Carrying into posted areas

[Geronimo45]

Well... 'minor infraction' for me is carrying in an area with an illegitimate sign - like the movie theater. I have never carried versus a 30.06 sign. I have carried in banks that had none, while I avoid carry in post offices.
There are people who carry past 30.06 signs, who carry in gun-free zones (mandated by law). These people are in violation of laws... laws that (IMO) have no moral basis whatsoever - tantamount to a speed limit sign, albeit with stiffer penalties. I rarely/barely violate the speed limit laws, and avoid violating gun carry laws (due to penalties only - definite likelihood of expulsion from college, criminal prosecution if caught). Those who do will probably keep quiet, as a public forum is not a guarantee of anonymity.

 

[Treo]

As 2a supporters we talk a lot about rights, well why does carrying a gun allow us to ignore the property owners right to decide for himself what he will or won't allow on his premises ?The owner of the property has the right to set the rules in his establishment. They're the one that's paying the rent. they WORKED for the right to make those rules they also have the obligation to live W/ the consequences of their decision ( I.E you lost my business.)

To those that say all they can do is ask you to leave, really? what's to stop them picking up the phone calling the cops & saying " man W/a gun"? you up for the hassel?

Bottom line, nothing I read in this thread is going to justify ignoring someones right to set the rules in their property. you don't like his rules go some place else.

What makes it ok foryou to ignore the wishes of the owner? Would you act that way if you didn't have a gun?

Last question if I come to your house & you ask me not to smoke ( I don't but go W/me here) why should your right to set the rules in your house over ride my right to pollute my lungs,

 

[Grandpa Shooter]

I answered this question back in college in 1970 after I came back from Vietnam. It was an English Lit class and the question posed for our response was, "Is breaking the law ever justifiable?" It was a stupid question then and I believe it is now. Robert Hairless can play the saint if he wants to, but I take a more practical approach.

If you were driving past a pond on a dirt road and saw children playing, and then realized they were yelling to stop you and you stopped to discover they were telling you a child was drowning; would the NO TRESPASSING sign on the fence stop you? Would you respect the land owners rights, would you go away in good conscience knowing you did not violate the owners rights and obeyed the law?

Would you let the child come to harm when you could have prevented it? If you could you'd be doing the legal thing by not trespassing, but could you do the legal thing and not do the moral thing?

To me it's the same thing. Do what you will. I will do what I will. I don't violate a person's home by smoking in it, or swear in front of ladies or children. I don't shoot on private property, don't shoot within 1/2 mile of a residence, don't steal or cheat. I obey the speed limit whenever possible.
I refuse to obey laws that endanger me or persons in my company.

 

[3rdpig]

I carry everywhere it's legal and I pay little attention to signs unless they carry the weight of law. I avoid like the plague breaking any laws, that comes under my heading of "Don't invite the Man into your life". Considering my job and state laws, I sometimes find myself in places where it's illegal to carry and I've got my carry pistol, no place to put it and in no position to let the people I'm with know I'm carrying. In those cases I just cut as low a profile as possible and rely on good concealment. In a perfect world our liberal Democrat Governor wouldn't have vetoed the law that would allow law abiding CCW holders that do not drink to carry inside establishments that serve alcohol, but it's not a perfect world.

 

[Ala Dan]

Appropriate Answer

Yes, anywhere there isn't a metal detector~!

 

[fearless leader]

Funny you should ask...

I've carried, in court, high school ball games, in a police station, church, and quite illegally on military bases. After they searched the car right in front of me, I quit carrying on military bases. The last one wasn't my fault. I didn't know we were going to a base. I hung around the hospital until they left and tried not to stand out or print. It's hard to hide a Glock 20 in the Florida heat. I also carried it in Disney World for 3 days, in Thunderwear. I didn't see any signs forbiding it, but I understand they get quite excited about that nowadays.

I don't know that it was actually a crime to carry in court during the period of time I did it, or at the school ball game, or even at the school as it was prior to the infamous school shooting in North Mexico (Cali). The military bases and the jail were strictly verbotten, even then.

Our permits were different from the ones we get now. It read something like:
Circuit Court yada yada
Court Order
We find that ___________is of good moral character and sound judgement. He is permitted to carry concealed weapons on or about his person,
Hugs and kisses, the honorable
X______________________

It was more in the form of a court order, but it swings no weight on military reservations or detention facilities.

Unlike the ones we get in Florida, that come with a handy list of where you can and can't, we didn't get that. I assumed that I had a permit to break gun carry laws in the state, the same as a drivers license allows you to drive a car on a road where driving a car without a license is illegal. Perhaps I was wrong, but having never been caught, I don't really care. The judge was a shooting buddy of mine, and I had personal knowlege he was wearing an Astra Terminator Stainless Steel in .44 magnum. He knew I carry a gun, although, he may not have known while I was accepting my traffic fine I was packing.

I think Thomas Jefferson said that " a little rebellion is a good thing."

Disclaimer: I don't advocate or promote you doing these things I have done, I only listed my transgressions in the spirit of the thread. If you are discovered doing these today, you will become a guest of the government for some time.

 

[Treo]

Who Said Anything About " The Law"?

I keep seeing theses responses about " the law" and how we (presumably because we have guns) don't have to obey "the law" or at least not the laws about where to carry.

But what I ( and apparently one other poster) am talking about is the right of a person, who worked just as hard if not harder to get what he has as you did to get what you have. to tell you "Hey this my place and I don't want you to bring a gun here" .

If we refuse to respect his right to use his property as he sees fit, why should the antis respect our right to defend our lives as we see fit?

What I'm hearing here is a lot of " I only respect your rights when its convienient for me to do so" That and a lot of fear. If a guy doesn't want you in his liquor store W/ a gun why not , instead of being a spoiled brat about it, grow a set & tell him that you're taking your business else where because of his policy

Oh wait, I forgot you have a gun. The wishes of a mere (unarmed) mortal don't apply to you.

 

[Zach S]

Last question if I come to your house & you ask me not to smoke ( I don't but go W/me here) why should your right to set the rules in your house over ride my right to pollute my lungs,

I agree with you on property owners rights, but for the sake of debate:

Smoking affects everyone in the area, CCing does not. Not allowing CC in a store is about like saying "no blue jeans allowed." That's no big deal, all you have to do is go back to the car, get your black jeans out of the trunk, change, then you can go in.

Last summer, or the one before, the local rag wrote a story on hippies. Turns out the hippies would go to a store or something, and someone would try to run them off because, well, hippies stink. The ones they tried to run off did anyway. In some instances, the police would be called, and they were told they could be aressted for tresspassing since they were asked to leave. But they werent really doing anything wrong (which is why it was on the front page). They were just going about their business while everyone else was gagging, or gagging while leaving. Afterall, its their right to go a month without washing their clothes or themselves. Most other patrons would leave (myself included) when they smelled hippy. If you're a small business owner, and a family man, that's a little less food on the plate at suppertime. If a hippy comes in, runs all your other customer out, you cant do a damn thing about it.

A "no hippies" sign has no legal standing and could cause you to be the victim of harrasment, assault, a lawsuit, or all three. But if you're ignorant, and think a readily noticable "no guns" sign keeps you safe, anyone that carries into your store could be prosecuted.

I dont carry where I cant legally, and in NC that includes those stupid "no guns" signs at Arby's and a few other places. While I do respect a property owners rights, what few are left, I can still see things from the 80%s' point of veiw.

 

[dbarale]

So Zach, you live in Asheville too...

 

[Zach S]

lol, yeah. If you shoot at On Target we've probably met, it seems like every time I go out there he's so busy I end up behind the counter. Dont know nothin' about the register though, the one thing I dont do is ring people up.

 

[shooter429]

Respecting property owners rights? You mean that you would give up your right to life if some manager of a store told you that was his wish? What about your right to be free of unreasonable search and seizure? Would you give that up if a store owner told you to? Liberty? Tenents in an apartment have to obey a landowners "right" to deny people guns on their premesises? You have to be kidding me. We are not talking about a private home, we are talking corporate policy slight difference.

My .02
Shooter429

 

[shooter429]

Thanks Car Knocker for the info

I was just giving an example of what I thought to be a fairly innocuous exception based on information from the LDS church, specifically. But hey, glad to know the Mormons will let us carry

Shooter429

 

[scurtis_34471]

I carry anywhere it is legal to carry, except work. In Florida, a no-guns sign simply gives them the right to ask me to leave if they notice I'm armed. As concealed means concealed, I don't worry about it.

 

[jkingrph]

A few years ago I attended a convention and had reservations for a Doubletree hotel. When I got there noticed the signs. Figured since I was paying for it the room was mine and it required an "easment" for access. Other than that I complied.

 

[Vermont]

I've never seen a gun free zone sign on a business in Vermont. I'll start keeping an eye out for them.

 

[Biker]

Just because it's legal, don't make it right. Just because it's illegal, don't make it wrong.

Biker

 

[Texan]

Interesting discussion.

Just this past week I went to a restaurant that a lot of motorcycle riders frequent. Texas has a 51% law (any establishment realizing more than 50% of their revenue from the sell of alcohol) is a No Carry establishment. Aimed at bars in general. As I was walking into this restaurant recently I noticed a 51% sign. How long it's been there I have no idea cause it's kinda off to the side.

There is no way this restaurant sells that much alcohol. They are a family restaurant with a small bar off to the side. I think it's just a way for the owner attempting to keep firearms out of his business without posting a sign about the owner not wanting concealed carry. I've been out of town since noticing the sign...don't know what I'm going to do in the future but think I'm going to continue to carry in there.

o~\o

 

[harbingerm]

Texan, if I were sure they don't meet the 51% criteria, I'd carry anyway, too. I thought the only legal signage in TX had to be 30.06 compliant.

 

[Otto_McNab]

I'm from RI and pretty much the ONLY people who get to carry here are cops so carrying anywhere is a no no.

 

[Texan]

Nah, we have the 30.06, the 51% AND the "purple tape" laws. The "purple tape" law is really the one that takes the cake. Seems a State Senator that attended a University in Texas who's colors are purple and white got a law passed that would allow them to put that tape on fence post and such at State Parks and such where signs were not practical. Talk about confusing!!!!

So you not only have to look for the signs but purple tape.

o~\o

 

[Ghost Tracker]

If it's policy with no legislative teeth I honestly coundn't care less. In the unfortunate appearance of a societal predator in those gun-free locations...watch how many anti-gun folks dive behind the legal CCW carrier who is an unwilling victim.

 

[03Shadowbob]

itz uh gud theng i am iletrit i doo knot nede 2 wuree

 

[Hook686]

It never ceases to amaze me how folks can scream and whine to have law applied to them (RKBA un der U.S. Constitution), yet take great joy in rejecting other laws that are established by virture of that same constitutional process.

It is as though some believe they can do as they damn well want to, but by God you better apply those laws my way.

 

[harbingerm]

Hook, the criminals don't give a damn about signs, so why should I? That's doesn't make me a criminal as I'm only "violating" policy. Concealed means concealed so they'll never know about it anyway.

 

[Biker]

Well Hook, that's pretty much how I see it. If a law is righteous, I'll be obeying that bad boy. If not? I'll be scraping it off the bottom of my boot.

I live by three rules:

Don't lie.

Don't steal.

Never kick a dog that ain't bigger than you.


Everything else is pretty much negotiable.

Biker