Quantcast
  1. I hate to do this to y'all, but the migration went well, then I broke THR by trying to recompile software. Rather than leave THR down for 12+ hours as I try to fix this, I just reverted back to the old server.

    This means data entered on THR tonight is gone. I'm sorry. It's the best I can do right now though.

    I'm going to get some sleep and try this another way tomorrow.

    Again, I'm sorry for the loss of data and resulting confusion.

    Dismiss Notice

CC Cover Garment Draw

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics and Training' started by Good Ol' Boy, Jun 8, 2018.

  1. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    Messages:
    1,424
    Location:
    Mechanicsville, VA
    This topic is specific to drawing your CC piece while removing your cover garment for SD purposes.

    I initially used the two handed method but recently have been mainly using a single (strong hand) hand approach. I've noticed that done right it's not much slower but it does increase the possibility of a foul up. Still, for SD purposes, not games, it seems keeping the weak hand free during the draw makes sense.


    So, do you strictly use one method or the other, or practice both? Reasons why?
     
    ChanceMcCall likes this.
  2. entropy

    entropy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    6,374
    Location:
    G_d's Country, WI
    I practice both. You may not always be able to use both hands.
     
  3. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    Messages:
    1,424
    Location:
    Mechanicsville, VA
    Just to add, I realize the type of CG could make a difference. Again this is not theorizing "games" where most wear an unbuttoned shirt or jacket, although if that's your EDC dress don't be offended. I'm thinking more like solid tee-shirts or something you would have to lift up rather than brush back.

    Either way share your thoughts...
     
    ChanceMcCall likes this.
  4. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    Messages:
    1,424
    Location:
    Mechanicsville, VA

    I agree but...

    If you can master the one hand what reason would there be to practice two hands?
     
    ChanceMcCall likes this.
  5. RPZ

    RPZ Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2017
    Messages:
    1,204
    Depends where you are carrying and what you are wearing.
     
    ChanceMcCall likes this.
  6. entropy

    entropy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    6,374
    Location:
    G_d's Country, WI
    Two hands is still faster. I wouldn't say I have one-handed mastered by any means....
     
  7. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2008
    Messages:
    6,319
    Location:
    SouthEastern FL
    Buttoned, but untucked shirt for me virtually all of the time. I've practiced the one-handed draw far more. The thumb hooks the cover garment upward as the hand comes into position from somewhat below.

    In this round of carrying (starting in 2008), I had an infant/toddler the first few years to carry also, so I considered the other hand as not available. It usually is now.
     
    1911 guy and ChanceMcCall like this.
  8. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2016
    Messages:
    3,519
    Location:
    Fl panhandle
    Before I moved to the tropics, I carried strong-side OWB, normally covered up with a unbuttoned work short or fleece jacket. Sweep shirt, pop retention, present. You would be surprised at how easy it is to sweep aside a cover top that has a heavy duty zip-tie sewn inside of the button seam.
     
    RPZ likes this.
  9. Corpral_Agarn

    Corpral_Agarn Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,647
    Location:
    Northern CA
    I practice using both two hands and one hand but prefer two hands.

    Imo the 2 handed draw gives me enough extra speed that it is worth it.

    The one handed draw, imo, is really most important when opening a door, turning a steering wheel, grabbing a loved one, etc. It also can work to create some space during a draw, but that can get tricky as it means the assailant(s) are almost on top of you.

    If the bad guy is already attacking uo close, it is likely that i will be trying to create distance with both hands then draw.

    It is very situational.

    Draw speed is the no. 1 reason i carry appendix. I dont carry appendix all the time but that is the reason i initially explored that option.
     
    MedWheeler likes this.
  10. fastbolt

    fastbolt Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    2,810
    Location:
    Within the lightning
    The use of 1 or 2 hands for a concealed draw-stroke is largely dependent on the garments being worn.

    I spent about 13 years before retirement in a plainclothes assignment. It wasn't UC, but a suit/sport/casual coat type of assignment. That meant I did a lot of practice clearing my coat (or coats, if a raincoat was also being worn) drawing 1-handed. During cooler weather, I also wore a fleece of jacket when working in my additional firearms instructor role (outside range), so it was an easy thing to do a lot of live-fire practice wearing that sort of cover garment when working range sessions.

    Now, off-duty, in colder weather, I'd sometimes find myself wearing a sweater/sweatshirt under a jacket. That necessitated becoming familiar and comfortable using 2 hands for the accessing the belt holstered gun for the draw-stroke. The off-hand did the lift for one garment and the strong hand did the usual sweep, reach and grasp draw from under the other garment.

    As with many things in life involving repetitive coordinated movements, it required a lot of successful properly executed repetitions in order to get things down to a smooth movement where I didn't have to stand there and think through the process step-by-step. It had to become reflexive if I was going to rely upon doing it while possibly having to do other things (crouch, step offline, lean back in a chair, twist away from something, etc).

    Well, hey, do you think you might need to do it ... or you might desperately need to do it right, and do it right the first time while you're trying to catch up with unexpected events?

    This is the sort of thing where a good instructor can help acquire the combination of movements involved, especially someone who's done it for a long time (meaning some thousands of properly executed, smooth repetitions).

    Do you have to stop and think your way through the process of unlacing your shoes, or just slipping off loafers? Does it make you stop and think if you're unlacing boot laces through eyelets or around hooks,versus just unzipping a side zipper or tugging off a Wellington boot? Or, have you done all of those things for so many repetitions that you automatically recognize which is needed, and how to do it without having to stop and consciously think about it?

    Does removing your wallet from an open rear pocket, a velcro tabbed rear pocket or a buttoned rear pocket stymy you, or do you automatically adjust and accomplish it with relative ease and smoothness because you know what pants or shorts you're wearing, and what's required to remove that wallet without fumbling it and tossing it away from you?

    If it's not a natural movement, what is it? ;)

    What do you want to be able to do in a high stress situation?
     
    ChanceMcCall and qwert65 like this.
  11. rpenmanparker

    rpenmanparker Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2018
    Messages:
    1,095
    I don’t see how to reliably lift a closed garment without using the support hand.
     
  12. Curtism1

    Curtism1 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2018
    Messages:
    26
    Location:
    SC Kansas
    I try to practice many different scenarios when drawing from my EDC. When the SHTF you never know if both hands will be available or one might be busy defending yourself (strong or support hand). I firmly believe that one should practice manipulating your weapon with only the support hand along with all the other draw methods. I have never needed to draw for SD and I hope that day never comes, but being prepared for as many different scenarios as possible is good practice. Just don't practice with everything being a perfect world.
     
  13. Stevie-Ray

    Stevie-Ray Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2003
    Messages:
    4,263
    Location:
    Mitchi-gun, the Sunrise Side
    If it's a light jacket, it's quite easy for me using only the strong thumb. Heavy leather coats, however, CAN present a problem. (OWB, 3:30)
     
    entropy likes this.
  14. rpenmanparker

    rpenmanparker Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2018
    Messages:
    1,095
    Closed?
     
  15. entropy

    entropy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    6,374
    Location:
    G_d's Country, WI
    Yes, closed, too. Actually, I initially pull it up with the pinky and ring finger, then use the thumb to hold it up and simultaneously slip the thumb down for the draw. For heavier coats, I jam the thumb between the coat and shirt, push up, turn the wrist in, and draw. As I said, not quite as fast as two hands, but you can't always use two hands. It also telegraphs less, as one can do it bladed to the subject being drawn to without drawing as much attention, particularly if done slowly and deliberately, as if pulling a wallet out or such.
     
    ChanceMcCall and Good Ol' Boy like this.
  16. Rick McC.

    Rick McC. Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2013
    Messages:
    61
    Location:
    Weeki Wachee, FL
    One hand only, along with the scoop draw, regardless of type of cover garment.

    I much prefer to have the other hand available for whatever may be necessary.
     
    ChanceMcCall and JeffG like this.
  17. Stevie-Ray

    Stevie-Ray Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2003
    Messages:
    4,263
    Location:
    Mitchi-gun, the Sunrise Side
    I use my whole hand for the heavy leathers, slipping it under the coat until it hits the wrist, which is then used for leverage. My leathers have a ribbed bottom, except for the duster, which is the only two-handed coat I own.
     
  18. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Messages:
    5,363
    What does a "scoop draw" mean in this context/your usage?
     
  19. strambo

    strambo Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,961
    Location:
    Oregon
    2 hand is primary for me as it is faster, but I practice 1 hand a lot as well. If my off hand is occupied, the 1 hand method will come naturally (if practiced).
     
  20. Mikhail Weiss

    Mikhail Weiss Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    405
    I use one hand because it's more efficient.
     
  21. jeepnik

    jeepnik Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,859
    Location:
    SoCal
    My climate rarely makes heavy outer garments necessary. My carry method, OWB cross, makes it very easy to reach under the covering garment (often a "Hawaiian shirt"). Couple that together and one handed draw is not only fast, but places the drawn firearm perfectly whether you want to continue with a one handed presentation or go to two.

    It's very easy to drop safeties, cock hammers or any other manipulations required to get a firearm ready to fire. Of course, since I really prefer a double action revolver nothing is necessary to prep one to fire.
     
  22. SSN Vet

    SSN Vet Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2006
    Messages:
    5,884
    Location:
    The Dark Side of the Moon
    Not an expert by any means, nor do I attempt to play one on the internet...

    But since you asked.... I sweep my cover garment (most often a jacket or fleece vest) with my strong (right) hand and then draw from the strong side 4 pm position with the same hand.

    Reasons are:
    1. Keeps the off hand free, specifically, to maintain distance if the BG is closing.
    2. I step back (rather than forward) with my strong side into a shallow fighting stance, as this opens up distance, keeps my free hand and body between BG and my piece and conceals what my strong side hand is doing.
    3. I don't want to draw attention to what my strong hand is doing by lifting up my cover garment with the off hand.
    Note: I carry OWB in a pancake or Sneaky Pete, so it isn't necessary to yank up my shirt or anything.... just to sweep the jacket over the holstered handgun.

    YMMV
     
  23. rpenmanparker

    rpenmanparker Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2018
    Messages:
    1,095
    Good to know, but in fairness that only works in climates where such garments are practical. In Houston f you want to sweep a garment off your gun, an untucked and unbuttoned lightweight, woven cloth shirt and the requisite tucked in tee shirt underneath would be as close to your jacket or vest as could be realized for most of the year. And even that would be one shirt more than could really be worn comfortably. The gun would have to be chosen so as to not print under such a light concealment garment. And wearing one's shirt unbuttoned and showing your undershirt is not everyone's preference for common activities.

    In warm climates I think that well-designed pants pocket holsters are possibly the best solution.
     
  24. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2013
    Messages:
    3,970
    I use the one handed approach. When starting to carry it became the most natural way to draw a firearm. And after several years of doing it the same way, it is faster for me to use one hand than two. I do practice two hand draw stroke and it just feels unnatural. So I stick with the one hand method.

    Using one hand is very useful. In the event you have to draw your firearm, you will not be in a static environment. You will be using one of your hands to direct people to safety or even deal with an assailant. Practicing using two hands to do a very basic task is fooling yourselves into thinking you will have the ability to use both hands in a crisis situation.
     
  25. Wichaka

    Wichaka Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Messages:
    242
    Location:
    Washington State
    I use one hand. The thumb leads under the garment and heads for the pistol. Once it finds the grip it goes over the top with the rest of the hand following, the garment will naturally clear itself. Draw as normal.
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice