CCW help for my girlfriend

[spiroxlii]

My girlfriend and I went to the courthouse today and filed for our carry permits. She is enthusiastic about finding the right handgun and enrolling in a carry class, but we're having some trouble finding a weapon that she likes. I've read the Cornered Cat articles, so I'm not trying to steer her too much beyond answering any questions she asks me while we're at the shop.

She would prefer an autoloader over a revolver, but her hands are very very small, so she has trouble properly gripping most pistols. The only one that really fits firmly in her hand and puts a smile on her face is the KelTec P3AT, which by most accounts is a fine weapon. The problem here is that the P3AT's small size makes it a very light weapon. She and I both think that she'd be more confident and more likely to practice if her handgun didn't have the snappy/punishing recoil that she keeps reading about with the P3AT.

Do any of you have any recommendations for a larger/heavier pistol that still has smallish grips? I understand that the grip dimensions of an autoloader are affected by the ammo it eats, since the magazine goes in there. Something in .380ACP is probably best for her. If you want an indication of just how small her hands are, she found the P3AT's grip to be comfortable, but the 9mm KelTec P11's grip was slightly too big for her.

I've already suggested that she'd be able to hold a j-frame revolver better, and she hasn't ruled that out, but she would prefer an autoloader because she likes how they look.

 

[Jimmie]

PPK or Sig 232? I don't know how the grip sizes compare, though.

Have you looked at a small 9mm? Blowback pistols (most 380s) aren't known for as light recoil as you might expect.

 

[autospike]

Kahr MK9 (the metal gun, not the polymer PM9). Yeah, It's 9mm. But IIRC, recoil is going to be about the same or less than that plastic blowback .380.

Walther PPS might do, but I haven't seen enough range reports on them nor shot one.

A heavy J-Frame (like a 36 Lady Smith) with laser grips and loaded with some lower recoil .38 Specials might be OK for her. I mentioned the grips because mine really make the gun easier to shoot recoil and sight wise.

Most important thing is for her to handle and shoot a lot of them in person.

I will send you a PM of a buddy in ATL that teaches. He can probably let her shoot a variety of guns and help evaluate what she needs.

 

[spiroxlii]

Jimmie, she held several 9mm pistols including a KelTec P11, and a couple of small Glocks. The P11 uses a single-stack magazine, and its small size is one of its main selling points, but it was still hard for her to hold it properly when she tried to check its fit against her hand as directed by the Cornered Cat articles she has read.

 

[spiroxlii]

autospike, I'd really appreciate the name of that instructor. She's not deathly afraid of recoil. She'd just like to have as comfortable a pistol as possible. The P3AT fits her hand quite well. She and I both were just wondering if there was a heavier autoloader with similarly sized grips so the extra mass of the weapon could help reduce felt recoil.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

Kahr

1911

S&W M&P with the small grip backstrap fitted

 

[BP44]

Hi I recently went through this with my girlfriend. I have a p3at I carry sometimes and i let her shoot it once and now she has a ruger sp101. The recoil of the p3at was to much and she just could not get over it so a heavy wheel gun was the ticket

Also stick to your guns and make sure she can shoot it and shoot it good, my girlfriend wanted my p3at because it was little and "cute". that was until she went to range with me and ran a box of shells through it and she couldnt keep them in a 6ft group

 

[TimboKhan]

It's not a compact, but the new Ruger SR9 is hi-cap and is very slim. I agree that the P3AT isn't a great weapon for her to carry, because it really isn't a "beginners" gun. It's a good weapon, but I think she would be better off with something else. Kahr would be a good place to look, maybe the new Glock SF pistols, maybe a Bersa, and it's worth looking at CZ or a Browing HP.

It's also worth mentioning that it is probably better to get her a fullsize gun rather than a compact if she is worried about recoil. Also, being a woman, she has the option of carrying in a purse which makes hauling a fullsize gun around a little less worrisome. I hope that doesn't come across as sexist, but it is something to consider.

 

[spiroxlii]

Believe me, guys. She's a woman, and she knows it. Your arguments don't come across as "sexist" to her. She knows that she's looking for he holy grail of a weapon that is small enough to hold, cute or sexy looking, and effective while maintaining light felt recoil.

Ultimately, her handgun choice(s) will be narrowed down when she has a chance to hold and fire a variety of weapons, but we'd like to reduce our weapon rental and ammo costs by sorting out which handful of pistols she should really look into first.

A CZ83 is an interesting option that I almost forgot about.. which is weird, since I want a vz82 from AIM Surplus...

 

[autospike]

No problem. Your Private Message is inbound.

The MK9 is a single stack 9 and I think it's your best bet. Overall it's a bit smaller envelope than the G26, but REALLY thin. I wouldn't consider the PM9 because of the recoil issue and because they don't seem to be as reliable as the all metal guns.

I'm a little guy and have small hands as well so I feel her pain.
I carry either a J or a Glock 9mm. But honestly, the Glocks are too big for the *ideal* fit. I've all but abandoned my polymer Kahr because I wanted to standardize and because I can't keep the thing running smoothly. I haven't heard many complaints about the all metal ones though.

The guns with interchangeable backstraps do *nothing* for me. I have a P2000 and I have shot the M&Ps with different inserts. The problem is that they still don't really make the length of the trigger reach short enough.

I actually wound up getting a frame mod done on one of my G19s. It's better, but there is only so much material that they can take off back there.

Good luck.

 

[kashton]

Kahr MK40 elite 2003

 

[spiroxlii]

OH NO! She just found pictures of the NAA mini revolvers online. Now I'm going to have to talk her out of buying it on impulse because it's so darn cute and precious!

She's pulling the, "But you said a revolver might be better!" argument now...

 

[tbeb]

I know you mention semi-automatic but here's our story.

My wife doesn't carry, but her house gun is a .357 magnum Ruger Speed Six with 2 3/4" barrel. Grips are original "skimpy" ones. My wife is petite and has small hands. These grips enable her to properly position her trigger finger for double action shooting. Custom work has been done by a good gunsmith to lighten the double action trigger pull to 8-9 pounds. Ammunition is .38 special +P 125 gr. JHP's. This is the combo which works very well for her.

My wife learned to shoot with a double action, Harrington and Richardson, 4" barrelled, .22 long rifle revolver. Next I bought her a Ruger P-95 which is a 9mm semi-auto. That didn't work out too well. Actually she shoots my 5" barrelled Springfield .45 ACP pretty darn good. Grips are reasonable small on a 1911 style pistol with single stack magazine. All in all, the revolver has a simple manual of arms--and that won out.

 

[spiroxlii]

double post

 

[gunmn74]

this may be of some help

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=171820&highlight=bobo%27s+pocket+auto+chart

 

[spiroxlii]

tbeb, I have a .22mag H&R double action revolver. I may let her take it out on the range some to see if she can get used to da revolver shooting. Good idea!

 

[SeanMTX]

You said she tried a Taurus PT 111?

Short barrel, single stack, thin grips (too thin for me to be honest) and polymer frame for lightness.

It doesn't weigh a ton, functions flawlessly, has thin grips and a short barrel, and offers 9mm performance instead of .380.
If you haven't checked it out, you should. The price is right.

 

[Mulliganpaintdee]

My wife has small hands too and she loves the feel of my SR9. Have her hold one of those. Its no .380 but its the next best thing

 

[btg3]

I have hands so small that I can wear ladies size gloves.

Suggest you try on:
Bersa Thunder .380 ACP autoloader
Ruger SP101 revolver

Both feel like they were made for me!

That said, for a first gun get 9mm - - mainly b/c you should shoot it a lot and the ammo savings will pay for your next gun.

 

[kd7nqb]

Walther PPS is a good option as is the Kel-tec P11. Some people have good luck with the Markarov's if the gun has slim enough grips on it, down side to that is super overpriced ammo and not the easiest to find.

 

[JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone]

Female personal carry...

OK, most women that carry don't use a holster on their person. The gun ends up in the purse. She's leaning toward a semi auto. OK, that's fine, but safeties do get flipped in a purse. Hell, it happens on some pistols when holstered.

So, the safest thing to carry in that manner is a hammerless double action revolver. Pick one in stainless. 38special for practice. +P or .357 for defense.

Otherwise, a S&W LadySmith, or RugerSP101, or Colt Cobra or some such with hammer will still be a nice starter carry piece.

Now, that said, if the semi-auto is still the preference, size, weight and recoil are concerns, (but remember, you can't fight Newton's Laws), then you have to find a 'heavy Polymer, or a light metal' gun. Yes, stay away from those little micro revolvers. OMG! But don't overlook the older tried and proven pistols. Colt Mustang or on less budget, a Detonics Pocket acp. If she wants something a little bigger than that, then a Colt Officer's Lightweight. I don't mean to push the Colts, but they are tried, proven, and resale quite well. Can't really say that about many of the plastic pistols out there. OH, and accuracy. You get what you pay for. A buddy bought one of those Keltec P11's and brought it to the range just prior to our Bullseye shoot. Now, he's not a bad shot. Crimony, my shotgun shoots a better group than that Keltec. Sorry, I'm not impressed.

My two cents.

There's some really good advise in this thread, but before you go buy a pistol, go through the CCW class first. You, and she, will be much better informed to make the purchase decision that fits you best.

And I'm suprised that PAX hasn't responded to this thread. Send her a PM and get her thoughts.

Oh, by the way. When my wife carries, she's got a Colt Cobra handy.

-Steve

 

[benEzra]

OH NO! She just found pictures of the NAA mini revolvers online. Now I'm going to have to talk her out of buying it on impulse because it's so darn cute and precious!

She's pulling the, "But you said a revolver might be better!" argument now...

The NAA mini-revolvers kick more than you'd realize (due to their microscopic size, and the fact that you can only hold them with two or three fingers); and they are slow as all get out to shoot (you have to thumb-cock them before each shot, which for me required shifting my grip). They are also the least powerful handgun you can possibly buy.

They are neat as range toys, though; I loved mine, 1 1/8" barrel .22LR, but I finally sold it because I wasn't comfortable with it as a defensive tool. A Kel-Tec P32 (.32 ACP) would be a far better defensive gun, and WAY easier to shoot well.

 

[Butter]

One other thing to consider, since my wife and I have been hunting around for a handgun that she can use defensively and handle well. She's used to revolvers, but has a tough time with the slide on my automatics except for my P22 Walther. And forget about the double action on my 686 or on my Beretta Storm. Finger strength and arm strength are just not there for her (she's 5'2"). So this might be a consideration for you as well, about manipulating and auto's slide and the ability to clear malfunctions, which may not be as problematic with a revolver.

I think minimally, .380 or 38 Special would be what you have to look at. So we considered what she would like and it was a toss up between the SP101 and the SW 640 with Crimson Trace. We went with the latter since the grip felt better to her and she has no problem with the double action only on the 640.

 

[Zerstoerer]

I have gone though the same thing:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=169367

The solution: Walther P22

A 22 in the hand bears the 1911 in the gun safe any day.

 

[romma]

A Kel-Tec P32 (.32 ACP) would be a far better defensive gun, and WAY easier to shoot well.

+1 Step the Keltec down one size!