• You are using the old Black Responsive theme. We have installed a new dark theme for you, called UI.X. This will work better with the new upgrade of our software. You can select it at the bottom of any page.

Chamber Loaded? Or NOT ? What do YOU do ?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Loaded chamber, ALWAYS.

The odds are that if I need to shoot somebody, they're not going to cooperate with my requests to desist until I can chamber a round.

I don't want to try to chamber a round and wrestle with somebody or try to keep them from stabbing me at the same time. I just want to shoot them. I'm a "simple solutions to simple problems" kind of guy.

I wouldn't carry a firearm that's not safe to carry with a loaded chamber.
 
Is there any way to break the transfer bar?
Yes, there is. But transfer bars are true Fail Safe systems -- when the bar is broken, the gun cannot fire.

The hammer face in such system is made like an upside down L. The arm of the L hits the frame above the firing pin and the "belly" of the hammer is held off the firing pin.

When the trigger is pulled, the transfer bar moves up and covers the end of the firing pin, and the hammer "belly" hits the transfer bar, which transfers the impact to the firing pin.

If the transfer bar is broken, it can't function and the gun can't fire.
 
all of the worry about safeties is really kind of silly. If you practice proper gun habits, you could carry a 1911 cocked and unlocked safely.

Among the rules are Always use proper gun leather and Never put your finger into the trigger guard until you are ready to fire.
 
Curious, for all those who carry with an empty chamber.

If you carried a revolver, would you carry with the hammer down on an empty chamber, or would your first trigger pull land the hammer on an empty chamber?

jm
 
The firing pin lock systems on some M1911s sold today are another example -- even though the hammer is held off the firing pin, dropping the gun on the muzzle might generate enough force for the firing pin to overcome the firing pin spring and touch the hammer.

I believe you meant to say, "primer," in case anyone was confused.

.
 
Curious, for all those who carry with an empty chamber.

If you carried a revolver, would you carry with the hammer down on an empty chamber, or would your first trigger pull land the hammer on an empty chamber?
I often wonder the same thing about the people who profess that Israeli Carry's the thing to do.
 
I am one rack away with the M&P .45 ACP Cylinder empty. I dont think any number of idiot moves or drops will cause the gun to fire on that empty.

I enjoy shooting on the range, but when the round is "UP" and the gun is hot, the heart rate goes up a bit no matter how comfortable I am with the thing. Ice blooded Im not.

It would probably get me dead if a BG pull one already loaded. If he knows Ive got one somewhere on me.
 
Ruger P90 with one in the pipe, hammer down, safety on. This is the proper way to carry this pistol, as the safety is a decocker. Carrying hammer down, safety off would also be acceptable, although in this condition the gun could possibly fire if dropped on the hammer.
 
I am one rack away with the M&P .45 ACP Cylinder empty. I dont think any number of idiot moves or drops will cause the gun to fire on that empty.

You mean, CHAMBER. Yes, there is a distinct and important difference.

If you're talking keeping your range guns chamber empty at the range until you're ready to shoot, that's one thing, as the target doesn't care how long it takes you to make that first shot.

Carrying your DEFENSIVE handgun chamber empty is quite another, as that target WILL care how fast you can get that all important first shot off.

.
 
Right, thank you for the correction.

I will evaluate my weapons safety features and see where I may avoid trouble with one in the chamber.
 
My opinion is that carrying with the chamber empty is a poor excuse for firearm safety. Everyone that I know that does such a thing tends to either have poor weapon handling skills, or they are overzealous/don't understand firearm safety. The same people often want a stiff trigger much like a DA trigger on a revolver because they are "safer".

I have been in the closest thing to a actual shootout, aka simunition training. I went through a sudden assault scenario and had I left my chamber empty I would have wasted seconds extra (when it already took me a few seconds to respond to the threat due to the shock of the sudden assault). Not to mention your fine motor skills go out the window when your in the fight or flight response. I would not trust myself to be able to rack the slide and get a round chambered without the potential to cause a jam. All it would take is riding the slide a little bit to long and you might cause a jam.

I wish everyone could go through the experience I did, because I think after you saw a video of your delayed reaction, fumbling with the gun to get a round in the chamber, then shooting, you might see how much better it would be to carry one in the pipe. Modern guns are safe with one in the chamber. Even more so when you use a holster which will make it hard to put your booger hook on the bang switch, (thus making it even safer for you if you have poor weapon safety skills).

I might get some slack for saying this but here it goes. I think that many people that keep their guns unloaded for “safety” are inherently unsafe with firearms. I have met too many people that grab their guns and handle them poorly since “they know they are safe” because they don’t ever put ammo in them unless they are on the range. They seem to rely on the fact they don’t remember putting ammo in the chamber as a substitution to checking the chamber to see if its loaded. Such people often rely on heavy trigger pulls, installation of manual safeties on guns that never came with them, long trigger pulls, and every other doodad to make the gun “less capable of firing if the trigger is pulled”. I have news for such people, installing a manual safety, a push trigger safety, never loading one in the chamber unless your on the range, keeping the ammo in a different room, etc to your glock is not going to make it any safer if you have poor safety then just handling a unmodified one properly.

You can find someone who has NDed any firearm out there regardless of how many safeties are on the gun. It always comes down to someone pulling the trigger when there is a round in the chamber.
 
This conversation has a lot of great points being made. The fact remains though, that I do not feel comfortable carrying my Glock with a round in the chamber. So you say that I should not own a gun, I have no business carrying, well that is your opinion. If I had a 1911, I would probably carry with one in the chamber. Having a Glock, I don't want to take that risk. Isn't it my decision anyway?
 
Maybe you guys who want to carry on an empty chamber should buy a Jo Lo Ar. They're Spanish pistols modified so you can work the slide one handed. There is a similar Chinese pistol but I forgot the name of it.
 
If I ever need to use my pistol, I will most likely need it RIGHT NOW! I carry with a round in the chamber and a full magazine. I use a good quality holster. I have never had my pistol fall out. I practice drawing my pistol regularly. I practice good muzzle and trigger control. I have practiced weak hand draws and one handed racking the slide. It's not easy in practice, and in a high stress life threatening situation it won't be any easier.

You are, of course, entitled to do as you think best, but I believe that fraction of a second it takes to rack the slide might cost you dearly.
 
Here's a pistol for the empty chamber guys, one trigger to rack the slide, the other to fire it.... The m-77B. Good luck with that.
M-77B-450px.jpg
 
condition one, unless it's in the safe. that's for a Glock 35 house gun, a Springfield Armory TRP carry/housegun, and a Springfield XD subcompact carry gun. I assume I will only have one hand available to respond to a deadly threat (two is one, one is none. Navy Engineering training. and yes, I do carry a backup gun).
 
I carry a S&W 686 Plus, 2.5" barrel in Spring, summer and fall. Always loaded-all chambers, inside the pocket. In winter, I often carry a Sig P-226 9mm in the front pocket and go unloaded chamber. It's grip sticks proud of the pocket, so I use a polar fleece pull-over to hide the thing. Next year, though, I think I'll go chamber loaded on the Sig. From surveillance camera footage so prevalent these days (scary thought...), it's very obvious that you often simply have no time other than to immediately bear the weapon and fire.

Just my thoughts and what works for me. Each person must carry within his or her own comfort zone. Like others have written here, use only top quality, proven and reliable equipment.
 
This conversation has a lot of great points being made. The fact remains though, that I do not feel comfortable carrying my Glock with a round in the chamber. So you say that I should not own a gun, I have no business carrying, well that is your opinion. If I had a 1911, I would probably carry with one in the chamber. Having a Glock, I don't want to take that risk. Isn't it my decision anyway?

When have you heard of a glock firing when the trigger wasn't pulled? The training officers I work with have trained thousands of people with the glock weapon system, and they have never had someone ND other when they pulled the trigger themselves without checking the chamber first. I have never read of a story of a glock just going off.

On the glock weapon system the firing pin is roughly half cocked, and there is a firing pin block that only is removed once the trigger is pulled. Installing a manual safety isn't going to do anything but make it impossible to pull the trigger. That doesn't change how you should handle the gun, or really make it any safer in my opinion. When the gun is properly holstered the manual safety is keeping the trigger protected from being pulled, which shouldn't be an issue since you shouldn't be able to have something pull the trigger when it is in a holster. There is already a firing pin block that will keep the gun from firing if there is some sort of failure mechanically. In the event of a mechanical failure a manual safety isn't going to keep the gun from firing either.

Essentially all the manual conversion is a extra sort of failsafe that might keep you from NDing if you have poor weapon handling. If you grab your gun and point it around when its loaded (and never bother to clear it), put your finger on the trigger, then the safety will help prevent you from pulling the trigger. However your relying on a device to keep you safe, instead of good gun handling skills (and clearing the gun every time you pick it up) is not the answer. People could and would ND a gun with 10 manual safeties. Which is why I am a advocate of clearing the weapon every time you pick it up. You should also not rely on the safety to properly keep the trigger from being pulled, aka don't handle the gun in a manner that puts things inside the trigger guard. People should not consider any gun "safe" when the safety is on as well. Handle any gun with the same care you would give a cocked 1911 with a light short trigger pull that has no manual safety, and you will be fine.

Now some guns that lack internal safeties such as firing pin blocks, have hammers that have to be fully cocked inorder to fire, and light short trigger pulls should have a manual safety in my opinion. Especially in cases where gun designs don't take the fact the gun could get tossed around into consideration (or firearm designs that use the manual safety to engage/disengage internal failsafes other just making a trigger pull impossible). Mechanical failures have happened but with most modern guns with a firing pin block its going to be near impossible for the gun to go off.
 
You make some good points, but my argument is based on peace of mind. In the off chance that in a struggle I grab the gun wrong from my IWB holster and pull the trigger, I will carry with an empty chamber.

Now adding a manual safety would allow me to feel comfortable with a round in the chamber. No matter what your argument, those only take a fraction of a second to disable and, with practice, become second nature.

Again, it is my opinion and my choice, though I do respect everyone's input here.
 
Disengaging a manual safety takes no time at all, since it is done while doing other things.

I train to bring my .45 up with thumbs overlapping on the safety, finger indexed beside the trigger guard. As the sights come on, I simply close my hand, disengaging the safety lock as the trigger finger presses the trigger.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top