CCW on Campus and possible ramifications

[BigRobT]

Why not start with allowing teachers and other school employees that qualify for a carry permit and who choose to carry, do so?? (All schools).

As for colleges, perhaps establish some minimum criteria, like a minimum GPA?? (At least something that establishes a trend of personal responsibility)

As far as drinking, I kind of like MN state law in regards to carry permits. 0.04% BAC is the maximum that a person can still legally carry a gun. That equates to one, maybe two drinks. We can carry in any place that serves alcohol, too.

I'm sure there are other caveats that could be imposed on students that carry, some already mentioned.

 

[Exmasonite]

i think the problem with allowing just the teachers to carry is the term "allowing", as in "by choice".
basically, if the decision is made to allow teachers to carry if they wish, then that is in some way charging the teacher with the students' protection. If you don't allow the students to carry, then they have to rely on the teacher to defend them. Teacher is there to teach, not defend/guard.
I'm not saying that we should arm the teachers and make it mandatory (because that would never fly anyway). i'm in favor of allowing EVERYBODY to carry (if legal, etc etc).

 

[RealGun]

(because that would never fly anyway)

Speaking of "fly", this question is not unlike the issue of arming pilots, let alone passengers. TSA choked on it, never mind what Congress mandated.

 

[Autolycus]

I think that if ccw on campus is allowed it should come with the following "restrictions to protect the gun community from the anti's should a situation arise"

1. 
   [*]If a student intends on keeping a firearm in a dorm all potential roommates must be informed ahead of time and given the opportunity to room elsewhere.
   
   [*]Any student who rooms with an armed student may NOT request or require that they disarm themselves under any circumstances as they were given proper written notification that their room and/or common area would contain firearms
   
   [*]There should be a campus arsenal which must be used to store personal firearms unless the student has a safe or other security measures for keeping the gun safe from theft and unauthorized use (this could save both the student and the college from liabilities in case the gun is stolen or misused, if they are able to show they used "reasonable care" in securing the firearms while not on their person.)
   
   [*]Students must have their CCW to carry anywhere on campus including in their dorm rooms if any part of their dorm rooms are considered a common or shared area.
   
   [*]Dorm walls must be thick enough to contain an ND, or firearms may not be stored there.
   
   [*]If a ND is reported and confirmed the student looses the right to possess guns on campus and a mandatory investigation must be conducted, people are simply in to close of quarters and it is just too much of a liability.
   
   [*]CCW permits for active students must be issued at a discounted rate
   
   [*]If a student is caught on campus with a BAC above 0.02 while carrying or handling a loaded firearm the student will be expelled, no questions asked. However now criminal charges will be filed as long as no actual crime was committed.

I know my "restrictions" may seem harsh, but when students are in such close unnaturally close quarters with one another, additional safety measures might be a good idea.

We could apply some of thsoe same rules to everyone. Your walls arent thick enough so no guns for you.

And I have to ask... what if the walls are not thick enough to contain a ND? What happens if there is no money in the budget to build a dorm with walls thick enough? And when this building is complete they may run out of room?

Why should the BAC be lower than the standard for DUI?

Do you think that eveyrone should be forced to have a safe now that bolts down? If no safe then no CCW or guns? Why not right? Its for safety so the antis dont force new laws on us like safe storage laws or restrictions on who can and cant have guns adn where they cant. Or set some standard like walls must be this thick to carry, the business cant make more than 50% of its money from alcohol, or other silly rules.

 

[Geronimo45]

You make a bullet thick enough to stop a bullet and you're writing off campus carry for good. Heck, I don't know any apartments - high-end or no - that have inner walls thick enough to stop a bullet.

I can't see any college in the country willingly tearing out hundreds of walls just so students can carry a gun. I don't think they're looking after student safety that much.

 

[Autolycus]

Geronimo45 is correct. No school is going to feasibly do that so students can carry guns.

As a sidenote I live off campus at my college. And the walls in the majority of apartments in a college town are not thick at all. A lot of the dorms will have thicker walls because they are built with cinder blocks or brick. This is just what I have seen but I suspect it is similar to buildings in other college towns.

 

[RealGun]

Overdramatizing a concern about ND and AD would mean that no one should carry. It would also mean that one too concerned is really saying "fine for me but not for thee". Finally, one says in effect that dorm residents can't be trusted as responsible gun handlers, reserving the means of controlling others. My sense is that some concern is called for, but then I am not proposing that those who are underage even have the option of keeping and carrying a gun. To me, that is a much larger question.

 

[travis87]

The only problem (its a BIG one though) is the mix of alcohol and firearms on a college campus. I agree that CCW could have prevented the VT tragedy, but I am looking at the bigger picture here.

Kids drink on the weekends, I am one of them, and throwing CCW into that mix would be a very bad idea. I have been in a few situations fueled by alcohol (none of them my fault, always a buddy or someone else, but thats beside the point) and know of several others, and having guns present would have most likely ended very badly. People make poor decisions when under the influence, people get upset easier, get into fights easier. Being able to pull out a handgun because you are drunk and pissed off at someone is not gonna end well...and it wouldn't be happening every 5 seconds, but it would happen.

I could see allowing CCW on campuses if you limited it to certain hours during the week and on the weekend or something along those lines, so that guns are not as readily available when kids are partying on the weekends, but just all out, no restriction CCW probably wouldn't be the best of ideas.

 

[RealGun]

Are you allowed to have alcohol on the actual campus? I don't think so. 'Might want to look at that first.

If going to college is really about drinking, then don't wonder why guns are prohibited.

 

[1911ShooterTJ]

The only problem (its a BIG one though) is the mix of alcohol and firearms on a college campus.

And, did you also know, for people not in college there are… bars! Alcohol and firearms are not a good idea, but non-college students are just as susceptible to this kind of situation as anyone else.

I have been in a few situations fueled by alcohol (none of them my fault, always a buddy or someone else, but thats beside the point) and know of several others, and having guns present would have most likely ended very badly. People make poor decisions when under the influence, people get upset easier, get into fights easier. Being able to pull out a handgun because you are drunk and pissed off at someone is not gonna end well...and it wouldn't be happening every 5 seconds, but it would happen.

As some have said earlier, this seems like another cry of “blood in the streets”. This could happen to ANYONE, ANYWHERE! Even "adults". I don’t think that the students going out and applying for carry permits are representative of that "heavy drinking" population. They tend to be more mature and responsible, and are obviously thinking about their security, and the responsibility that does along with it.

I could see allowing CCW on campuses if you limited it to certain hours during the week and on the weekend or something along those lines, so that guns are not as readily available when kids are partying on the weekends, but just all out, no restriction CCW probably wouldn't be the best of ideas.

Again, I hope you are ready to do this for ALL CITIZENS! College students are NOT, and I repeat, NOT any different than any other adult. The state government has decided they are able to possess a weapon, and a permit to carry one. What more do you need? They are adults like anyone else, and are held to the same standards. They have no less responsibility for having a handgun and permit just because they are “in college”.

Dorm walls must be thick enough to contain an ND, or firearms may not be stored there.

This is ludicrous. I’m sure the walls in your home are probably not thick enough to stop a ND or rare AD. A college student dumb enough to let one happen can live with the consequences, just as you would in a similar situation in your home.

If a student is caught on campus with a BAC above 0.02 while carrying or handling a loaded firearm the student will be expelled, no questions asked. However now criminal charges will be filed as long as no actual crime was committed.

Expelled!? Are you kidding? Again, handgun laws should not be different just because they are college students. They are citizens just like you! All state laws regarding carry regulations must be followed by everyone. To separate out certain demographics is just wrong. We do not need gun laws to be any more complicated! Then it will be no one over 40 can carry, because their eyesight is going bad. Or no one with this kind of neurological disease can carry, or no one at risk of alcoholism can carry, etc. It is a very slippery slope!

I do demand the same of everyone. With exception to the thickness of the walls for an ND, that is due to the extreme closeness of on campus student living quarters.

Non-college students also live in… apartments. Lets regulate them too! /Sarcasm off.

Are you allowed to have alcohol on the actual campus? I don't think so. 'Might want to look at that first.

Yes! My university allows anyone over the age of 21 to have alcohol in their dorms! They are limited to a 6-pack per person, no kegs. But it is interesting they recognize their age and ability to drink, yet deny these very same people the right to carry on campus, and their dorms!


I’m sorry I get so fired up about this, but I am a college student. I believe, if a student in going to carry with a permit, they must be willing to accept the responsibilities that go with it. They are adults, and should not be babied because they are in college. Laws do not just govern college students, once they are adults, or rather old enough to get a carry permit, the laws apply to them as they do everyone else. Alcohol, idiocy, etc. are all things that are just as applicable to any non-college student carrying a firearm. So many of us here are for concealed carry, and upholding the 2nd Amendment, yet it amazed me how many scrutinize college students as if they were any different from anyone else. Don’t they have the right to carry? The government says they do! Why should “special” laws apply to them? That is discrimination in the most blatant form.

 

[Avenger29]

I knew it. Some of you don't want to see me CCW'ing on a college campus, do you?

I don't drink, I came to college to get what we call an EDUCATION, not to party. If I was coming to party, I could have just saved the money that I spent on college and spent it on alchohol. But I didn't.

We college students who are struggling for our rights are getting sick and tired of this discrimination against us simply because we are college students. You do realize that it is people like us that are the future of shooting, don't you? But you want to deny me my rights because I am a college student and I supposedly have no responsibilty.

According to some of you, I should just "lay down my right to keep and bear arms" as that former LA Times editor said. All because "We don't need drunken frat boys shooting their professors and girlfriends just because they might be able to stop another campus shooting". At least it was clear that he was on the other side.

 

[1911ShooterTJ]

According to some of you, I should just "lay down my right to keep and bear arms" as that former LA Times editor said. All because "We don't need drunken frat boys shooting their professors and girlfriends just because they might be able to stop another campus shooting". At least it was clear that he was on the other side.

Ouch. This is PRECISELY how I feel.

I knew it. Some of you don't want to see me CCW'ing on a college campus, do you?

I don't drink, I came to college to get what we call an EDUCATION, not to party. If I was coming to party, I could have just saved the money that I spent on college and spent it on alchohol. But I didn't

We college students that are struggling for our rights are getting sick and tired of this discrimination against us simply because we are college students. You do realize that it is people like us that are the future of shooting, don't you? But you want to deny me my rights because I am a college student and I supposedly have no responsibilty.

Amen! Well said Avenger.

 

[politicalgeek]

Alcohol and CCW...it comes down to personal responsibility.

I had this conversation the other day with a friend, one of my future roomates. We are looking at apartments and several of the nice ones happen to be a 10-15 minute drive from campus, so no more walking to the bars from someones house, we would need a DD. I told her that I would rather stay sober and carry to protect myself and my roomates than drink and not carry. This friend will be one of the few I trust with the knowledge of my carrying when I get the permit. The other roomate knows I am applying, but knowing the way she drinks, I will not tell her most nights if I am.

Any argument you make towards not allowing a college student to carry can be applied over the broader CCW community. From what I have seen, for the most part, when it comes to college kids and guns, those who grew up with it will more than likely be the ones that carry. This will, by and large, be a group that has grown up with guns in the family, scouts etc and have been drilled (hopefully) on safe gun handling. Add to that the cost of a decent carry gun, carry rig and ammo and that alone will be prohibitive to most college kids. 500-600 easily starting out for classes, gun, holster etc. vs. alot of alcohol with the same money.

 

[kludge]

I got my permit about halfway through college, about 14 years ago. I carried every day. A full size S&W auto. I commuted. I do not drink. I was only made once, by a close friend who also carried (she then told me and we then went shooting together). There is no state law against it. I was unaware of any university policy against it, but I didn't ask (the thought never crossed my mind), but neither did they ever hand out any "policy books." The same school now has a policy in the online handbook. Looking back I don't know whether I would have followed the policy. Today I would disregard the policy.

At the time I though I was a bit strange for having thoughts about "madman scenarios" and would consider strategies/escape routes/seat choice.

I guess I'm not really crazy afterall. Not that I really need any justification to carry.

 

[Avenger29]

I cannot carry a hangun right now- SC law prohibits ownership and transportation to those under 21. Yet if I throw something like a Sub 2000 in my backpack, then I am only in violation of the University's policy. It is wierd.

A whole lot of people CCW in violation of the University's rules. Some keep a gun or two in their truck, while others carry a handgun on their body or in thier backpack.

And, yet, we have not had any shootings...

 

[RealGun]

I knew it. Some of you don't want to see me CCW'ing on a college campus, do you?

I don't drink, I came to college to get what we call an EDUCATION, not to party. If I was coming to party, I could have just saved the money that I spent on college and spent it on alchohol. But I didn't.

We college students who are struggling for our rights are getting sick and tired of this discrimination against us simply because we are college students. You do realize that it is people like us that are the future of shooting, don't you? But you want to deny me my rights because I am a college student and I supposedly have no responsibilty.

According to some of you, I should just "lay down my right to keep and bear arms" as that former LA Times editor said. All because "We don't need drunken frat boys shooting their professors and girlfriends just because they might be able to stop another campus shooting". At least it was clear that he was on the other side.

I think your real adversaries are parents of students and those accountable to parents. I think most others have just been trying to help with the facts of life as we know them.