they killed was an armed lunatic that attempted to use deadly force, with a stolen weapon, against officers of the law that had a lawful warrant for his arrest. He tried for it, they just beat him to it.
I have a couple good friends on the Lakeland PD and I was relieved to hear neither were hurt. And just as relieved when they got the sorry sob.
"There are 3 steps to engaging a threat:
1. Never hesitate
2. Kill threat before threat kills you
3. Kill threat 'til threat can't be killed no more."
-Don't remember who said it but it rings true.
SILENTSOUL308
Member
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2006
- Messages
- 50
a couple more in him would be fine with me........good rittance!
Eightball
Member
The guy shot the deputy 8 times, each of the SWAT dudes gets 8 shots.....total's close to 64, in theory.
I'd say he deserved it. Overkill for overkill.
I'd say he deserved it. Overkill for overkill.
Blackfork
Member
The HIGH Road.
Looked like a straight-up cordon-and-search job to me. It's not Geronimo or the Werewolf of London in there, it's just some dumb slimeball. He doesn't have a WMD or magical powers. Hauling him out looking like swiss cheese doesn't seem to uphold the strictest traditions of American Policing. I bet it's going to be a lot more trouble than he was worth when the lawyers get through.
Not being the excitable type I wouldn't have prefered teams that had blood in their eye or couldn't put aside their personal involvement. I'd want professional LEOs. He had a pistol and I bet they knew his bullet count. He didn't have surprise anymore, so what's he got? Nothing. He's done as soon as the cordon is sealed.
I'd like to remind everyone that this forum is the HIGH Road, not the low road, nor some other road. This forum is a place to promote, discuss and explore events through the most rational, democratic, egalitarian and American views. In a forum like this folks who have volunteered and sworn to uphold the laws which protect the American idea MUST be held to the highest standards. They swore to uphold those standards. If they can't put aside their personal feelings while on duty they are not fit to serve and should step aside.
I'm suspicious, given the reported actions and words of the officers and supervisors involved that they were NOT upholding those traditions, but instead driven by personal passions. Time may tell.
In the meantime I am certainly aware that I hold a minority view. Most folks posting seem to be happy enough with a suspect shot multiple times by multiple officers. Perhaps some would have prefered his head on a pike as well. I disagree. It's my view that excessive force by LEO units is NOT advantageous to the police or the citizenry from which they draw their legitimacy.
And I will repeat myself: If I had charge of a unit that went in after a cordoned subject and brought him out dead with this many bullet holes in him, I'd want some badges, some guns, and some trainers would need to explain exactly what was going on.
Looked like a straight-up cordon-and-search job to me. It's not Geronimo or the Werewolf of London in there, it's just some dumb slimeball. He doesn't have a WMD or magical powers. Hauling him out looking like swiss cheese doesn't seem to uphold the strictest traditions of American Policing. I bet it's going to be a lot more trouble than he was worth when the lawyers get through.
Not being the excitable type I wouldn't have prefered teams that had blood in their eye or couldn't put aside their personal involvement. I'd want professional LEOs. He had a pistol and I bet they knew his bullet count. He didn't have surprise anymore, so what's he got? Nothing. He's done as soon as the cordon is sealed.
I'd like to remind everyone that this forum is the HIGH Road, not the low road, nor some other road. This forum is a place to promote, discuss and explore events through the most rational, democratic, egalitarian and American views. In a forum like this folks who have volunteered and sworn to uphold the laws which protect the American idea MUST be held to the highest standards. They swore to uphold those standards. If they can't put aside their personal feelings while on duty they are not fit to serve and should step aside.
I'm suspicious, given the reported actions and words of the officers and supervisors involved that they were NOT upholding those traditions, but instead driven by personal passions. Time may tell.
In the meantime I am certainly aware that I hold a minority view. Most folks posting seem to be happy enough with a suspect shot multiple times by multiple officers. Perhaps some would have prefered his head on a pike as well. I disagree. It's my view that excessive force by LEO units is NOT advantageous to the police or the citizenry from which they draw their legitimacy.
And I will repeat myself: If I had charge of a unit that went in after a cordoned subject and brought him out dead with this many bullet holes in him, I'd want some badges, some guns, and some trainers would need to explain exactly what was going on.
qlajlu
Member
Did I miss something?
The guy killed two cops (yes, the dog was a highly-trained professional LEO) and I don't care what color the perp was, white, black, blue, brown, red, orange, chartreuse, green, whatever, he was a murderer. This team of professional, highly-specialized LEOs (I don't care what color they were either, they all wore a badge which makes them brothers) went after him with the sole purpose of bringing him to justice. Now, since the perp was so stupid as to kill TWO police officers, all the officers WANTED this guy. When he came up with a gun in his hand the decision was easily made to use deadly force although that may not have been the original intention. To say that they were fast on the trigger may have some validity to it; after all he had killed two of their brothers. Only another highly-trained professional in the discipline of psychology could make that distinction during an intense debriefing. The end result was that he was brought to justice. End debate. Period.
This happened in Florida. What are the chances that the SWAT team was all white? Where has it been reported that the SWAT team was all white? (URL please) Why are there people still trying to make this a racial thing?cbsbyte said:
The guy killed two cops (yes, the dog was a highly-trained professional LEO) and I don't care what color the perp was, white, black, blue, brown, red, orange, chartreuse, green, whatever, he was a murderer. This team of professional, highly-specialized LEOs (I don't care what color they were either, they all wore a badge which makes them brothers) went after him with the sole purpose of bringing him to justice. Now, since the perp was so stupid as to kill TWO police officers, all the officers WANTED this guy. When he came up with a gun in his hand the decision was easily made to use deadly force although that may not have been the original intention. To say that they were fast on the trigger may have some validity to it; after all he had killed two of their brothers. Only another highly-trained professional in the discipline of psychology could make that distinction during an intense debriefing. The end result was that he was brought to justice. End debate. Period.
As an ex-LEO I can understand the "blood in the eye" attitude that Blackfork alluded to. To say that I am glad this bottom-feeder is now history would be a gross understatement. However, Blackfork does have a very solid argument. It is the same argument that came up over the military's misuse of authority in the prison in Baghdad. There has to be accountability and over 100 shots fired is a little extreme. If only 10 or 15 shots had been fired, this thread would probably not have exploded into 91+ posts.Blackfork said:
It would take nine better than average shooters about 4 seconds to unload 110 rounds. Or about 1 second if they were armed with full autos--a distinct possibility for a SWAT team.
Sit where you are and count:
One-one thousand, two-one thousand, three-one thousand, four-one thousand.
Certainly not an extended shootout. Doesn't sound like overkill to me.
If people would stop and think before opening their mouths they might surprise themselves with the conclusions they reach.
Sit where you are and count:
One-one thousand, two-one thousand, three-one thousand, four-one thousand.
Certainly not an extended shootout. Doesn't sound like overkill to me.
If people would stop and think before opening their mouths they might surprise themselves with the conclusions they reach.
Limeyfellow
Member
Eh? Standing up for the laws that been in place for over two centuries is a conservative rather than a liberal approach so you could say the innocent until found guilty principle has been common conservative thought for some three hundred plus years, but someone always have to bring politics into the matter. This country really has a strange idea of what a conservative is and its just turned into a buzzword.
This is simple. BG shoots 2 LEO, BG latter points gun at SWAT, SWAT Shoots.
SWAT is trained more like the military than average LEO. Way I teach Marines...
(1) BG points Weapon... CHECK GEOMETERY, (1) M249 and (6) M16A4's start to shoot, 1k rounds later ... BG now fits into a 5 gallon pail, or just empty out some sugar packets and let the ants clean up the mess. Bullets are cheaper than band-aids, and I'd rather shoot than do buddy aid.
EDITED, cause I let my PTSD run into the key board
SWAT is trained more like the military than average LEO. Way I teach Marines...
(1) BG points Weapon... CHECK GEOMETERY, (1) M249 and (6) M16A4's start to shoot, 1k rounds later ... BG now fits into a 5 gallon pail, or just empty out some sugar packets and let the ants clean up the mess. Bullets are cheaper than band-aids, and I'd rather shoot than do buddy aid.
EDITED, cause I let my PTSD run into the key board
Beetle Bailey
Member
I don't think it's overkill considering the number of officers firing. I do think the number of rounds fired is distracting us from a more important issue; one that Biker alluded to and Blackfork pointed out clearly:
Were the officers out for blood?
Of course, I am not asking yet another officer to take a bullet or two just so the killer can be brought to trial. If he raised a pistol at officers, then he received the appropriate response. If, after the shooting stops, and the officers, relieved to find that no further officers were injured, thought "Well, he's dead of his own making and maybe it's better this way anyways," I'd be okay with that.
That statement can be read a few different ways.
Again, were the officers out for blood? If not, I'm fine with the outcome. But if they were, then I'd have to ask my fellow THR forum members the following:
Is that what we want from our law enforcement officers?
Were the officers out for blood?
Of course, I am not asking yet another officer to take a bullet or two just so the killer can be brought to trial. If he raised a pistol at officers, then he received the appropriate response. If, after the shooting stops, and the officers, relieved to find that no further officers were injured, thought "Well, he's dead of his own making and maybe it's better this way anyways," I'd be okay with that.
That statement can be read a few different ways.
Again, were the officers out for blood? If not, I'm fine with the outcome. But if they were, then I'd have to ask my fellow THR forum members the following:
Is that what we want from our law enforcement officers?
GW
Member
I'm reminded of that case in NYC where the cops shot the wrong fellow as he brought his wallet out after they told him not to move.
The cops there kept shooting because ricochets from the other officers were flying past them making them think they were under fire. I wonder if that might have been a contributing factor in this case. also, much as I like the Sheriff's line about how they would have shot the BG more if they had more ammo;
Well...
You just know that line will bite him on the a$$ later
The cops there kept shooting because ricochets from the other officers were flying past them making them think they were under fire. I wonder if that might have been a contributing factor in this case. also, much as I like the Sheriff's line about how they would have shot the BG more if they had more ammo;
Well...
You just know that line will bite him on the a$$ later
The moral arc of the universe bends at the elbow of justice.
The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. dr king
I think the question should be is a cop live more valuable than mine or yours.was he shot because he killed an other human or because he killed a cop.
I am not bashing the police for doing a thankless job, the bible call them ministers and I am thankfull someone is willing to do the job however I am not excusing them for a wrong.
shoting an armed killer is not wrong but shoting him 98 times that is overkill.
If he was a white armed killer what are the odds of him being shot 98 times.
It's why a recent study at Washington University in St. Louis found that the mere presence of dark skin increases the probability that an object (perhaps in the person's hand) will be misperceived as a weapon.
13-year police veteran, Sgt. Mark Nelson, distraught over being dumped by the female officer he'd been dating, went to the apartment of her new boyfriend (also a cop), while both were inside. He attempted to gain entry, fired bullets randomly into the air, and when police arrived, proceeded to shoot at three officers and put bullet holes in their vehicles. He then threatened to shoot down a news helicopter, and held an entire neighborhood essentially hostage for four hours: all down the road from an elementary school that was letting out for the day.Now imagine that this overwrought, bullet-spraying individual had been a civilian -- especially a young black man. How long do you think it would have taken for police on the scene to drop him in a hail of bullets? In a nation where black men are shot dozens of times for brandishing wallets and cell phones, it doesn't take a genius to guess that the time needed to "resolve" the situation would have been well short of 240 minutes.
But in Nelson's case, his fellow officers insisted that he posed "no real threat" to them or the general public. After calm and rational negotiation, he laid down his weapon and was taken into custody.
why was Amado Diallo shot 41 times by NYPD, he was unarm and I remember there was a lot of you guys blaming him 
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Mayor Giuliani, hideously praised the “restraint” of the New York Police. I guess that was for not shooting him 42 times.
where was the outrage
On August 9 Abner Louima, an immigrant from Haiti, was set upon by cops outside a Haitian nightclub in Brooklyn. He was handcuffed and thrown into a squad car. On the way to the 70th precinct station, cops beat Louima with their radios and fists. At the police station, the cops pulled Louima's pants down, took him into the bathroom, and sodomized the cuffed man with the wooden handle of a toilet plunger. The cops shoved the plunger, covered with blood and feces, into Louima's mouth.
once again where was the outrage
white Americans wonder why their black and brown counterparts question the fundamental fairness of our criminal justice system? But why ask why? The answers become more and more plain every day. They are as latant as the daily headlines. And it takes a special kind of color-blindness not to notice them.
I think roosevelt said it best "No man is above the law and no man is below it; nor do we ask any man's permission when we require him to obey it.""Obedience to the law is demanded as a right; not asked as a favor."
what I am reading from alot of your post most of you are willing to accept Vigilante Justice. does a guilty man deserve a trial by his peers or should cop killers just be lynched .
Quote from Friedrich Nietzsche "Distrust everyone in whom the impulse to punish is powerful."
The hope of a secure and livable world lies with disciplined nonconformists who are dedicated to justice, peace and brotherhood . dr king
The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. dr king
I think the question should be is a cop live more valuable than mine or yours.was he shot because he killed an other human or because he killed a cop.
I am not bashing the police for doing a thankless job, the bible call them ministers and I am thankfull someone is willing to do the job however I am not excusing them for a wrong.
shoting an armed killer is not wrong but shoting him 98 times that is overkill.
If he was a white armed killer what are the odds of him being shot 98 times.
It's why a recent study at Washington University in St. Louis found that the mere presence of dark skin increases the probability that an object (perhaps in the person's hand) will be misperceived as a weapon.
13-year police veteran, Sgt. Mark Nelson, distraught over being dumped by the female officer he'd been dating, went to the apartment of her new boyfriend (also a cop), while both were inside. He attempted to gain entry, fired bullets randomly into the air, and when police arrived, proceeded to shoot at three officers and put bullet holes in their vehicles. He then threatened to shoot down a news helicopter, and held an entire neighborhood essentially hostage for four hours: all down the road from an elementary school that was letting out for the day.Now imagine that this overwrought, bullet-spraying individual had been a civilian -- especially a young black man. How long do you think it would have taken for police on the scene to drop him in a hail of bullets? In a nation where black men are shot dozens of times for brandishing wallets and cell phones, it doesn't take a genius to guess that the time needed to "resolve" the situation would have been well short of 240 minutes.
But in Nelson's case, his fellow officers insisted that he posed "no real threat" to them or the general public. After calm and rational negotiation, he laid down his weapon and was taken into custody.
why was Amado Diallo shot 41 times by NYPD, he was unarm
and I remember there was a lot of you guys blaming him :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: Mayor Giuliani, hideously praised the “restraint” of the New York Police. I guess that was for not shooting him 42 times.
where was the outrage
On August 9 Abner Louima, an immigrant from Haiti, was set upon by cops outside a Haitian nightclub in Brooklyn. He was handcuffed and thrown into a squad car. On the way to the 70th precinct station, cops beat Louima with their radios and fists. At the police station, the cops pulled Louima's pants down, took him into the bathroom, and sodomized the cuffed man with the wooden handle of a toilet plunger. The cops shoved the plunger, covered with blood and feces, into Louima's mouth.
once again where was the outrage
white Americans wonder why their black and brown counterparts question the fundamental fairness of our criminal justice system? But why ask why? The answers become more and more plain every day. They are as latant as the daily headlines. And it takes a special kind of color-blindness not to notice them.
I think roosevelt said it best "No man is above the law and no man is below it; nor do we ask any man's permission when we require him to obey it.""Obedience to the law is demanded as a right; not asked as a favor."
what I am reading from alot of your post most of you are willing to accept Vigilante Justice. does a guilty man deserve a trial by his peers or should cop killers just be lynched .
Quote from Friedrich Nietzsche "Distrust everyone in whom the impulse to punish is powerful."
The hope of a secure and livable world lies with disciplined nonconformists who are dedicated to justice, peace and brotherhood
. dr kingMikebnice,
There's more to these situations than news blurbs.
1. The cop fired randomly into the air vs. this guy killing two cops(one a dog) and wounding another.
2. Did he really shoot at the cops, or just their vehicles(and not while they were in them).
Getting the guy alive is 'above and beyond' in these sorts of circumstances. I wouldn't object if they had dropped the guy.
There's more to these situations than news blurbs.
1. The cop fired randomly into the air vs. this guy killing two cops(one a dog) and wounding another.
2. Did he really shoot at the cops, or just their vehicles(and not while they were in them).
Getting the guy alive is 'above and beyond' in these sorts of circumstances. I wouldn't object if they had dropped the guy.
knuckles
Member
Geez Mike, I wanted to read your post, but it's so hard to look at....
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