Carried by 6, but job consequences - a case

[George P]

Why would we accept a business restricting such a fundamental right as the right to self defense?

Why would you be so presumptive that you can dictate how someone wants to run THEIR business? The door that lets you in also lets you leave.

 

[taliv]

Because people are more important than property. So right of self defense of persons trumps property rights

 

[commygun]

Really, how hard is it to keep your mouth shut? It’s a basic adult skill.
Be a gun guy with other gun guys (and gals). You’ll figure out who they are soon enough, though I admit I’ve sometimes been surprised to discover Joe or Jane was a gun person. IT, in particular, seems to be a hotbed of unforeseen gun geeks.

 

[The Last Outlaw]

Because people are more important than property. So right of self defense of persons trumps property rights

That may be so in a moral sense, but the law says differently. Not saying I agree with the law, but it is what it is.

 

[taliv]

Sure. I’m saying what the law should be. Not what it is. But as I mentioned it’s changing a bit. And my belief is it’s schizophrenic in favor of some rights being protected and others not

 

[GEM]

Why would you be so presumptive that you can dictate how someone wants to run THEIR business? The door that lets you in also lets you leave.

Are you kidding, businesses are told how to run their enterprises all the time? We have laws to protect people from businesses that are predatory, will abuse workers, produce unsafe products, discriminate on the protected classes, etc.

Let's go back to the good old days of child labor and red lead in your cocao powder for freedom!

 

[George P]

Not to a Libertarian or anyone else who prefers freedom, especially with one's personal property

 

[George P]

Are you kidding, businesses are told how to run their enterprises all the time? We have laws to protect people from businesses that are predatory, will abuse workers, produce unsafe products, discriminate on the protected classes, etc.

Let's go back to the good old days of child labor and red lead in your cocao powder for freedom!

How about we go back to common sense and allow folks to choose where they want to live, work, and recreate without government interference? What a concept - called FREEDOM - sorry, this BS gets my blood boiling

 

[taliv]

Precisely because common sense isn’t. I mean why have any laws at all, if we have common sense

 

[GEM]

Sure, I want to to live in the Purge. That would be fun recreation. Let's have folks taking a poop in the river! Your blood can boil but it cooked your brain if you don't understand a modicum of civilization.

If you open a business to the public, it becomes more than your personal property. Don't you expect the state to come put your business out when it is on fire?

 

[George P]

Precisely because common sense isn’t. I mean why have any laws at all, if we have common sense

We might need a few, but we sure as hell do not need what we have now - 30,000+ gun laws, how many tens of thousands of IRS laws, how many hundreds of thousands of Federal regs?
Stop being disengenuous
Geezus you two....and Mods to boot.............really?
What a bunch of strawman BS...........come on

 

[WrongHanded]

How about we go back to common sense and allow folks to choose where they want to live, work, and recreate without government interference? What a concept - called FREEDOM - sorry, this BS gets my blood boiling

So how would you feel if social pressure from a substantial portion of the population (which we know is possible), caused almost all businesses to prohibit firearms in their establishments or anywhere on their property? So basically everywhere but gun stores and a few other select places said "No Guns On Our Property". You'd have to park on the street rather than their parking lot (because it's their private property), and walk in to every establishment unarmed.

Is that what you'd prefer?

 

[GEM]

The solution, obviously, is to defund the police.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

Really, how hard is it to keep your mouth shut? It’s a basic adult skill.

I watched the video a couple weeks ago so I might not recall all the details. But IIRC he had worked there a long time and was pretty good buddies with some of his coworkers. He mentioned they were gun guys too and I was thinking maybe they shot together? It can be difficult putting up an airtight firewall of silence if you see your coworkers socially and go shooting with them.

 

[taliv]

We might need a few, but we sure as hell do not need what we have now - 30,000+ gun laws, how many tens of thousands of IRS laws, how many hundreds of thousands of Federal regs?
Stop being disengenuous
Geezus you two....and Mods to boot.............really?
What a bunch of strawman BS...........come on

of course more than 29000 of those 30000 gun laws should be repealed. why would you think that just because i support gun rights over property rights that i would want 30000 useless gun laws?

but the number of gun laws isn't really relevant to the discussion. why do you think the "right" of a corporation to restrict guns supersedes my right to self defense?

So how would you feel if social pressure from a substantial portion of the population (which we know is possible), caused almost all businesses to prohibit firearms in their establishments or anywhere on their property? So basically everywhere but gun stores and a few other select places said "No Guns On Our Property". You'd have to park on the street rather than their parking lot (because it's their private property), and walk in to every establishment unarmed.

we're pretty much there already. even where i worked in texas and michigan the past few years forbid me to carry in the office

 

[trackskippy]

The solution, obviously, is to defund the police.

No, the solution is to do what you want, and keep your mouth shut.

No one needs to know you have your gun along, no one will likely ever know, and hopefully, you never need to use it.

And should that happen, if youre lucky, you survive, youll likely get fired, and the company still makes out, because your wife hasnt sued them into bankruptcy, for not making sure you were protected since they took on that liability, when they mandated the no gun policy.

 

[GEM]

We have discussed at length in the past that suits for not letting you carry and protect yourself are a no good due to various established precedents in similar but not gun cases. Frank would know them.

 

[LNK]

While I did not watch the video, I will say this. Some employers have a no guns policy in the handbook for liability reasons. They want to absolutely distance themselves from you should you ever need to use a firearm to protect yourself. They want to be able to say, we do not allow this and this person did this on their own.

Some of us work in fields that take us to many places. We can turn around and leave any job that seems like a bad place to be. Sometimes things happen in areas that seem like good places. At the end of the day, you are responsible for your actions. The company will not support you, pay any legal expenses, etc cetera. You are on your own. Do what you need to do and do your best.

 

[theotherwaldo]

In the last half century I have left, lost, been fired from, been laid off from, quit, walked away from, etc., more jobs and occupations than I can easily recall.
If my current occupation became too dangerous, too restrictive or too onerous then I'd walk away from this one as well.
It's my job, not my life.

 

[Howland937]

So how would you feel if social pressure from a substantial portion of the population (which we know is possible), caused almost all businesses to prohibit firearms in their establishments or anywhere on their property? So basically everywhere but gun stores and a few other select places said "No Guns On Our Property". You'd have to park on the street rather than their parking lot (because it's their private property), and walk in to every establishment unarmed.

Is that what you'd prefer?

A really close approximation of that is what has happened with tobacco products. Most states have banned smoking indoors at any public business. In Ohio it was on the ballot, and became law based on the voters' preference. Lots of places have "tobacco-free campus" signs, especially hospitals and large factories. State operated prisons are tobacco free too. Zoos and amusement parks no longer have designated smoking areas on their property. Why? Because of the risks to other people's health.

How is it similar to restricting possession of firearms? Look at what New York's governor just did. Some people actually view guns as a public health issue and view the people in possession of guns as a risk to everyone around them. Unreasonable, yes. Unrealistic? Not if enough people buy it.

 

[George P]

So how would you feel if social pressure from a substantial portion of the population (which we know is possible), caused almost all businesses to prohibit firearms in their establishments or anywhere on their property? So basically everywhere but gun stores and a few other select places said "No Guns On Our Property". You'd have to park on the street rather than their parking lot (because it's their private property), and walk in to every establishment unarmed.

Is that what you'd prefer?

Not what I would prefer; HOWEVER, it is what I would adhere to ; not MY place..........if it was and I said no guns, then that is what i is

 

[WrongHanded]

Not what I would prefer; HOWEVER, it is what I would adhere to ; not MY place..........if it was and I said no guns, then that is what i is

Sounds like a slippery slope to a place where you can't take your gun off your own property.

 

[DeepSouth]

Interesting video, definitely make you think but honestly the guy seems so emotionally driven that if he had got shot and disabled at work when he wasn’t carrying I think he’d have made the exact opposite video.
He would still think himself an idiot for the exact opposite decision, he would be talking about how irresponsible he was, exact same just the complete opposite, lol.

It just makes it hard to take him seriously, at least that’s how he comes across to me.


Statements like that being the thing he is most ashamed of in life and a year of unemployment being the worst year of his life just come across as likely exaggerated. If not I sincerely hope he never has any real trials or failures.


And fwiw, my personal decision based on shear probability’s of getting fired vs being involved in a work place shooting, lead me leaving my gun behind, I’m generally armed with a Spyder CO and a Leather-man.

Once upon a time, I worked for a HVAC company that sent us into some pretty bad neighborhoods. After a few uncomfortable incidents I told my boss, (company owner) either he could let me carry on the job or I would start looking for another one, he agreed to let me carry. Looking back I was just young, probably a little scared and didn’t really know how the read people and deescalate, I probably didn’t really need a weapon as much as I thought I did, but it sure made me feel safer. Like I said, young and dumb, was most of my trouble.

 

[George P]

Sounds like a slippery slope to a place where you can't take your gun off your own property.

No one said that; this has to deal with an employee violating company policy which he agreed to follow in return for a job. If I am that employee, I leave the gun at home or in my vehicle (lawful in Florida with a few exceptions) If I am the employer and have that policy, I expect it to be followed or the employee gets reprimanded/fired.

 

[WrongHanded]

No one said that; this has to deal with an employee violating company policy which he agreed to follow in return for a job. If I am that employee, I leave the gun at home or in my vehicle (lawful in Florida with a few exceptions) If I am the employer and have that policy, I expect it to be followed or the employee gets reprimanded/fired.

Okay, that's fair. You're willing to follow the rules and willingly disarm yourself in a gun-free zone. And expect everyone to do the same in your own private gun-free zone. If that's how you feel, it's how you feel.

It does however sound totally backwards for someone I take to be very pro freedom, pro liberty, and pro individual rights. I know I'm far more liberal than you are, and even I think it's a terrible idea to strip people of their most effective means to exercise their most basic human right to self defense.