Capital Punishment?

[twoblink]

As gun owners, I know we are especially tough on gun related crimes. We are the ones who tend to "Throw to book at" the criminals for instance, who do a drive-by or rob a 7-11..

Without making this officially into a capital punishment debate, (and enticing people to get flame throwers out and mods to lock the thread...) I just wanted to get a sense how THR leans as far as capital punishment.

Currently, there is capital punishment for importing drugs into Taiwan, and murder... But there isn't for rape.. and after what happened two days ago, a lot of people are crying for Capital Punishment in this fairly strange (and sad) story.

A female college professor was having an affair with her dentist. When the dentist found out she was married, he wanted to cut the relationship off. She didn't want to, and so she offered her 9 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER (yes, 9!!!) as a sex slave for him. The lied to the little girl, said they were going to "make believe they were getting married", had a little fake wedding in a hotel room, after which, the dentist "bedded" the little 9 year old girl. For some horrid and unexplicable reason, the mother decides to get all this on video...

The public here is calling for heads to rolls (literally) as they would like to send a message that bedding 9 year olds and giving your 9 year old daughter as a sex slave to your affair-laced lover is not ok...

The story makes me sick to my stomach.. In this case, I can't say I'm for chopping the guy's head off for his actions; life in jail until he rots, that's fine with me, and the mother too... But let's just say, if they get their heads lopped off, I'm not gonna lose sleep over it...

 

[fjolnirsson]

Some of my friends call me extremist, or radical. But for some crimes, some betrayals, death is not enough. For these crimes, I suggest boiling in oil. Or burning at the stake. Drawing and quartering is good.
Just my two cents.

 

[J Jones]

You won't get any argument from me - mom and her lover should go to the gallows or chopping block, however they do things in Taiwan.

 

[thefitzvh]

In the military, there's a provision on the books for rape being punishable by death...

I've always thought that was a good idea.

Rape, murder, treason... death by single rifle round to the gut, followed by isolation in a room until you bleed to death.


James

 

[Black Majik]

Oh wow.... that is pretty unbelievable!

In my opinion they should send the guy over here to the american prisons. The inmates would have a field day with any rapists or child molsters. Since this guy took it leagues further, he'd probably get a hourly beating and succumbed to sexual favors/punishment by all the inmates.

That should teach him how horribly ????ed up he is.

.... absolutely astonishing....

 

[twoblink]

Here in Taiwan,

I think officially, you are "free to go" after the single bullet from a marksman with an M14 and a single .308 bullet to the back of the head. I don't recall the distance, I think 10 yards.. (Now that I think about, I'd probably be more than happy to pay for the bullet)...

A lot of mothers are calling for puttin' the dentist's (you know what) into the blender, put it on puree for a minute, and making him drink it... The dentist tried to give the "I didn't rape her, I had consent from her mother, and anyways, we were married.."

As far as the mother.. I think she can no longer be address as the mother. I will refer to her as the pimp.. Pimpin' out your daughter is not the definition of a mother... She should be put into a prison cell with a cold granite floor and no blanket.. (For those of you not well versed in torture methods of asia... Granite is difficult to heat, and thus, if you sleep on cold granite for prolong periods of time, because of the temperature difference between your body and the stone, condensation forms in your lungs, and causes pnemonia and other assorted bacteria to grow in your lungs until you are coughing up green flem non-stop to the point your throat starts to bleed as does your eyes, nose, ears, and mouth.. It takes about 2 years for you to die...)

Sick sick story..

 

[NukemJim]

Personally I do not like the death penalty.

However I am for it in 2(two) circumstances. One is purely emotional the other is logical.

1) Child abuse. This includes the first offense. Those who are put on trial and found "Not Guilty" get a mandatory front row seat for the next exection of a child abuser. No exceptions.

2) The killing of a public servant in the line of duty i.e. Police, EMT, Fireman, a witness for a trial, etc. Please not politicians are specificly EXCLUDED from being classed as a public servant unless they are performing another function.

NukemJim

 

[Stand_Watie]

I would like to see certain types of rape, kidnapping, child abuse, molestation get the same punishment as murder.

I live in a capital punishment state and am perfectly comfortable with it, morally - and I have lot's of good Christian friends who are against it as well, and I don't think less of them, although they haven't convinced me that Christianity rejects it.

Pragmatically speaking, I would trade it in a minute for a mandatory life without parole for most murders and many varieties of the crimes listed above, if that were the majority opinion of the people of my state. Locking up all (or most murderers) forever would do more good than killing 1 out of 10 and letting the other 9 out in 25 to 40 years.

The chief value that capital punishment has, in my view, is a hedge against the 'love em' and hug em' and let em' out of prison early' brigade. If these do-gooders didn't have capital punishment to agitate against, they'd be spending all that effort trying to get murderers prison sentences reduced.

 

[Nightfa11]

I live in a capital punishment state and am perfectly comfortable with it, morally - and I have lot's of good Christian friends who are against it as well, and I don't think less of them, although they haven't convinced me that Christianity rejects it.

As a Christian myself, I don't reject capital punishment, nor do I see it as anti-Christian. Render unto Caesar and all that. It's not something I particularly get agitated about either way. I don't mind paying to have someone locked up for the rest of their lives. I figure it's part of the cost of society. At the same time, I don't mind paying for capital punishment (appeals, etc) either.

As far as what happens in this particular case. I think prison for both is the best solution. Let them rot there (how nice are Taiwan's prisons, anyway). It's all a zero sum game after all.

 

[Leatherneck]

One type of crime for which I comfortably advocate the death penalty is deviant assault against helpless people--children, handicapped people and so forth. Another is multiple homicides over a period of time, e.g., the MD/VA "snipers." IMO, in the case of strongarm rape, the victim should get to choose the penalty from the whole spectrum of punishments.

TC
TFL Survivor

 

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

Hang 'em High.
Kill them and Let God sort them out.

Be very careful. The next consensual sex you have may be a rape by someone elses standard. With kids, I have no problem offing the ba$****, and the mother too.

 

[dischord]

Emotionally, I support the death penalty.

Rationally, I have big problems with the mistakes that have been uncovered. No matter how much you minimize the number of mistakes, we're talking about the ultimate in government power, and we citizens ought to demand something closer to perfection.

 

[Sean Smith]

My main objection to the death penalty is the inefficiency of the government in implementing it. It seems like you either accept a too-high rate of innocent people getting put to death, or you allow for all sorts of appeals and elaborate legal protections to prevent erroneous executions, at which point it is more expensive to put them to death than it is to just put them in jail for life.

Having said all that, the criminals in question definitely deserve death by torture. Making your own kid a sex slave?

 

[Leatherneck]

Making your own kid a sex slave?

Or ANY kid.

TC
TFL Survivor

 

[jsalcedo]

I believe in the death penalty when there is irrefutable evidence like the
videotape in the case mentioned.

When a felon drug addict is a star witness in a murder trial maybe there should be some questions raised.

 

[Jim March]

I'm with Dischord.

To clarify: right now under US court procedures, we have a HUGE problem with "snitch testimony"...people getting lesser or eliminated sentences for testifying against somebody else. It's a way for prosecutors to legally purchase testimony - a small number of judges are starting to come around on this point but are getting stomped by higher courts.

Until that gets fixed, I'm in favor of halting the death penalty completely. It's the number one cause of wrongful convictions.

The OTHER big source of wrongful convictions involves lying to suspects to get confessions. While I can't see ending that process, there must be a hard and fast rule that when this happens, THERE MUST BE OTHER EVIDENCE netted as a result of the investigation, otherwise the confession is tossed. Sorry, there's no other practical choice. What this means is, if some weak-willed moron gets grilled for eight hours on where/why/how he killed somebody (the cops claim there's a witness) and he finally "cracks", then the next question is "where's the body" or SOME other physical evidence (weapon location, crime scene location, etc.) otherwise the confession never happened.

This is another prerequisite to restarting the death penalty.

In addition, there needs to be more serious criminal penalties for prosecutorial/police misconduct leading to convictions. I'm not as firm on this point as I am snitch testimony, but I can see grounds for freezing the death penalty until this issue is also repaired.

(I also have concerns about jury tampering ("Voir Dure" I think it's spelled?) but would want more personal research in that area first if the decision is up to me .)

 

[Bruce H]

Dentist and mother should not be consuming oxygen. Very public execution.

 

[Beav]

I am for the death penalty but for the people that I believe qualify (serial killers, mass murders) its much too easy a way out.

 

[twoblink]

I think he-said/she-said rape is one thing; 9 year old (and all on video tape too!!) is a totally different story...

I don't think in any prison in any part of the world, child molesters and child rapists last very long in prison...

In case the dentist and/or his family is reading this.. I hope he rots.

 

[Joe Demko]

I don't have enough faith in the perfection of government to trust them with capital punishment. Some people certainly deserve to die, but I'm not at all comfortable about the decision being placed in the hands of some politicians and 12 people who weren't smart enough to get out of jury duty.

Couple digressions:
1. Judging by the tone of at least one post here, some of our members seem to consider sexual assault by other inmates to be a part of the punitive process. Does it make you uncomfortable _at all_ to essentially be cheering for a rapist?

2. Some of the more baroque methods of death by torture proposed here are interesting. You are aware, are you not, that such methods are commonly used by people we despise as "savages" and are currently fighting a war against?

Don't become that which you hate. Besides which, the competition for who can come up with the most over-the-top method for torturing a sex offender to deat inevitably gets threads like this locked. Rightly so.

 

[geekWithA.45]

In general, I'm not in favor of capital punishment.

As a matter of principle, I'm usually not in favor of killing except in immediate defense of life, liberty and property, and an incarcerated person is no longer a threat to any of the above.

My biggest reservations center around human imperfections that muddy up the process. Despite the most elaborate safeguards and best efforts of conscientious people, it still goes wrong, and people for whom a reasonable degree of doubt concerning thier guilt are executed. It doesn't happen a whole lot, but it happens enough, and once you pull the switch, it's too late to say "Oops, sorry. I guess we shoulda waited for the DNA to come back/taken a closer look at the DA's files for with held evidence/etc/etc/etc".

This is an outgrowth of the notion that it's better to risk freeing the guilty than punishing the innocent.

Furthermore, humans, even bad ones, can come around eventually. Lopping off their heads prevents forever any possibility of any sort of redemption. Sincere and genuine repentance and reformation can and does happen. Sure, it's rare, but I'm loathe to close the door on a miracle.

That being said, I'm not absolutely against it.

I reserve the possibility of the death penalty for the most egregious monsters, whose crimes are of a horrific magnitude, and plain for all to see.

There are some monsters that simply need to be done away with, and I leave wiggle room for it.

In fact, if you're that much of a monster so profoundly needful of being done away with, I can be downright bloodthirsty:

I've always theoretically been in favor of the "Hall of Heads" wing at the Smithsonian, a righteous place to display the preserved heads of Stalin, Mao, Hitler Pol Pot, Osama, Saddam, and all the future tyrant/dictator wannabes on pikes.

Alternately, since JDAMs seem to be favored for this purpose these days, an ornate shelf for the mason jar of gelatinous remains scraped from the crater will do just as nicely.

Can you imagine how things might have been different in Iraq if, with great publicity, carpenters began construction of a new alcove for the "Butcher of Baghdad"?

 

[Chuck Jennings]

I am completely comfortable with death as a punishment for the most heinous of crimes.
However, the current administration of capital punishment is severely flawed. The taking of life by a government is the ultimate denial of rights, and therefore should only decided with the most incontrovertible evidence. I however, do believe that those found guilty under a less stringent test should be sentenced to hard labor in a severe environment in the middle of a huge tract of federal land.

 

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

I think we need to add one more aspect to this discussion: deterrence.

Do you think the deterrent effect of the death penalty works? Hint: It only works if you finish the sentence in a reasonable amount of time.

 

[J Jones]

It's pretty hard to argue that the sentence wouldn't be just when the crime was recorded on video.

 

[MicroBalrog]

Do you think the deterrent effect of the death penalty works?

Apparently, Stalin once ordered the death penalty to be introduced for rape.

It was repealed after it was noticed that rapists (who would be executed if they got caught) have taken up killing the "witness".