Carrying concealed.

[V4Vendetta]

I went to Hanes mall recently. I've been there in the past lots of times but this is the first time I saw a sign saying that you can't carry concealed weapons even with a permit unless your a cop.:banghead: I also noticed a similar sign at BB&T. Here's the funny thing. Everywhere I go, I carry a pocket knife. Nothing like a Gerber or other fighting knife just a little 3" knife. I guess that I'm just a crazy lunatic looking to slice someones guts out*

It made me think, what happens if you accidently carry concealed in a place that doesn't allow that?

I'm thinking of putting a sign up at my shop saying "Concealed Carry Welcome with permit. Please refrain from firing in the lobby unless it's to stop a bandit. Accuracy in lobby is MUCH appreciated." It's my store so I can do what I please without some boss saying "That's not PC".

*That's sarcasm.

 

[Zundfolge]

It made me think, what happens if you accidently carry concealed in a place that doesn't allow that?

Depends on your state laws.

Here in Colorado a sign that says "No Guns" carries no legal weight, in other states (Texas for example) you carry where there's a sign and you'll lose your permit.


Personaly I've never seen a "No Guns" sign around here, but if I did I would probably ignore it ... and maybe later fire of an angry but pointless letter to the business and never return until they took the sign down.

 

[Gun Geezer]

Not entirely accurate

Depends on your state laws.

Here in Colorado a sign that says "No Guns" carries no legal weight, in other states (Texas for example) you carry where there's a sign and you'll lose your permit.


Personaly I've never seen a "No Guns" sign around here, but if I did I would probably ignore it ... and maybe later fire of an angry but pointless letter to the business and never return until they took the sign down.

You're close, but in the Great State of Texas, the sign has to be the correct sign with the correct verbage, letters a certain size, etc. Just any old "no guns allowed" sign holds no weight in the law.

At the local mall my wife drags me to, all except one entrance has the proper sign. Guess which entrance we always use?

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

I've seen exactly one sign around here, and that was in Gart Sports, of all places. The sign asks you to please leave your firearm at the front counter.

I don't need anything they sell.

 

[Zundfolge]

You're close, but in the Great State of Texas, the sign has to be the correct sign with the correct verbage, letters a certain size, etc. Just any old "no guns allowed" sign holds no weight in the law.

True ... I just didn't feel it necessary to go into that much detail since the original poster wasn't in Texas.


But that is a good point, most states (North Carolina included) that have these stupid signs do have requirements for them (although the NC requirements seem vague to me).

source

§ 14‑415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun; scope of permit.

(a) Any person who has a concealed handgun permit may carry a concealed handgun unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law. The person shall carry the permit together with valid identification whenever the person is carrying a concealed handgun, shall disclose to any law enforcement officer that the person holds a valid permit and is carrying a concealed handgun when approached or addressed by the officer, and shall display both the permit and the proper identification upon the request of a law enforcement officer.

(b) The sheriff shall issue a permit to carry a concealed handgun to a person who qualifies for a permit under G.S. 14‑415.12. The permit shall be valid throughout the State for a period of five years from the date of issuance.

(c) A permit does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun in the areas prohibited by G.S. 14‑269.2, 14‑269.3, 14‑269.4, and 14‑277.2, in an area prohibited by rule adopted under G.S. 120‑32.1, in any area prohibited by 18 U.S.C. § 922 or any other federal law, in a law enforcement or correctional facility, in a building housing only State or federal offices, in an office of the State or federal government that is not located in a building exclusively occupied by the State or federal government, a financial institution, or on any other premises, except state‑owned rest areas or state‑owned rest stops along the highways, where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises. It shall be unlawful for a person, with or without a permit, to carry a concealed handgun while consuming alcohol or at any time while the person has remaining in his body any alcohol or in his blood a controlled substance previously consumed, but a person does not violate this condition if a controlled substance in his blood was lawfully obtained and taken in therapeutically appropriate amounts.

(d) A person who is issued a permit shall notify the sheriff who issued the permit of any change in the person's permanent address within 30 days after the change of address. If a permit is lost or destroyed, the person to whom the permit was issued shall notify the sheriff who issued the permit of the loss or destruction of the permit. A person may obtain a duplicate permit by submitting to the sheriff a notarized statement that the permit was lost or destroyed and paying the required duplicate permit fee. (1995, c. 398, s. 1; c. 507, s. 22.1(c); c. 509, s. 135.3(e); 1997, c. 238, s. 6; 2000‑140, s. 103; 2000‑191, s. 5.)

(emphasis added)

 

[wdlsguy]

At the local mall my wife drags me to, all except one entrance has the proper sign. Guess which entrance we always use?

I wouldn't shop there. They've made their anti-gun feelings perfectly clear.

 

[Zundfolge]

I wouldn't shop there. They've made their anti-gun feelings perfectly clear.

In general I can see your point, however the individual stores inside the mall don't have any say over what signage the mall management puts up.

 

[Srigs]

In Minnesota,

A place has to be posted properlly and you have to refuse to leave when asked. If you don't, you can get a ticket for $25. Owners of malls can't post because it would their tennants from carring which is by law allowed. So, I just ignor any mall signs!

 

[Czar]

I've seen exactly one sign around here, and that was in Gart Sports, of all places. The sign asks you to please leave your firearm at the front counter.

I don't need anything they sell.

I used to work at the firearms counter at the Gart's in Park Meadows (Highlands Ranch Area) and we had the same sign. It's meant for people bringing in their firearms to have scopes mounted / find the correct case / etc... We’d just get nervous when people would bring in a loaded gun, set it on our counter and tell us that they needed more bullets for this gun. Yes it happened, about 6-8 times a year, but it was unnerving as hell...

Often I had customers who had CCW's, they didn't check them at the front, and only one did I say anything to because his flashed while he was trying on a coat. I politely informed his handgun was exposed, but that I was probably the only one who saw. He tucked his shirt back in and life went on. Personally I didn't give a hoot... I have a CCW now and I've carried several times in Gart’s and I've found that most of the time they still don't give a ____ unless you're being stupid. As I've been told by several others with more CCW experience than me, there's a reason the first "C" is for "CONCEALED". You do that part right and the rest takes care of itself.

Bummer it seems that they're hit and miss all over... Of the 5 stores I've been to in the Denver area, only 2 do I go back to with any regularity... Generally the people behind the counter make the difference (too bad they're not on comission!)

Czar

 

[Taurus 66]

I went to Hanes mall recently.

Underwear Mall?

Are you ever going back to this mall? ..... because (let's say) a store inside has 10% off on your favorite Chinese built plastic/tin toaster. Is that really a reason for a man to tour the mall?? Please tell me you're there because someone else wanted you to go.

I've been there in the past lots of times but this is the first time I saw a sign saying that you can't carry concealed weapons even with a permit unless your a cop.

This message is sure to turn BGs away having them looking for easier targets, without having to face the dreaded sign. There's nothing worse for a villain than "The Sign".

Everywhere I go, I carry a pocket knife. Nothing like a Gerber or other fighting knife just a little 3" knife. I guess that I'm just a crazy lunatic looking to slice someones guts out

Your 3" blade used on the average American, who's generally 40-50 lbs overweight, with a cholesterol count of about 400 and FIVE, is just enough to remove his/her deepest skin tag or wart, and thats about it. Butter anyone? Don't expect to get paid for any on the spot surgery. You're no doctor afterall.

 

[chris in va]

In VA they have to ask you to leave. If you refuse, it's a misdemeanor trespass charge.

As I understand things.

 

[BigRobT]

To add to Srigs statement, MN has a "Permit to Carry", it really doesn't HAVE to be concealed.

 

[1911Tuner]

Mall

Taurus 66 asked:

>Underwear mall?<
*****************

Hanes Mall...Named for P.H. Hanes Knitting Co. Winston-Salem is the town that Hanes and R.J. Reynolds Tobacco pretty much built. Known by truckers everywhere as "The Camel City". Hanes is now a subsidiary of Sara Lee.

Hanes Mall is a nice place...in the daytime. When the sun goes down, it becomes the habitat of thugs and gangstas of all descriptions...and not all of'em are harmless kids just walkin' the walk. The parking lots are dangerous,
in spite of "Mall Security", which consists of a pair of meter maid scooters and unarmed "Guards" who have to cover the huge expanse of asphalt, and generally take 5 minutes to respond to the call and get started tryin' to find
the area of complaint.

In short...mall security is a joke, in spite of the fact that there are assaults, robberies, and even several rapes have taken place out there. It's gotten to the point that even during the daylight hours, reports of such foolishness has begun to trickle in. Of course, the public only gets word of a small percentage of the actual number of crimes being committed there. If all of it became known, the buying public would pretty much disappear before 5 P.M. Due to the fact that the signs announce to one and all that company policy offers up the general public as sacrificial lambs, I avoid the place whenever possible...and when I can't, I ignore the signs and do what my gut tells me to.

 

[beaucoup ammo]

In Texas

FYI, unless the signage below appears, verbatim, you may carry concealed with permit. A "No Handhuns Allowed" or other such sign means nada here in Texas.

Just an example of what Steve brought up.


"PURSUANT TO SECTION 30.06, PENAL CODE (TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF A LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN) A PERSON LICENSED UNDER SUBCHAPTER H, CHAPTER 411, GOVERNMENT CODE (CONCEALED HANDGUN LAW), MAY NOT ENTER THIS PROPERTY WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN."

Take Care

 

[outofbattery]

In NC,the law states that it only has to be "conspicuously noted" that concealed firearms are not permitted.If you find yourself arguing the point,you're probably going to end up convincing a judge or jury of your peers that the sign was not conspicuous.It's a misdemeanor if you're caught and a good way to lose your CCW permit.

Something about NC law that's interesting is that it's specifically noted that carrying a firearm off of one's premises during a state of emergency is illegal,meaning that arresting persons and taking their firearms as during Katrina is entirely legal.

I can't think of a mall in NC that didn't have a no weapons sign on all of the doors.Combine the number of stores that have the signs along with not being able to carry in banks or at public gatherings and there weren't enough places where it was legal to carry concealed vs being able to legally carry openly in my car for me to bother with an NC permit.

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

Czar,

That's nice to know. I guess that brings the posted places here (that I know about) back down to zero.

 

[HerrWolfe]

Guess NC will have to count me out on coming over to help in the event of hurricane, earthquake (when the big one hits) or anything else. Guess they are really bent out of shape about it too . Will need to re-read my state law but think I am OK.

Really a pity about the emergency no-carry thing. Tried to confirm but Packing.org is down.

When ones thinks about the shopping malls for real shopping [spending money] and being afraid to go there fearing the criminal element, maybe it is time the big retailers push back a little through commerce to force cleanup. But the bright side is that we will save on gas by not going to the malls; but that which we save by not buying at the malls, we would have to spend on the little gas we do use going elsewhere. :banghead:

 

[10 Ring Tao]

In MI signs hold no weight either. The worst that can happen if you're made is that you're asked to leave. Now, if you don't comply, then you can get slapped with criminal tresspass.

 

[rmw]

I heard that some MI Blockbuster stores have sighns . My local one does not . Anyone seen one ?

 

[MatthewVanitas]

Man, Columbus OH has signs _everywhere_

It seemed that every other business in Columbus had a "no guns" sign. We're not just talking bars and post offices here; every convenience store, fast food joints, the guitar store down the street, all had signs to the gist "Carrying a Concealed Weapon in this Establishment is Prohibited"

A good scattering of shops actually had a sign that had obviously been cut out of a newspaper. Presumably some paper saw fit to serve the public by printing a full page "No Guns Allowed" sign, with dotted line perforations so folks could cut out the sign and post it on their door.

It struck me as rather absurd. The CCW-licensed population of Ohio would be maybe 1%. It seems a bit odd to go out of your way to post a 1x2" sign, often on your glass front door, that only addresses 1% of the state's population, and a 1% that's just passed a criminal background check.



Texas has some really amusing signs: the local K-Mart had a sign that I had to read several times to understand. It basically said something like "Carrying a Concealed Weapon of a type other than that which you are licensed to carry is a violation of state law". Since Texas, inexplicably has a separate carry license for revolvers, it appears that K-Mart decided that it was crucial to remind Revolver Permit carriers to carry sixguns rather than semis in their establishment. I'm not quite sure how that became a managerial priority.

-MV

 

[JamisJockey]

Depends on your state laws.

Here in Colorado a sign that says "No Guns" carries no legal weight, in other states (Texas for example) you carry where there's a sign and you'll lose your permit.


Personaly I've never seen a "No Guns" sign around here, but if I did I would probably ignore it ... and maybe later fire of an angry but pointless letter to the business and never return until they took the sign down.

Ditto for Utah. Although I was searched once at an "ultimate fight" that was held at a bar. I had left my CCW in the car anyways, not sure why but my gut told me it belonged there. I imagine that they would have stood behind the old No Shirt No shoes kind of thing. They actually sent me back to my car because of my leatherman.

 

[outofbattery]

A good scattering of shops actually had a sign that had obviously been cut out of a newspaper. Presumably some paper saw fit to serve the public by printing a full page "No Guns Allowed" sign, with dotted line perforations so folks could cut out the sign and post it on their door.


-MV

All kidding aside,I bet that many of the people who put those signs up really think they'll keep armed criminals out.

 

[Old Dog]

Fortunately, posted businesses seem pretty rare in Washington state. I suspect most people up here ignore the signs anyway; there's pretty good awareness of the places you can't pack (courthouses, police stations, bars, inpatient mental health facilities, public stadiums, etc.).

My wife (an RN) once worked in a hospital where every entrance door had the little black pistol silhouette in the red circle with the slash through it ... and in tiny black print underneath, "No firearms allowed."

Of course, this facility had a nurse assaulted a gunpoint in its parking lot late one night ... an angy man with a gun enter the ER looking for his estranged wife (who'd just been brought in subsequent to his domestic assault) ... and a few other incidents that I found interesting as the hospital security was unarmed (and shall we say, not exceptionally well-trained). I once asked the head of security there if he thought the signs kept the bad guys away; he simply sighed and looked away ...

 

[1911Tuner]

Here's yer Sign

All kidding aside,I bet that many of the people who put those signs up really think they'll keep armed criminals out.

After a lot of thought...and asking various business owners...I don't think that most of'em really give a fat rat whether licensed CCW holders enter their places of business armed. Probably more in covering their fannies in case a CCW holder becomes involved in a shooting within their boundaries...including the parking lot if the sign says "On these premises"...so that they can't be named as a co-defendant in a civil suit for not doing what they could in order to keep their establishment "safe" from...(sarcasm mode on)...gun violence.

 

[Hyunchback]

It seemed that every other business in Columbus had a "no guns" sign. We're not just talking bars and post offices here; every convenience store, fast food joints, the guitar store down the street, all had signs to the gist "Carrying a Concealed Weapon in this Establishment is Prohibited"

A good scattering of shops actually had a sign that had obviously been cut out of a newspaper. Presumably some paper saw fit to serve the public by printing a full page "No Guns Allowed" sign, with dotted line perforations so folks could cut out the sign and post it on their door.

Almost makes me wish I still lived there.

I'd want to go into a store, bring something to the counter for purchase, then ask to see the manager. "See this stuff you are trying to sell? Well, I would have bought it here except you have that sign there. Since you think it more important to prohibit law-abiding citizens from carrying guns than making a sale you'll be putting this crap back on the shelf." Then walk out.

Enough people make a point of letting a store know that they are losing money due to signage they aren't required to post and those signs will go the way of the ones that read "No dogs or Irish allowed".