Billmanweh said:
have civilians ever been able to carry guns on board commerical flights?
Yes actually. Remember that there wasn't screening for any weapons until hijackings became all the rage. No metal detectors, no bag searches.
As for the argument "well no one carried then because there were no permits" that's hogwash. In most states, up until the 50's or so, people were VERY rarely arrested for carrying a concealed weapon illegally. Again it was just a "don't ask don't tell" kind of thing. Law Enforcement did not have the same kind of distrust of "us civilians" as they do now.
They sold shoulder holsters to people besides law enforcement before there was concealed carry in lots of states. What do you suppose those were used for?
I have a copy of some CAA (precursor to FAA) regs from the 50's and there is not one rule about knives or firearms or lighters. Back then no one thought to ask because that kind of invasion of privacy was just rude.
BTW, anyone want to compare the number of hijackings pre-1973 when it was apparently ok for everyone to bring guns onto planes and post-1973 when screening began? That might be enlightening.
So it was the hijackings that started the screenings but the biggest fear was bombs not firearms. There were few hijackings before 1973 domestically, and anyone could have a gun.
The first major "hijacking" was November 1, 1955. This was a bomb in the luggage, not a gun.
Nothing again until February 21, 1968 and this was a flight that originated in Cuba and was hijacked to Miami. None of the passengers would have had guns anyway, they were Cuban citizens and that government does not allow guns.
Then the big rash of flights leaving Miami and hijacked to Cuba began. In the late 60's there was a rash of these. Most were done WITHOUT firearms, just the threat of a bomb on board somewhere.
In general the thinking was, and it turned out to be true domestically, that if you complied with the demands no one would be hurt.
After that we have lots of hijackings overseas, but we're talking about domestic flights here since we're talking state issued CCW permits.
Then 9/11. Now we know that compliance will get you killed. If there had been someone carrying concealed on those flights it's entirely possible we would have a very different history.
It is the bad guys that have changed everyones' attitudes, not the good guys.
American Airlines used to provide LARGE steak knives for the Filet Mignon served in First Class.
In fact, if you will remember, the banning of smoking on planes is a recent development also. Just since the 70's.
I just can't see any difference in me carrying concealed on a plane to Miami as me sitting in a crowded restaurant on Saturday night.
If I need to use my weapon, the same problems exist as far as hitting bystanders etc.
There certainly isn't going to be any kind of "explosive decompression". That crap only happens in the movies. Airliners have redundant flight control systems so even if you shoot a hydraulic line or wiring bundle the plane isn't going to come crashing down.
Given the number of carry permit holders vs total population, I've seen the number of 1%, maybe 2% of the popluation can carry legally anyway.
Carry that number to a flight. So if we say the same number of people carry, 1%, that means that on a normal domestic flight we can guess around 150 people depending on the airline and equipment used.
That means one, maybe 2 people would be armed. This is the same as the crowded restaurant from earlier.
Given all we know about CCW's effect on crime (read some John Lott) there is no reason we could not extrapolate the same crime inhibiting results to air travel.
From there if we take into account that this already VERY low number of concealed carriers rarely use their firearms, I'd guess you might see a firearm discharged on a flight what, once every 3 years or so?
I just don't see how carrying on a plane is ANY different than carrying anywhere else.
