Canes, heavy club or fast whip?

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Carl Levitian

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Being in need of a cane since the age of 30, I've gathered a large selection of rustic walking sticks over the years. I hate the old fogy cane, so as a young man with a service injury, I went for the rustic looking walking stick. I've got thick heavy ones, and light weight dressy ones. I've made some of my own from local grown hornbeam, which is a tough and impact resistance wood. Then I have a couple of real Irish Blackthorns, that are a bit over one inch thick and heavy.

I go the idea to try them all out on disguarded meat from the Safeway dumpster. I scavenged some spare ribs that had passed the sell by date, as well as some chickens. I got to swinging and jabbing.

On the spare ribs, covered by two layers of old jeans, the heavy sticks broke some bones, and did some damage. But the biggest surprise was the lighter sticks. One hornbeam, just under an inch at the top to just over 3/4 of an inch at the bottom, and swings very fast, broke the same amount of bones in the planks of ribs, but messed up the meat tissue on the ribs. It cut and tore meat, even through a layer of denum pants material. None of my thicker sticks cut and mangled meat like the thinner hornbeam. On raw chickens, again the 3/4 hornbeam broke bones like the thicker stick, but also split open the raw chicken.

I can only wonder if in the real world, a fast hornbeam used against an attackers hands and wrists, and face, would have the same effect. It also gives me cause to investigate the Asian rattan sticks. Targeting the hands of an assailant, and breaking bones in the hands seems a good thing. If a hand has a knife in it, and you use the stick to block the hand/wrist using a fast swing, then the hand is going to have a very hard time holding anything.

On an old ham, I did some thrust tests, and again the slim end of a stick with a brass ferral on the bottom pierced much better. The thicker stick with a rubber end didn't pierce to a great depth. Maybe an inch indentation in the meat. But the slim stick with the rubber end pulled off and the 3/4 brass end, pennatrated almost to the center bone. About 3 to 3 1/2 inches strait into the meat.

Working with a training partner, I found the movement and reverse movement of the stick for blocking and parrying, easier with the lighter stick with a bit of a taper. Down at the local senior center, there's a guy who gives training in stick use, and he incorporates some of the moves from asian martial arts. It seems like speed is good in producing crippling injuries. Using the Kendo rule of "Thrust to the soft, cut to the hard" a light stick can be faster and easier to wield in a high stress situation. You can start off with a two handed block, then switch to a fast cutting blow to a exposed hand or wrist. Two handed thrusts to the face and throat are harder to stop after a hand is disabled. Doctor Tanaka has opened my eyes to a broader use of the stick. It's not just for swinging like a club anymore.

Carl.
 
E = 1/2 mv^2
p= mv

Momentum is a linear function of velocity while energy is a square function of velocity
 
There is a balance between too heavy and too light. You don’t want something so heavy that you can’t use it quickly, on the other hand you do not need something so light that it has no penetration. Think in terms of implements of corporeal punishment; whips, sjambocks, cat-o-nine tails etc. These are all similar as in they are light and very fast and are designed to inflict pain but not to cause serious injury below the skin. A baseball bat is on the other end of the spectrum. It has “penetration” and can break heavy bone, rupture organs and cause deep tissue trauma though it might not cause surface damage to the skin like a car antenna might.

You need the heaviest stick that you can wield with one hand, AND NO HEAVIER!
For most men this is somewhere around a pound to a pound and a quarter.
 
I have several canes a few that I made. I made two from Phenoic rods that I leaned about here, from several members. Link to rods.
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=24375&catid=0&clickid=popcorn

The first I made was from a 1 inch CE grade rod. Nice, heavy, and seemingly indestructable after using it on a heavy bag, and in sparring against various wooden sticks, for several years. I got to thinking about a quicker cane about a year ago and got another rod. This time a G-10 grade 3/4 inch. Lighter and quicker than the larger one plus I was able to find a brass end that would fit. I couldn't find one for the larger cane. I think that besides the quicker speed the smaller size concentrates the force/damage in a smaller area, square inch wise. That might be some of the effect you are seeing wihen you tested them on the meat. I have been a martial artist for over 40 years and have trained in various forms of stick fighting for nearly as long. Quick is always good.
 
Good for you, grumps. I'm a firm believer in canvas micarta for staves.
 
Nice post, especially with your empirical testing on realistic targets.
Light and heavy both have their place, within reasonable constraints as Owen points out. And some depends on your style of fighting. Sometimes lighter has the advantage of the first strike (or 3) when wielded against someone armed with a heavier implement.
 
There's always a point at which the individual "stick" reaches an optimum weight/size for an individual user. This optimizes the energy and momentum of the stick to do the most damage in the hands of the user.
 
I've fenced Epee, Foil and Dabbled in Saber. Epee is slow and heavy (relatively), Saber is for sadists who enjoy having their torsos covered in welts. Foil is faster than epee, heavier than saber... but not like dueling with steel bullwhips.

I prefer heavy. A 6.5/7 lb wood reinforced steel shaft with a steel core head is very hard to stop. I've split a Non-Flimsy desk with a good stroke. It bent the stick a bit, but I fixed that by driving over it with the car a few times.

My eldest accidentally whacked me with one 4 years ago, that 5 year old messed me up, a deep bruise across my voicebox and vital vessels in the neck. took weeks to go away.

Doesn't hurt that my only "good" (hah) arm lifts these sticks with every step. it's like carrying a child's bowling ball with you. Light as a feather now to me. I can crack cement squares in the sidewalk where erosion has hollowed out underneath.

A straight thrust is like the stroke of a 7 lb hammer, focused into a 1 inch diameter impact point at the narrow end.

Light can work, and can very much beat heavy (Dang saber fencers ;) ). But heavy only has to connect once.
 
CaneMaster Canes offers a complete training series for their canes. I have Oak and Hickory CaneMaster canes and pity the poor XXX that gets on the wrong end of either one of them.

Flash
 
A welt will not stop a determined attacker no matter how fast you are. It takes deep tissue trauma or structural damage to drop a man who is either unable to feel pain due to chemical inebriation or who just plain does not give a ****. Think of it like this, if you were wearing several thick shirts, a sweater and a leather bomber jacket you could probably take a pretty good stroke ftom a light weight rattan cane or a fencing foil but you could not take a full power strike from an axe handle.
 
I'm one of those who favor a light stick wielded as fast as possible with as many strikes as possible (if you must use something in the way of an impact weapon). Not sure where you can find it but a video of far east (Singapore ?) riot police in action with rattan canes will give you an idea of what I'm talking about. In use by someone trained to use them it looks like kendo on speed..... Against a baton, stick or knife wielder all the focus on your opponents hands, then work higher.

Back in the Stone Age (1973-1995) I carried and used a variety of impact weapons as part of my duty gear. Nightsticks, blackjacks, ASP batons all got their carry time. I can't say that impact weapons were very effective against really fired up individuals (drunk, drugged, or just plain crazy). In fact, in later years I almost never used an impact weapon. In situations where an impact weapon is very effective you probably shouldn't be using one in the first place (unless winding up in court or on TV is your goal) and against a really fired up guy/gal I just never found them to be that effective in stopping someone. The next day the individual might look like a train hit them but that won't help you much when they're trying to bite your nose (or other sensitive body part)...

I'm sure glad that my time on the street was before the widespread use of cameras and video that is common today. In the heat of the moment any tactic or weapon will come into play whether you planned it that way or not. A stout walking stick for anyone that needs one can be pretty handy.
 
A welt will not stop a determined attacker no matter how fast you are. It takes deep tissue trauma or structural damage to drop a man who is either unable to feel pain due to chemical inebriation or who just plain does not give a ****. Think of it like this, if you were wearing several thick shirts, a sweater and a leather bomber jacket you could probably take a pretty good stroke from a light weight rattan cane or a fencing foil but you could not take a full power strike from an axe handle.
__________________

I guess I'll have to just agree to disagree with everything there.

I'm not talking about welts, or even trying to strike areas covered by multible layers of sweatshirts and leather jackets. I'm talking hands, face, throat, knees, and maybe the family jewels. Using a 14 once hornbeam stick, it was breaking ribs and spliting flesh under a layer of jean material. That's more than a swat that leaves a welt. It does not take a lot of impact or pressure to break the bones in the human hand. Even pro boxers who heavily tape up their hands before a fight with padded boxing gloves suffer bone breaks in their hands. Some low life with a knife is not going to be a threat long with his hands broken up, and you then retreat from the area and go on with your life. Or a fast strike across the face will possibly take out an eye. The tissue damage from a rough fast moving stick on meat was impressive. Using fast repeat snap strikes, buys you time and distance. It keeps the perp at bay, while inflicting damage, like jabs from a left.

You're not going to drop someone attacking you with any normal looking cane/walking stick. Anything heavy as the ax handle will draw attention. Not the point of it. But a well used stick will create an opening to disengage and leave the area. It will let you neutralize the threat, and that's legally what you want. Dropping a person by clubbing them down can result in an accidental death by head injury, and that's a can of worms you don't want. Cave in somebody's brain bucket, and even if the law lets you walk, there's the unlawful death suit by the 'victims' family. No matter how bad he was in life, once he's dead, he's "a good boy, with a good heart!" Lawyers bill by the hour, and it ain't cheap.

On the other hand, nobody is going to feel too sorry for a low life with a cast on his hand after try to mug you. And no matter how high he was, a hand that has bones broken will not function to hold a knife or broken bottle, or whatever. We're talking just what you yourself are preaching; structural damage. Structural damage to hands, making the low life as harmless as a rattlesnake with pulled fangs.

It sounds like your main use for a stick is a club. It may behoove you to get some training to widen your view of things. A stick is a blocking devise, thrust weapon, with swinging as a club coming being just one facet of it's use. Beating someone about the body when clad in sweatshirts and leather jackets is a pretty pointless exercise. Just go for the exposed and more delicate easy to damage spots. First rule of kendo; cut to the hard, thrust to the soft. The end of the stick is as dangerous or more than the long end.

A stick is such a nice tool for defense, it's a shame to reduce it to just a club.

Carl.
 
Which wood?

The boken (sp?) that I have seen, was made of a light, dense, hard, and maybe a bit 'whippy' wood. Two foot Escrema (?) sticks appear to be made of the similar wood. Those seem to move foil fast and impossible to defend against.

It'd seem that construction using mat'l similar to that would offer a fast but tough walking aid.

Without getting too deep into your crystal ball, does anyone have any knowledge of this wood is likely to be. And how it'd do as an aid to walking TR style.?

I imagine it'd be way preferable to an aluminum tube but marginally heavier. Don't know. Suggestions?

Thanks,

salty
 
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I have to agree with Carl here... I walk with a stick as well, and while I do like a bit of heft to my stick, I don't want a 2" axe handle or tree root... It's not the 20's and I really look silly walking my scrawny tail around with a shillelagh. I like the Cold Steel "City Stick" though it's got a little bit more give than I would like. I'm waiting on delivery of a CE grade 3/4" rod to try out, and I'll go from there, but I currently use a 1" waxwood staff that I cut down to just above my hip for proper walking (as a cane rather than as a staff). It's just a touch too heavy for me at the proper length. I thought about carving it some to lighten the weight, but I don't want to do anything to harm the structural integrity of the stick.
 
Which wood?
The boken (sp?) that I have seen, was made of a light, dense, hard, and maybe a bit 'whippy' wood. Two foot Escrema (?) sticks appear to be made of the similar wood. Those seem to move foil fast and impossible to defend against.

It'd seem that construction using mat'l similar to that would offer a fast but tough walking aid.

Without getting too deep into your crystal ball, does anyone have any knowledge of this wood is likely to be. And how it'd do as an aid to walking TR style.?

I imagine it'd be way preferable to an aluminum tube but marginally heavier. Don't know. Suggestions?

Thanks,

salty

Salty, I've tried a ton of woods, but my best luck has been with hornbeam. Sometimes called iron wood, or mussel wood for the marked ridges in the wood that resemble mussel. You won't ever get a real strait piece, it's curvy knarly twisted stuff. But I can only conclude that the very nature of it's twisted grain, gives it the strength and impact resistance. When fully dried after 8 to 12 months down a nice cool basement, it's actually pretty light for it's size. But it tried breaking some, and at 3/4 inch diameter, I repeatedly slammed my cement basement floor with no damage. With one inch, my arm gets tired. finaly down to 1/2 inch that I'd never use for a walking stick, I managed to crack a piece after a large number of wacks on the cement. This is some tough stuff.

Because of this, the waling sticks you make out of this stuff will be some rustic looking country walking sticks with some crooks and curves. Lots of distinct character. The root knob handles when polished, take on a smooth almost brier pipe look to the grain. When I'm off hunting sticks, I dig around the base with a small garden trowel to find one with a root going off in a good angle for a handle. I like my sticks to be all one piece construction, no added on handles for weak spots.

Try looking along low ground by streams for hormbeam. Also, don't remove the bark, it's too thick and you have to remove too much material. Like Blackthorns that you see with the bark on, just polish the hornbeam bark with 0000 steel wool, and use whatever hue Minwax stain/seal you like. I like to just finish my sticks with clear non gloss spar Urathane for a natural look, but seals the stick. I also tend to leave the little nubs from branches on to give it a spiky look.

Hope this helped.

Carl.
 
For me a cane needs to work as a cane first then as a fighting tool, I am not carrying around a full 1" diameter cane. I want some thing light and easy to carry and use as a cane, then the strength of the cane will be the common factor.
 
Carl Levitians "light" hornbeam cane weighs 14 ounces. That is not really all that light. I recommend a minimum of a solid pound which is only two ounces heavier. My "heavy" Osage stick weighs in at 20 ounces (about as much as a typical axe handle) yet is only 1 1/4 inches in diameter and looks ordinary enough. While I had the scales out I weighed a "real" walking cane that belonged to my father. He bout it at a drug store and it weighed in at a scant 11 ounces.

You presume a lot Carl, Never did I suggest "Caving in somebody's brain bucket". In fact I taught a class on the offensive use of a stick just last Thursday and emphatically warned my students to focus on the limbs as targets and to stay off the head and neck.

The axe handle vs. fencing foil across the back is a physics demonstration, not a recommended technique. The broad of the back is not necessarily a good target with any weight of stick, but I have done it to prove to a student that he needed a heavier stick than a slender piece of rattan.
 
My CaneMaster Canes are made of Oak and Hickory and are 1" in thickness. The training is heavy into "Pokes" and few of the blows are actually struck by swinging the cane. Just picture a poke to the eye, throat or gut, a smack across the shins or a blow to the elbow. A poke to the groin sends a happy message, too! They say "If the opponent grabs the cane.....then give it to him!" (poke).

The advanced training includes using the crook of the cane in over the shoulder throws, snagging a leg and tossing the opponent and dandy things like hooking the crook on the jaw or eye socket and .....well you know. I use a 1" crutch tip on each cane as I actually use the cane at times for walking. When the tip is removed......the festivities begin. The canes are just plain brutal!

I have my CHL but there are places where a pistol is not permitted. Carrying an axe handle may raise eyebrows but no one bothers an old coot with a cane.

Flash
 
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Interesting question with no right answer. Too many variables involved -- length, weight, thickness, material used. It all comes down to what the user is most effective with.

Here's a picture of some sticks I had lying around the house.

sticksy.jpg


They all handle differently, and while I have my favorites they all get used. My wife prefers the lighter ones. I use the longer, heavier ones to help with strength, speed, and stamina. IMO it's a good idea to have a selection, and it's not like sticks are all that expensive to begin with.
 
What about an aluminum (works well for little league bats) or titanium? Neither will break on impact and both are extremely lightweight. You could have it shaped anyway you desired it. Perhaps a slight taper to make thrusting more effective.
 
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