CCW stops Michigan bank robbery

[jakemccoy]

Did you miss the part about me saying I didn't make the rules?

An anti-gun prosecutor merely needs to prosecute on a strict interpretation of the law.

Again, it's a heads up. Impersonating an officer is a felony in some states. It's up to you if you want to be sloppy and take the risk. If you walk around thinking prosecutors are your friends, I wish you all the luck.

In California, I'd say, "I'm a citizen authorized under the laws of California to make a citizen's arrest. Sit still, NOW!"

Your mileage in your state may vary.

 

[camslam]

I hear what you are saying and I agree with you for the most part. I wouldn't ever proclaim myself as law enforcement, but if the perp asked if I was, I would say something to allow him to continue thinking I was.

I don't believe I would say I am a citizen making a citizen's arrest mostly because I don't want him thinking he can start pushing the limits of the situation I am trying to control.

At that point maybe he says, "you have no authority and I am leaving, you'll have to shoot me to stop me."

Like I said, perceptions are reality, and if you can keep the perp thinking you are law enforcement and you have the AUTHORITY to detain him, I think you'll be better off.

There are numerous things you could say that would help keep his belief he was dealing with an off duty law enforcement officer without actually saying you are a cop.

 

[siglite]

So he said he was a cop. Big whoop. I would've told the guy I was President of the Galaxy if it would've kept him in that chair so I didn't have to drop the hammer.

And this gem...

Canton Police Detective Sgt. Rick Pomorski credited the customer for his quick actions - but noted that police prefer citizens to serve as witnesses instead of taking matters into their own hands in dangerous situations.

"We never condone that civilians take action when there's a propensity for violence and what could happen," Pomorski said. "We prefer they maintain their distance. That said, we're thankful for the way it turned out. He did a wonderful job securing the scene until we got there."

Hey Sgt. Pomorsky. I have news for you. Unless you're in violation of Posse Comitatus, you are a civilian too. So maybe you should keep your distance and be a good witness.

 

[scrat]

Awesome i would have loved to have been there. I would have laughed my ass off at that guy once he got pwned.

 

[jakemccoy]

So he said he was a cop. Big whoop. I would've told the guy I was President of the Galaxy if it would've kept him in that chair so I didn't have to drop the hammer.

Actually, telling him you were President of the Galaxy would have been better from a legal perspective.

Again, impersonating a police officer is a felony in some states. That's a big whoop if you care about keeping your rights. If you really don't care outside of the Internet and in real life, then take another chance and get a fake police badge while you're at it.

 

[justin 561]

Steep chance to take with the ability to build pipe bombs easily. He could have gotten the whole bank killed.

 

[Gunnerpalace]

OK everybody, if you have a CCW and see a crime run away and hide don't help anybody and be a good witness. I'm done in this topic.

 

[Soybomb]

It seems like that a person would and should tell someone that just threatened to kill them in some nasty way (say blowing them up) that they are in fact the second coming of Mr. Jesus if thats what it takes to keep the situation from going further.

 

[camslam]

Steep chance to take with the ability to build pipe bombs easily. He could have gotten the whole bank killed.

Justin: I attempted to address this earlier in this thread saying:

I hate to point out one more obvious observation regarding bank robbers, but:

Is the line, "give me the money, I have a bomb", not the absolute stupidest way to rob a bank.

Just for fun I would probably tell him go ahead and blow the place up jack***. You'll be going with the rest of us.

Doesn't that really kind of spit in the face of common sense to rob a bank for a few thousand dollars but blow yourself up in the process?

When was the last time you actually heard of a bank robber with an actual bomb that detonated it?

I hate to say it again, but this is really a non-issue if you ask me. Bank robbers want to spend the money they steal, they aren't looking to die. Also that would have to be one heck of a potent pipe bomb to take out the whole bank. It is possible to construct one that size, but highly, highly unlikely, and even less practical.

I have often thought as I am in the bank what I would do if a robbery went down and the bomb scenario is more funny than likely if you ask me. It comes down to people being stuck in the mindset of, "Oh no, he has a bomb, I could die".

 

[siglite]

Actually, telling him you were President of the Galaxy would have been better from a legal perspective.

I think you missed the point. Good luck getting a conviction on that "impersonating an officer" thing. Good luck even getting a DA to charge him.

 

[Firethorn]

I agree Siglite, the chances of charges are minimal.

As for the bomb thing, it's not as stupid as you might think. For years bank workers have been trained to simply hand over the cash if threatened. In some areas a simple 'Hand over the money or else' will result in bills being handed over.

There is normally no need for violence, or even the capacity to commit violence as long as there aren't any security guards/police present.

It's the same idea as we had with hostage takers back before 9/11 - just follow along and you're less likely to be hurt/killed.

 

[jakemccoy]

Nobody here is going to impersonate a police officer in any circumstance IF they already know that doing so is a felony in their state. However, the cool thing about the Internet is that we can act more bold then we really are. Carry on.

 

[camslam]

Jake:

Have you had the privilege of being arrested and charged with impersonating a police officer? It seems you are pretty sensitive about this subject given the number of posts you have made regarding it.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time about this, but seriously, talk about beating the same dead horse. We get it, you could POSSIBLY be charged with impersonating an officer. In this exact situation, I think it is around a 1 in 10,000 chance you might get charged, but I think we have established this is quite a bit different than pulling people over, stopping them on the street, knocking on their doors, etc... implying that you are an officer.

I'm with Gunner on this one, I'm out.

 

[jakemccoy]

To those who aren't so emotional,

The Colorado church lady is the last good example I have that can withstand criticism when I give presentations. If anybody has any other examples that escape my mind, that would be great.

Regards,
-Jake

 

[camslam]

Jake: Sorry for getting emotional and not understanding your passion for making sure people don't impersonate a law officer.

To your point, I'm pretty sure that just about everyone on THR and most people raised here in the good old U.S. of A. know that your aren't supposed to impersonate an officer. Some may not know the penalties for doing so, but let's give a tiny bit of credit to those that have brains functioning, in particular gun owners.

In regards to the question in your last post, what kind of examples are you looking for, and in regards to what subject, and for what kind of presentations??? I'm lost, but still emotional.

 

[jakemccoy]

Camslam,

As I indicated, I was talking to others, but thank you for your attention. Have a nice day.

-Jake

 

[camslam]

Works for me.

 

[siglite]

Good lord Jake. You have to go as far as to nitpick the guy "impersonating an officer" when faced with a freakin' bomb. I mean... seriously. What's your armchair quarterback rating?

I don't care what he told the guy. I can't for the life of me figure out why you're taking such an issue with it. As someone else said, it's not like he's got blue lights on his car, and making traffic stops. He lied to the guy to keep him in that chair.

Let me ask you something. If you were the prosecuting attorney, would you charge the guy with impersonating an officer? Also, what percentage of prosecuting attorneys out there do you think would charge this guy? I'm quite curious.

Perhaps you're concerned that a guy stopping a bomber/bank-robber (remember, no one knew for sure if the guy had a bomb or not. Says he does, assume he does.) reflects poorly on CCW folks because he told a lie to keep from having to splatter the guy all over a stack of loan applications?

 

[jakemccoy]

It's basically impossible to have discussions around here, unless you're of one mindset. It's unfortunate.

 

[siglite]

I'm confused jake. What are you trying to say?

I mean, if your point is that in general, it's a bad idea to impersonate a cop, I think we all got that about two pages ago. I certainly get it. Where else are you trying to go? Are you condemning this guy for his words?

I must be lost. I'm not gettin' it.

 

[jakemccoy]

I'm looking for an intellectual discussion about this case, not "Yeeehaw, he did good; everybody who has a criticism, shut up."

From the beginning of this thread, anybody who implies this guy is anything other than superman gets ridiculed or called a MMQB or whatever. That's too bad. Maybe this is just a "Yeehaw" thread, and I'm the one out of place.

We have a real CCW moment, and people are afraid to dig in and discuss. We can now all go back to discussing hypotheticals that people imagined while shooting they're fake stationary targets.

 

[siglite]

So, you are armchair quarterbacking a guy faced with a bomb. A guy that got up that morning planning to just do a simple bank transaction. You can call it "intellectual discussion" if you like, but that's what you're doing. Armchair quarterbacking and criticizing the actions of a guy that, in the moment, may have been stopping a mass casualty bombing.

Yeah, impersonating a cop is a bad idea. But to criticize this guy for doing anything he did is obviously going to look a little ... odd considering you're on a gun forum jam packed with CCW folks. Folks who are not inclined to let criminals have their way under threat of life and limb of innocent folks.

So yeah, I'm just fine with calling this guy a "superman." I suppose if you want to call him a criminal it might be prudent to be prepared to back your position.

So sure. Let me drink a case of budweiser, fire my 12ga in the air, spit off the porch, and yell YeeeeeHaaaaaaaaw.

 

[jakemccoy]

Heck yes, I'm armchair quarterbacking, criticizing, dissecting and analyzing a REAL CCW situation.

Others may prefer to armchair quarterback fake situations with their fake targets. Still others don't think at all. Also, do you really think I care if I look odd here, seriously?

 

[siglite]

Well have at it then. Brady may have some suggestions on how to do it effectively, with the appropriate level of emotion and lack of reason.

Because, clearly this guy did it wrong.

Probably because he was actually there. But we have the luxury of being able to sit in our armchairs and tell him he shouldn't have impersonated an officer. And darnit, he should've performed a tactical roll. While whistling flight of the valkyrie.

I think your own words seem appropriate...

the cool thing about the Internet is that we can act more bold then we really are.

 

[jakemccoy]

That made no sense...lol

You're making up stuff and arguing with yourself...weird.

I vote lock the thread.