Carry At Work?

[RetiredUSNChief]

I think people are forgetting a few things here...or possibly outright ignoring them:

The bottom line is that PRIVATE businesses can make and enforce their own policies as they see fit, within the boundaries established by the applicable statutes they are operating in.

This is very similar to YOU being able to tell anybody you choose that they may NOT bring a firearm on your property or in your home. It's YOUR property and YOUR home and therefore YOUR rules which must be followed as a property owning private citizen.

If you owned a business, you are empowered to enact whatever policies you wish, also within the boundaries established by the applicable statutes. If you wish to allow firearms, then you may. If not, then that is also the rule because it's YOUR private business.

Anybody you hire is duty and honor bound to agree to your terms of employment if they wish to work for you. To willfully disregard those agreed upon terms of employment afterwards says something about their character.

If people don't like working where firearms are prohibited by company policy, they can either work somewhere else, address the issue through proper channels and maybe affect a change in company policy, or bring their weapon in violation of company policy and maybe local statues, which may mean loss of employment AND, if pursued as a violation of the law, loss of their right to carry their weapon and maybe a criminal conviction which would preclude their future right to own firearms at all.

I understand the sentiment of people who say such things as "Better to be alive and fired than dead and hired." However, what good does this do you if you end up with a criminal conviction which REMOVES your right to own a firearm? This does not bode well for your future ability to own and carry a firearm and will severely limit your options on self defense.


As such, I wish people here would properly phrase their answers within the context of their own applicable laws. Simply saying something to the effect of "screw my boss, I'm going to carry anyway" is NOT the right answer and MAY be advocating an illegal act, depending on the jurisdiction they are in. It is most definately NOT "the high road", as someone pointed out. Make it clear where it's a matter of POLICY that you're working against as opposed to a matter of LAW.


I'm sure there will be a few who will post something like "Well, if I had my own business I'd allow people to carry, so there!" Please note that I've already recognized that as your right in this very post.


People DO bring up some very important questions and issues with regards to this topic, however. Being able to defend oneself IS important and places which preclude firearms must be factored into that. This includes balancing employment in along with that. It also includes concerns about being able to legally carry to and from work, if one is not able to actually carry on their person while at work. And we all make decisions about where we will go and what places will get our money based upon such things as whether or not we are allowed to carry our concealed weapon.

 

[Spike_akers]

Cheif, what would your opinion be for those who chose to defy policy, and possibly law, if there was a significant reason to doubt ones safety? such as, working the late shift in a gas station that has been robbed several times before, or people were frequently mugged/assaulted around or possibly in, the work area? i dont disagree with you at all, but my question is what about a reasonable fear that would make you feel the need to carry even at work?? or, as for someone i know personally, a fear of the employer himself that makes you have enough doubt in your safety that you would carry? but you have no option to abruptly stop working there?

as for those who just say, i'm going to carry because no one can really stop me and so on, who dont have a reasonable reason to feel the need to risk job, and possibly legal situations, it seems as though it has little to do with safety, and more to do with statement. i understand carrying on the way to and from work, there is nothing wrong with leaving it in your car. i feel like there are alot of people here who are just carrying because they feel they can, and so they will. however i can see the point in the first example, or someone who specifically has a reason to doubt safety while on employer property.. and i have to say im torn on that fact... is it wrong when there is a legitimate reason to doubt safety? i understand the law, and that it needs to be followed. but i also feel like there have been several cases where people have been legislated out of protection, and lost people dear to them because of it. its a double edged sword i guess...

 

[mljdeckard]

I tell my carry students, if you are facing a significant threat of violence, the correct answer is not to put on a gun and go in anyway. The correct answer is to NOT GO THERE AT ALL.

 

[Sav .250]

Would you carry at work; even if your employer doesn't allow it?

Win the battle ...lose the war. There is no point to this....Just,plain....Stupid!

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Cheif, what would your opinion be for those who chose to defy policy, and possibly law, if there was a significant reason to doubt ones safety?

A good question, Spike. This, as I said in my closing paragraph in my last post, an important topic for some.

I can't answer every such similar question that people may bring up except to say that there are many options...including violating company policy or the law. For the extreme scenario you cite, I would say that whatever else such a person may consider doing, perhaps he should seriously consider getting another job.

A phrase comes up among many who carry concealed: "Don't do stupid things in stupid places with stupid people at stupid times." This applies even with this employment scenario: if a person chronically and seriously fears for his safety as a matter of course solely based on the details of his employment, then this is a place he should not be at in the first place because it's STUPID.

One's firearm is NOT one's only resource, either. It's simply the resourse of last resort, to be used when all lesser means have failed or cannot reasonably be employed.


As I said earlier...the decision to carry, whatever the circumstances, is a personal one, all the risks of which must be weighed.

as for those who just say, i'm going to carry because no one can really stop me and so on, who dont have a reasonable reason to feel the need to risk job, and possibly legal situations, it seems as though it has little to do with safety, and more to do with statement.

I agree. As law abiding citizens, we have both explicit and implicit duties and responsibilities with respect to legally carrying a firearm. Choosing to carry against a policy and/or a law must be weighed very carefully against the consequences. One could easily envision the consequences of "making a statement" leading to loss of employment, a criminal conviction, or loss of life.

Part of the implicit duties and responsibilities is advocating responsible and LEGAL carry. It's also advocating alternative solutions to situations which might lead to altercations or legal problems.


Making a statement against a law with respect to firearms must be very carefully considered and orchestrated, most especially with respect to actually BREAKING them in the process. This website does not advocate the breaking of laws; and from what I've seen of the moderators here, they do a darn good job of enforcing that, which is one of the things that I love about it.

Want to make such a statement? Wear your empty holster to work.

 

[simonstough]

when i was a tattoo apprentice the policy was "you will own and carry a gun." when i was a chef it was quite different, the owner overheard me mention having a new pistol to one of the other chefs, so he implemented a new policy for me, and i carried anyway. now i build robots, my bosses have both expressed that they dont care if we carry but since i weld daily and do alot of work in a mill i do not carry, fire/hot metal and loaded weapons makes me nervous.

 

[thorazine]

Because when you accept a job, you agree to abide by all company policies. If their policies are unacceptable, you don't have to work there.

Who really reads the employee hand book anyway? =D

I can tolerate bad policies for a paycheck...

I just have to make sure I do a super special job at concealing my firearm. *

On the other side of the coin if I have my boss over for dinner and if he or she is carrying a concealed firearm in my house and chooses not to inform me... good for him or her!





* In which it is a matter of breaking an employer based policy potentially resulting in termination and not any state or local laws where I reside.

 

[Blackstone]

Keep it well concealed so that for all intents and purposes, you aren't carrying. Unless you need to use it, then you'll be glad you did and it would outweigh any potential penalties.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Wow, these people who are advocating quitting your job must not have a clue about the job market right now.

I do not carry at work, not because of company policy, but because it is against the law, as I am in a couple of prohibited places. If it was simply company policy, I would likely ignore it.

 

[Backpacker33]

We have a friend whose former spouse threatened to kill her. She had a 3-yr injunction against him which expired 10 years ago. He moved out of state but still harasses her at every opportunity, including through his dirt bag friends.
Her office is on the 15th floor of a BIG office bldg right in the center of Milwaukee, a city that is NOT friendly to self defense. At least one of the floors houses a federal agency, but none of the others do. The entire parking garage and building are signed for no carry. She has discussed it with her employer who just says "No." She has elected not to take the gun out of her car, even though there is no place to run in the garage except dead. Her office is open to the public so the dirt bag could enter at any time and get her, but she fears losing her job more than her life. I do business with her employer, but wouldn't if she didn't work there. Tough choice for her.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Tough choice for her.

A tough choice, indeed.

Would that people like that guy didn't exist in the first place. Beats me how somebody could carry such hatred for so long. Life's too short to fill it up with such hate and spite, in my opinion.

I pray nothing ever happens, and that if it does she turns out safe because of the precautions she has taken.

 

[skoro]

Probably just me...

Would you carry at work; even if your employer doesn't allow it?

In that situation, I'd rather keep my job than keep a gun in my pocket.

 

[BBQLS1]

There are lot of interesting comments but the bottom line remains. Employers or the person whose premises you are choosing to enter wins. There are places that I go where i know i cant carry and i respect that. Like when I go to meet my President, i cannot carry. If i do to make a point of my services and value for value exchange- I will end up in jail for sure.

The idea is to respect the job contract that you sign, because it is willful accent to the stated policies and adhering to such shows character especially even when you in personal capacity might not agree to them.

I alaways thought (may be just a romanticism) that people who are gun emthusiast are also straight forward disciplined folks. Those who respect and honor committment. Its a novel thought, and not accurate by any means, but certainly the one I would like to promote, rather then what antis promote about guns and people who like guns.

Well, in general gun enthusiasts are straight forward disciplined folks. It's just the complicated world we live in. Some feel that their obligation is to provide for their family and make sure they can continue to do so. The company/people who do not allow those to carry, but require them to traverse uncertain territory (like a dark parking garage) certainly aren't looking out for said person's obligations.

 

[Kynative]

I turn wrenches in a mom and pop shop in a town of 20k people. Its a small place. Every morning when I put on the blue I stow my pistol and automatic knife(love Kentucky law) in my box and trade them for whatever knife is currently honed to a razors edge. It's known I carry. So do others there. I've never had a job where this was a question. Respect to you urban guys taking responsibility and to answer the question, yeah, I would, never work in a place with such an (enforced) policy

 

[colorado_handgunner]

Firearms are banned at my job.
I compromise and carry a Kimber Pepper Blaster.

***Just because you can't carry a firearm does not mean you have to be defenseless. ***

 

[Xiphoticness]

As Colorado says, just because you don't have a gun doesn't mean you have to be defenseless. Working where I do I am not allowed, and honestly couldn't feasibly anyway, to carry concealed on the clock. I just rely on paying attention to everyone who comes in, which is also in my job description anyway since we are supposed to greet every customer, and if I feel uncomfortable about someone I always keep a pair of those big scissors in my apron pocket. It may not be much but unless they have a gun I'm pretty sure I could bring them down fast. And the scissors belong to the company, so they can't fire me for having them on my person. And I have recently started carrying a nice cane when walking between my car and the building as well. The way I see it strategy is preparing yourself to do what you can with the tools that are available to you. If I could OC on the clock that would make it easier, but as I cannot I simply have to be creative and find other solutions to the same problem. Carrying a gun is not an end, it is a means to the end of protecting yourself and others.

 

[Jackal]

I carry a gun at work, but I'm a logger. Out in the remote areas I work in, I often have to walk long distances in the dark (early morning). These are the preferred roaming times of Cougar and black bears. I have yet to have to shoot one, but only a fool would be unarmed.

 

[Sav .250]

You can bet your last dollar,if you "carry" in a restricted area and get caught.............your out of there!

Don`t get the point in pushing the envelope. Win the battle .......lose the war. Dumb!

 

[Rexster]

I wear a badge, so carrying at work is required. I may well retire quite soon, and if I work a subsequent job with a gun-free zone policy, I will carry where legal, regardless of company rules. Of course, I will have my police pension to continue paying my bills, so I would have less to lose.

Of course, I would MUCH rather carry with my employer's blessing, or, second-best, in a benignly-permissive environment, and would apply for post-retirement jobs with that in mind.

 

[thorazine]

Carrying concealed against company policy is the ultimate am I printing test.

Some are just not up for the challenge. =D

 

[kgpcr]

if you go against policy knowingly then you have coming what happens. No one made you take the job and by doing so agreed to their rules. Thats the way it is.

 

[EddieG54]

If you choose to ignore policy at your job and carry anyway would you also ignore laws against carrying in a bank, courthouse or school? Just asking?

 

[thorazine]

if you go against policy knowingly then you have coming what happens.

Indeed.

If somehow I would get discovered and as a result my employment is terminated I would accept that outcome -- I concealed poorly and shame on me.

Hand me a box and I'll clean out my desk.

If I have to use my firearm in a self defense situation and I am fired as an outcome... I was in danger of serious bodily harm and or death so I would accept that outcome as well.

Living > Paycheck.

If you choose to ignore policy at your job and carry anyway would you also ignore laws against carrying in a bank, courthouse or school? Just asking?

Very state specific.

If I were employed at a bank yes I would carry concealed against company policy because it would not violate any state law(s).

If I were however employed at a courthouse or a school I would not carry concealed against policy because it would violate state law(s).

Nor would I even ask for permission because I just assume my request will get declined and I would rather not flag myself as a firearm owner to my superiors.

 

[Kynative]

I generally avoid places where it is unlawful to carry like the plague. I carry in the bank at least once a week. I don't carry in places where the consequences if caught are severe, I almost never go to those places either.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

Living > Paycheck.

If it comes down to that, that is how it will be. You can find another job - eventually - but you can't come back to life.

Regarding carry in banks, there is no federal law against it. Some state laws might prohibit it. Otherwise, "gunbuster" signs are bank policy.