Cautious Optimism - Democrats Starting To Get It?
- Thread starter camslam
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chuckusaret
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You hit the nail on the head. Your elected officials will do what ever it takes to get elected or re elected
Animal Mother
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Well, I have wondered if fellow gun owners would actually begin to trust Democrats not to go after their gun rights should BHO do as he stated on the campaign trail and not pursue gun control for the next four years.
Would that actually result in making a gun rights a bi-partisan issue?
I saw a graph that measured the trend of NRA dollars to Rep and Dem candidates over the years and there has been a steady shifting of the % of dollars from the Reps to pro-gun Dems. IIRC the graph went from almost 90% Rep/10% Dem back in the mid 1990s to more like a 60/40 split with our recent elections. I think thats a good thing for gunowners. The more fractured the Dem party is on gun rights the better, until they finally retire the anti-gun fringe to the dust pan of history.
Would that actually result in making a gun rights a bi-partisan issue?
I saw a graph that measured the trend of NRA dollars to Rep and Dem candidates over the years and there has been a steady shifting of the % of dollars from the Reps to pro-gun Dems. IIRC the graph went from almost 90% Rep/10% Dem back in the mid 1990s to more like a 60/40 split with our recent elections. I think thats a good thing for gunowners. The more fractured the Dem party is on gun rights the better, until they finally retire the anti-gun fringe to the dust pan of history.
Democrats don't want us to get in the way of their gigantic scheme for ripping off generations of Americans on behalf of their Boomer constituency. When that's hammered down, they'll be coming for us.
Eric Holder just couldn't keep his mouth shut. He will probably be punished for not keeping this stuff quiet. That's the only real goal: keep it quiet for the moment.
Whether or not you think the GOP is a good alternative, this IS what the Democrats are doing, and what they've been planning for a long time -- as the fast pace of current legislation, and Obama's bald-faced lies about transparency and 5 days of public review before signing a bill, demonstrate quite clearly.
We -- gun owners -- just aren't their primary target right now.
If you don't get that, you're quite naive, to put it nicely.
That leads to something else. Right now, we have a lot of power that we won't have when they come for us directly. Right now, just by threatening a distraction, we can win. The NRA is doing that in the House as we speak.
Eric Holder just couldn't keep his mouth shut. He will probably be punished for not keeping this stuff quiet. That's the only real goal: keep it quiet for the moment.
Whether or not you think the GOP is a good alternative, this IS what the Democrats are doing, and what they've been planning for a long time -- as the fast pace of current legislation, and Obama's bald-faced lies about transparency and 5 days of public review before signing a bill, demonstrate quite clearly.
We -- gun owners -- just aren't their primary target right now.
If you don't get that, you're quite naive, to put it nicely.
That leads to something else. Right now, we have a lot of power that we won't have when they come for us directly. Right now, just by threatening a distraction, we can win. The NRA is doing that in the House as we speak.
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LemmyCaution
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Ever hear of Vermont? Why don't you look up our Brady Campaign score? Then look at our polling results from the 2008 election.
Your statement is asinine on so many levels it's barely worth responding to. Assuming you are a Republican, I have to say that your party has been the far worse abuser of civil liberties, generally (not that I give you credit to give a rat's ass about any of the others, or even to be able to name them). There are an embarrassing number of Republicans who voted for the AWB. Your president said he'd sign it if it crossed his desk.
If there is a reason we will lose our 2A rights, it is not because pro-gun Democrats don't turn Republican, it will be because people like you can't handle anything more than laughably simple Manichaean rhetoric.
CoRoMo
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I hesitate to believe that there are very many Republican politicians that really care much about 2A rights above their desire of being reelected. A lot of them are just power hungry politicians too. They don't offer much, but they seem to be all I can rely on.
IMHO, I can not believe that there are any Democrat politicians at all, who would not like to see at least one more type of firearms control, or who would go as far as to roll back some of the infringements we've seen over the decades. Sure, I can hear their words, but their actions/inactions speak clearer.
IMHO, I can not believe that there are any Democrat politicians at all, who would not like to see at least one more type of firearms control, or who would go as far as to roll back some of the infringements we've seen over the decades. Sure, I can hear their words, but their actions/inactions speak clearer.
camslam
Member
My comments are asinine? Got any other examples of the free wheeling democratic bastions wielding guns and promoting gun rights, other than that BOOMING, HEAVILY POPULATED, METROPOLIS OF VERMONT?
Hilarious. You'll notice in my previous posts I equally spread blame on what policitians of both parties have done and are currently doing to our country. It is partisan hacks like yourself that get so caught up in political ideology instead of common sense, common decency, justice, fairness, self accountability, self awareness, respect for others, and consequences for actions.
Bush was terrible, Congress was worse. Congress controlled by either party for the last 60 years has been a trainwreck.
The point of this article was some Democrats are starting to get it. It will be interesting to see what happens when the Democrats that are in power, i.e. the ones I listed, go to battle for gun control.
Vermont???? Vermont is all you can come up with? How about California, New Jersey, Connecticut, Massachussetts, Washington D.C., Illinois, Wisconsin, Hawaii, New York? See a theme anywhere there?
Let me help you. Completely Democratic controlled states, both by votes and politicians, and the worst gun laws you can find. With regular assaults on gun rights.
(Let me caution) that you get a clue.
CoRoMo
Member
The primary purpose of the 2nd Amendment is for the citizenry to be armed as protection against their own government.
I've heard many elected Republicans make statements like this. Whether it is a core belief that they hold dear, who knows, but it has been said many times over.
I've never heard any Democrat ever come close to those words. I'd really like to be pointed in the direction of such language though. Usually Dems try to redefine the 2A by talking about their hunting experiences, thus changing the definition from freedom to hunting. That is beneficial to them because hunting is completely controlled from start to finish and top to bottom. You will be told when, where, how, and with what you can hunt. Control is the objective when it is about hunting.
It is not about hunting.
stonecutter2
Member
Man, you're not kidding! Read the end of this article about their problem now with "knife crime." It's kind of ridiculous.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/03/04/uk.potter.star.murdered/index.html
"We need to change the way young people think about knives, we need families and communities working together ... to get this message across and help stamp out knife crime and get weapons off our streets."
England's newest looming threat..."habitual knife carriers." Just when you think you've hit the bottom of the slope, you realize you've got a long way to slide!
Omaha-BeenGlockin
Member
The Dems only "get it" in what gets them re-elected.
MAKE NO MISTAKE---when it comes to their final Communist Utopia---they will have to disarm you--TO CONTROL YOU.
MAKE NO MISTAKE---when it comes to their final Communist Utopia---they will have to disarm you--TO CONTROL YOU.
LemmyCaution
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You asked for one example.
I gave it to you.
Then you lost your temper and started calling me names. Which is why people who don't like guns don't want people like you to have them. You can't control your temper, and they are afraid of you. Probably with good reason.
That's true of politicians in general, not just Democrats.
The Democrats, however, have been the ones who have further restrictions on firearms in their parties' platforms, and in the President's platform.
Therefore, in their minds, gun control DOES get them elected.
That's what's scary.
Pro-2nd Amendment Democrat politicians are a bit like sasquatch.
Every once in awhile, we get a blurry photograph...
I have a hard time understanding why I should be happy for pro-gun socialists.
They may marginally support one fundamental principal of individual freedom, but I want nothing to do with the rest of their agenda.
Every once in awhile, we get a blurry photograph...
I have a hard time understanding why I should be happy for pro-gun socialists.
They may marginally support one fundamental principal of individual freedom, but I want nothing to do with the rest of their agenda.
Both current political parties exist to pitch us against each other based on idealogical issues, while true liberties are constantly eroded.
That's what gets me the most.
We like guns, so does that mean we sacrifice others valued liberties to maintain our own? Because it seems to me that is the modern face of politics. Pick the issues YOU value the most, and throw others liberties under the bus.
Spend some time over at DU, I could copy and paste rants from of the extreme lefties, and exchange political monikers and they would fit right at home over here here. While I believe in capitalism, working for what you get and the general notion the socialism defaces individual freedom, economic freedom isn't the same as personal freedom. (IE: Just because somebody wants nationalized health care (terrible idea in my mind) doesn't mean they want to be 'baby sat' by the govt)
Can't we come to some kind of understanding that ALL politically active people truly DO value freedom? Why else are we so involved with the election system?
It's suprising so many rational, intelligent people are blinded by party faith towards the true issue, the errosion of ALL liberties...
That's what gets me the most.
We like guns, so does that mean we sacrifice others valued liberties to maintain our own? Because it seems to me that is the modern face of politics. Pick the issues YOU value the most, and throw others liberties under the bus.
Spend some time over at DU, I could copy and paste rants from of the extreme lefties, and exchange political monikers and they would fit right at home over here here. While I believe in capitalism, working for what you get and the general notion the socialism defaces individual freedom, economic freedom isn't the same as personal freedom. (IE: Just because somebody wants nationalized health care (terrible idea in my mind) doesn't mean they want to be 'baby sat' by the govt)
Can't we come to some kind of understanding that ALL politically active people truly DO value freedom? Why else are we so involved with the election system?
It's suprising so many rational, intelligent people are blinded by party faith towards the true issue, the errosion of ALL liberties...
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Omaha-BeenGlockin
Member
On that note--
Drug Prohabition has to end and the Patriot Act has to end.
Those two things have killed off your rights more than anything.
Drug Prohabition has to end and the Patriot Act has to end.
Those two things have killed off your rights more than anything.
That's exactly my point. Our freedom might not be the same as some one else's, yet we are willing to throw them under the bus if it gets us what we want.
I await the day when people value ALL freedoms, not just the stuff that effects their own little selfish life.
camslam
Member
Lemmycaution wrote:
Judging from your thin skin and your irrational inferences, I'd say it is probably best not to engage you further. But since I have 2 minutes. It is too bad we don't have a emoticon that shows someone sniffing and crying, because that is what I would give you. You don't know me from Adam, but from my statement you assume that I'm a Republican with a temper I can't control, which causes people to be afraid of me, leading to a desire to disarm me.
Forgive me, but you are a FRIGGIN MORON. If being called a "partisan hack" is so devastating for you, perhaps you should toughen up. Let me remind you, this was YOUR response to my identification of the lack of Liberal Democratic bastions, supporting the 2nd amendment and gun rights:
1. You started the name calling.
2. I had already included the Republicans in the blame for where we find ourselves as a country.
3. Your assumptions are incorrect as I stated earlier that I would be independently and conservatively watching what happens.
I don't know you and I will refrain from hurting your delicate little feelings any further, but if you can't bring something constructive to the debate, feel free to post in other threads. Judging from your responses, it is people like you that benefit from the hard work others do, to maintain your gun rights.
Keep up the good work.
Judging from your thin skin and your irrational inferences, I'd say it is probably best not to engage you further. But since I have 2 minutes. It is too bad we don't have a emoticon that shows someone sniffing and crying, because that is what I would give you. You don't know me from Adam, but from my statement you assume that I'm a Republican with a temper I can't control, which causes people to be afraid of me, leading to a desire to disarm me.
Forgive me, but you are a FRIGGIN MORON. If being called a "partisan hack" is so devastating for you, perhaps you should toughen up. Let me remind you, this was YOUR response to my identification of the lack of Liberal Democratic bastions, supporting the 2nd amendment and gun rights:
1. You started the name calling.
2. I had already included the Republicans in the blame for where we find ourselves as a country.
3. Your assumptions are incorrect as I stated earlier that I would be independently and conservatively watching what happens.
I don't know you and I will refrain from hurting your delicate little feelings any further, but if you can't bring something constructive to the debate, feel free to post in other threads. Judging from your responses, it is people like you that benefit from the hard work others do, to maintain your gun rights.
Keep up the good work.
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