Concealed Carry on Campus- Skeleton Policy

[Prince Yamato]

Lately I've been noticing many threads proclaiming how we should have concealed carry on college campuses. I think at the most basic level, we all (I'd even venture to say 100%) agree that there NEEDS to be CCW on college campuses. The next question is how? My purpose in opening this thread is to draft an outline or skeleton if you will, of University concealed carry policy. For the exercise, we THR members will compose the CCW policy for Imaginary University's (IU) incoming Freshmen class of 2010. (The US political climate is similar to today)

Background: IU is a liberal arts college comprised of 20,000 students in various majors, ranging from science, medicine, and engineering, to music, theatre, and dance. The school also boasts a large athletic program. The school has one of the most diverse populations of any university. Students come in all colors and from all corners of the world. 65% of the students live on campus Freshman- Junior years. Most students move off their senior year and grad students generally live off campus or in UNIVERSITY OPERATED graduate apartments. The school is also a HUGE party school. Alcohol is allowed on campus for students 21 and over. The fight to allow CCW on campus was grueling and the pro-gunners barely won. One of the stipulations was that a committee of 15 members, called the Arms Review (AR-15) was formed. Their job is to coordinate campus firearms policy.

You are on the board of AR-15, you must specifically address issues pertinent to firearms ownership, storage, and carry on campus. Here are the areas to address:

*General daily carry: (walking around campus)

*Guns in student residences (dorms):
-guns in undergrad residences: Carry and storage
-guns in graduate housing: Carry and storage

*Proper storage of weapons when a weapon must be removed from the person; in this scenario, let us imagine a theatre and dance major who needs to change outfits and has to remove their weapon for the purpose of rehearsal and performance. Also address how a football player will store his weapon, since he cannot bring it onto the field

*Punishment for weapons violations (what constitutes a weapons violation?)

*Self defense policy (what to do in the event of a VT-type incident)

Also, feel free to add Q&A like in Freshmen Orientation packets. Ask and answer questions in a manner consistent with those of most universities. Be thorough in your answers.

Feel free to add anything to the "policy" that I am missing.

Remember, not every student is an American, not every student speaks English fluently. Some people come from homes where guns were never allowed. Some people come from the city, some from the country.

Merely stating the second amendment is not an answer. It won't console the trustees or itchy parents. The 2A would work as a nice preamble to the university policy, however. Above all, you need to be realistic in what is allowed. So basically, the policy is mainly concerned with pistols (limited space on campus), but can be used to address shotguns and rifles as well. Forget class 3, because most students can't afford it any way, and if they could, they would probably live off campus anyway. You must take into account the idiocy of college students. Saying, "well if they're stupid and they ____ they get what they deserve".

The goal of this exercise is to have a framework that we can work with when confronting university CCW policies. Hopefully, we'll have at least 60% consistency in our answers.

Sample policies:

*All weapons must be holstered at all times
*no black powder weapons
*intentionally pointing a loaded weapon at a fellow student results in immediate expulsion.

Hopefully, this takes off.

 

[Car Knocker]

You're too close, all you see is trees. Step back, see the forest - get the Legislature to allow campus CCW - avoid this campus by campus hassle.

 

[Prince Yamato]

You're too close, all you see is trees. Step back, see the forest - get the Legislature to allow campus CCW - avoid this campus by campus hassle.

I don't think it'll be that easy in every state. My goal is to cover a basic framework that can be used to address CCW to concerned parents and students. I can guarantee you that in some states, this will be fought tooth and nail. If we can answer most questions related to it and prove that we've thought it out, I think there will be less reluctance of people to allow CCW on campus.

 

[Geronimo45]

*General daily carry: (walking around campus)

All guns must be concealed at all times - only CCW licensees may carry. Brandishing a weapon in class or some such should be grounds for discipline. Students are not allowed to carry on the campus with any blood alcohol level above zero (basically, Texas laws).

*Guns in student residences (dorms):
-guns in undergrad residences: Carry and storage
-guns in graduate housing: Carry and storage

Concealment in individual rooms is not required. The school might set up a permit system for guns in residences: everyone wishing to store a gun in their residence would need to pass a background check. If they are legally allowed to buy a gun as per Federal Law, they can store a gun on campus. Background checks should be done at the beginning of every semester, and should employ NCIS/NICS/whatever it's called to speed up the process. The permits should be shall-issue: unless the applicant is in violation of laws that wouldn't let 'em have a gun under federal law, they should be given the permit. Any number of guns may be stored under that permit - dorm room number must be on the permit, and name of the applicant. No information on type of guns/caliber.
Alcohol rules: You may drink alcohol and carry a gun in residences only. If your alcohol level passes the legal limit in your state, you may face disciplinary action. Any firearms-related incident with any BAC count above zero is grounds for expulsion.

Storage: The gun must be secured in a hard-case, locked container when the owner is not on the immediate premises and the gun is left in the room.

The container has to be of solid construction - no canvas bags. Hard plastic, metal - allowed. The container needs to be locked up. No gym bags with cable locks, or soft-sided suitcases.
Also: If the gun is not being actively carried, and alcohol is being consumed on the premises, guns should be locked away.

*Proper storage of weapons when a weapon must be removed from the person; in this scenario, let us imagine a theatre and dance major who needs to change outfits and has to remove their weapon for the purpose of rehearsal and performance. Also address how a football player will store his weapon, since he cannot bring it onto the field.

Lockboxes of some kind (as mentioned above). Students would provide their own boxes to store the gun in. The boxes would be stored... someplace safe for the duration. Preferably in a locked filing cabinet in an office.
Also: All guns placed in lockboxes (except in residences) MUST be unloaded.

 

[BsChoy]

You have to remember that most states don't allow CCW until 21 yrs of age....how many freshmen are 21? I know in the state of New York(where I am NYS University Police Officer) CCW on campus for residential students probably won't fly. They could draft something for those of age who live off campus...but we are still way to liberal a state. My University has aquired AR-15's, pre Vtech mind you, knowing that full well this could and would happen.

Thats siad this is a good idea for a thread IMHO.

 

[JamesM]

I agree with BsChoy. I think there is a slim chance that a university will openly allow students to keep firearms in their dorms. A lot of campuses only house freshman in dorms and since the majority of freshman are under 21, it might not be the best battle to pick. That said, you might get some universities to remove any specific wording from their student code of conduct prohibiting CC. I think the best approach would be to allow students to carry just like any other citizen and follow the same laws (and face the same consequences). If they play football or are in dance, they need to decide for themselves if they can adequately secure their firearm when they are not able to carry it. If they can’t, they have a choice not to participate in those activities (much like everyone else who CCs has a choice not to go into bars or to properly store their weapon if they do). I do think any place that doesn’t allow firearms should be required to have a law enforcement officer on site to check your weapon on your way in and return it to you on your way out. Also, even if firearms are still prohibited from dorms, a student can always choose off campus housing. Depending on your state, it might only be a school infraction to be caught with a firearm on campus. If so (from what I understand) the police can ask you to leave and if you comply then you should not have any legal problems. I am yet to hear of a student being expelled for CCing on campus. Public university administrators are so concerned about a lawsuit that they are to afraid for expel students who get caught cheating. I doubt they would want to open up a huge can of worms by expelling a student who is legally CCing on campus. I have attempted to contact my school administrators several times about allowing student to CC and have gotten absolutely no reply. I hope others are more successful. Nothing is more irritating that have to choose between personal safety and an education.

In the mean time: concealed is concealed.

 

[Prince Yamato]

Here's something to think about in the dorms. What if your roommate is a felon or has a drug charge? Would that violate federal law putting them in immediate access of a weapon?

On one hand students should have the right to privacy, on the other hand, it could result in unintentional violation of federal law. I think a dorm resident would have to disclose the fact that they CCW to the university. So:

Prior to enrollment the student must state whether or not they intend to store firearms in their dorm room. The student's information will remain private in accordance with (state? federal?) law and is only used to determine rooming arrangement.

This way, it is the UNIVERSITY's fault if your felon roommate steals your gun (provided you kept it locked in accordance with University policy).


To add:

I think certain states (Texas, New Mexico, Arizona) will probably get the ball rolling with this sometime in the near future. When this happens, I think we need to be ready for it and prepared with some sort of framework in mind. If WE don't establish the framework, a campus committee will and they'll probably put all sorts of goofball restrictions on it. Let's say though, that the CCW passes without any fuss. There is still probably going to be an incident that will bring it up for debate again. Basically, I'm trying to seal any holes that we could have overlooked.

 

[mdao]

I don't think it'll be that easy in every state. My goal is to cover a basic framework that can be used to address CCW to concerned parents and students. I can guarantee you that in some states, this will be fought tooth and nail. If we can answer most questions related to it and prove that we've thought it out, I think there will be less reluctance of people to allow CCW on campus.

It'll be fought tooth and nail in every state and I don't see it passing in many of them. The only state that has campus CCW is Utah and the university system fought hard then too.

With that said, the big issues in an on campus environment are alcohol usage, theft, and general college age student stupidity around guns. Any rule must be tailored around those issues.

General daily carry: (walking around campus)

Any student with a valid permit can carry concealed. No open carry.

Guns in undergrad residences: Carry and storage

Carry: Pistols must be concealed at all times, unless in a dorm room where the renters allow otherwise. In this case, pistols must always be in the immediate control of the owner at all times. The only exception is for storage in a lockable hardshell case chained to the bed when sleeping. BAC allowable when carrying is 0.00.

Storage: A single carried pistol and no rifles per student can be kept in dorm rooms for students with valid CHLs. Storage for one pistol and one rifle should be available to all students in a central on-campus location.

Guns in graduate housing: Carry and storage

Carry and storage: No rules beyond municipality laws.

Proper storage of weapons when a weapon must be removed from the person

Pistols can be stored in central location available to all students.

Punishment for weapons violations (what constitutes a weapons violation?

Conviction on any weapons related felonies is instant expulsion.

Improper storage results in suspension of carry privilege for the semester.

 

[Oana]

Not to throw a wrench into the proceedings - but in real life, remember that there are many state and junior colleges that don't require (or even have available) on-campus housing. For those, my opinion is - no restrictions, period, beyond any current state laws. That being said, I'll stick with the given case scenario.

Prince Yamato said:

Prior to enrollment the student must state whether or not they intend to store firearms in their dorm room. The student's information will remain private in accordance with (state? federal?) law and is only used to determine rooming arrangement.

This way, it is the UNIVERSITY's fault if your felon roommate steals your gun (provided you kept it locked in accordance with University policy).

Turning the tables. I like it. I'd suggest separate dorms. One would be for anyone with a prior criminal record (can't own a gun) and people who don't like guns, and one would be for gun owners and those who don't mind. That wouldn't be safe, but I'd love to propose it just to see the antis get upset...then watch as it dawned on them.

*Proper storage of weapons when a weapon must be removed from the person; in this scenario, let us imagine a theatre and dance major who needs to change outfits and has to remove their weapon for the purpose of rehearsal and performance. Also address how a football player will store his weapon, since he cannot bring it onto the field

Provide proper safes and storage facilities in all areas where this would be an issue - backstage rooms, lockers, etc. Require the student to place the firearm & ammo in a locked box to which only they have the key and have somewhere they could store these boxes - be it check-in or assigned lockers. Lockers could get iffy, since keys can be duplicated and combinations can be left unchanged from semester to semester. Someone suggested chaining the cases to a sturdy rack, I think.

*Self defense policy (what to do in the event of a VT-type incident)

Should be the same as state self defense policies, generally. VT-type situation, have training for armed (and unarmed) teachers and faculty, with "what to do's" for each.

Remember, not every student is an American, not every student speaks English fluently.

Foreign students should be allowed to possess/carry as state law allows.

Anyone living off-campus should have no further restrictions (beyond carrying concealed on campus, having a CCW, and properly storing the firearm when changing, playing sports, etc.) on carry/possession.

If I were a member of a committee, I would also recommend that the student groups form shooting & safety clubs/classes and informational events. (I wouldn't trust the college to hold an accurate informational Q&A.) And I would also recommend that the college not restrict these events & clubs. ("OK, you can carry on campus...but I better not hear anyone talking about firearms! That's THREATENING!"

 

[sevesteen]

General Daily Carry: Concealed only, only with valid CHL. Some sort of minor but annoying penalty if your gun is noticeable to an ordinary person, repeated violations will lose campus carry privilege.

Guns in residences: Roommates must agree. Roommates may be shuffled to accommodate. If you will have a gun in a residence, you must have a locking case or similar, attached so the case cannot be easily carried off. Unattended guns must be locked. "Shall issue" permit for 2 guns per resident in dorms, "may issue" for more. More allowed in apartment-type housing. All laws must be followed. Guns stored on campus will be registered with the college, but by general description, not by serial number. Residents may share storage. Provision will be made to attach lock boxes without damage penalty.

If you will be carrying a gun, you are responsible for security. Guns must always remain attended by an appropriate person or secured. Typical lockers with individual locks are adequate, but ideally attachment points for cable locks will be provided. Guns must not be left in sight in lockers.
This policy may be adjusted if there are significant problems with firearms theft.

Maximum BAC while carrying in public will be .02.

Firearms violations: Carrying while impared, any threats or intimidation where the firearm is a factor, any violence other than self-defense wile the gun is present will be grounds for expulsion, and criminal charges filed where appropriate. Harassment or baiting of gun owners will not be tolerated.

Discharge of firearms is prohibited unless on an authorized range. Negligent discharges will result in loss of firearms privileges, may result in expulsion. Affirmative defense for defensive discharge of a firearm. Students will be briefed that except for immediate threats to life or serious bodily injury, they will not intervene while armed.

Conviction of drug or violent offenses in the last 10 years will disqualify from possessing guns on campus. Significant violence on campus proven by a preponderance of the evidence in a campus disciplinary procedure will disqualify, even if a criminal conviction does not result.

 

[Oana]

JamesM:

Also, even if firearms are still prohibited from dorms, a student can always choose off campus housing.

Not always. Many universities have regs requiring students to live on campus for at least the first year, sometimes longer.

 

[Majic]

YOu seemed to have covered a lot of the bases except actual classroom time. What happens to the firearm when you are in class?

 

[Prince Yamato]

What happens to the firearm when you are in class?

I would say for lectures, carry as normal. For active classes, a lock box and in a locker when available.

I think a lock box, while still able to be stolen, at least denies immediate access to a firearm by a criminal.

So, if your firearm has to come off (ie, you're in a dance class or a theatre production where you need to roll around a great deal) and a locker is not available, it should be stored in a lock box in your backpack.

It's obvious that when a firearm is out of your direct possession, there is always the possibility that someone could take it, however, I think it's not a stolen firearm that is the immediate problem, but one that is operational.

"What happens when little Borishnakov's Glock is stolen when he takes it off for Dance 688?"

Boris, will keep it in a lock box in his back pack. No immediate access, no immediate danger... which brings up another point.

A STOLEN firearm should be reported to campus security ASAP.

These responses are good. Keep 'em coming folks. I have a feeling that we're probably all pretty much on the same page. I don't expect immediate CCW on campus. I'm sure it will take quite some time. The idea is though, when a real-life forum comes up and some wise-guy says, "Guns on campus, well just how do you propose..." We'll have a full fledged plan. Which also reminds me, keep thinking of other questions people could ask. Play devil's advocate. Ask questions you would dread having to answer.

Turning the tables. I like it. I'd suggest separate dorms. One would be for anyone with a prior criminal record (can't own a gun) and people who don't like guns, and one would be for gun owners and those who don't mind. That wouldn't be safe, but I'd love to propose it just to see the antis get upset...then watch as it dawned on them.

There's actually nothing wrong with that idea. In fact, I think offering people a choice would be fine.

Q: "What if I do not want my child to room with someone who owns/carries a firearm?"

A: The university provides firearms free accommodations for students who wish to remain unarmed. (It's late, so I can't make this sound gun positive enough, while still not jabbing the antis).

 

[Feanaro]

This isn't ideal, I didn't try to make it so. I tried to be as strict as possible, without making CCW pointless. Any less pointless than it already would be when many students could not legally CCW, I mean.

Storage: all firearms stored in campus housing must be locked up in a non-portable container when the owner is not present. Example being a safe or cabinet. Possibly even a closet. No pistol cases, etc. Onus will be on the individual to provide storage. Storage in school locker rooms strictly prohibited, unless the pistol is stored in a secure locking case. Probably need a list of approved containers.

Students will register their intent to have firearms on their application. Background check will be performed. Only students who have passed this background check will be allowed to do so. Students will not be placed with room-mates who have not passed a background check. Safe storage will still be the responsibility of the individual.

Carry: concealed, always. Must have a valid CCW license, obviously. The responsibility will be on the individual to ensure no unauthorized users have access. Onus will be on the individual to provide proper storage, if the firearm must be removed.

Penalties: threatening anyone on campus with a firearm, physically or verbal, will result in immediate withdrawl of carry and storage rights. Any other threatening behavior will result in a warning for the first offense. For the second, as above. Conviction of any weapon related offense may be grounds for withdrawl of carry and storage rights.

Pistol must remain concealed. Habitual exposers will have CCW rights on campus revoked.

Self defense: except to prevent immediate harm to one's self or another person, no student may use lethal force. In case of a VT situation where no immediate threat is present, students will otherwise follow the standard plan(if any). No heroes.

 

[Standing Wolf]

[sarcasm] Well, yeah, but are college students' lives worth protecting? [/sarcasm]

 

[Black Adder LXX]

All of the above is good stuff.

Penalties for violated carry policies would be more severe than some listed above, as in many cases it would be in violation of some pretty serious laws; threatening/brandishing, NDs, alcohol use, etc. Revokation and expulsion is in many cases a 'no brainer' as it would be after a criminal prosecution for said offenses.

It might be simpler to articulate, "Violation of local, state or federal laws governing firearm ownership and carry will result in administrative action up to and including forfeiture of priviledges, suspension or expulsion of the student. This is in addition to applicible criminal penalties." Or some legal-ese statement like that...

The point being that firearm ownership is a serious responsibility, and the penalties for violation of applicable laws do not 'go away' just because we do not understand or are not aware or just 'don't know any better'. If these college students want to exercise their rights, they need to use the same responsiblility as the rest of us. The penalitles for violating the law on firearm issues will make expulsion seem like a slap on the wrist, and that's the way it should be.

 

[zahc]

I don't see why there has to be a policy. College students should be treated like adults, and they should be 'allowed' to carry in a manner they choose as adults. Just like any other job.

 

[Owen]

I don't think special storage facilities should be required, unless the University has money to burn. These "kids" are adults just like everyone else with a CCW. The resposibilty for proper storage lies with them.

The burden for responsible use does not lie on the University. If it did, then no Univeristy will ever allow it, no legislature will ever vote for it, etc.

The ultimate responsibility lies with the individual, which is why we carry in the first place.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

What is it that makes the campus different from the town? If a student can CCW in town, is there something in the campus air that makes him irresponsible?

 

[romma]

Why is it that Utah has no problem?? Why don't they answer that?

 

[RubenZ]

I think Fire arms in Dorms is a bad idea. For one thing, you have to trust your roommate. You have to trust his friends and their friends. Too much liability.

I think the best solution is to just allow CHL holders and THATS IT.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I think Fire arms in Dorms is a bad idea. For one thing, you have to trust your roommate. You have to trust his friends and their friends. Too much liability.

Lots of students live off campus -- and so far as I know, there aren't a slew of shootings in those off-campus quarters (and if there were, the mainstream media would be trumpeting it to the sky.) There are no problems with guns in off-campus housing.

So I repeat, what is it about the campus air that causes previously responsible people to indulge in irresponsible and dangerous behavior when they come on campus?

 

[bogie]

What needs to happen is for someone who has been legally disarmed via a gun free zone, and then somehow victimized (or their next of kin...), to sue the bejeezus out of said zone.

The risk management types think that "guns go off." Period. They also figure that a "no guns" sign has no inherent risks.

 

[Feanaro]

I don't see why there has to be a policy. College students should be treated like adults, and they should be 'allowed' to carry in a manner they choose as adults. Just like any other job.

I agree with you. But don't make perfect the enemy of good. Incremental victories are a surer way to freedom than that one "big breakthrough" which will never happen. Once everyone is shown that, yes, adults can carry weapons on campus without murdering each other, we can push for a more ideal situation.

 

[Majic]

So, if your firearm has to come off (ie, you're in a dance class or a theatre production where you need to roll around a great deal) and a locker is not available, it should be stored in a lock box in your backpack.

You then create a supermarket for the thief. They just cruise the classes where people would have to disarm and snatch any backpack that contains a box. Not a very good security method.
Also who pays for all of this? Secure lockers, background checks, and extra training for campus security all cost money and who is to absorb this expense? The carriers by adding an extra fee to them or the entire campus even though you have some who will have no part in this adventure? Don't expect the states to fund the project.