Do you ever notice.........?

[Jeff]

Okay, imagine Andy Rooney's voice for the following rant:

"Do you ever notice that when you're looking for the weights of handguns online, all you can find are the empty weights? Why do I want to know what the weight of an empty firearm is? Do people go hunting with unloaded guns?

"Do people carry unloaded handguns for self-defense? In fact, sometimes they tell you the weight of the gun without the magazine. Do people carry handguns without the magazines in them?"

Okay, Andy Rooney voice off. Seriously, though. Why do they always have the weight of the gun unloaded or without the mag? I mean, don't people want to know the weight of a handgun that will be loaded because they will be carrying it loaded?

It just seems so incredibly stupid.

I'm trying to compare the weights between my CZ P-01 and H&K USP .45 full size for backpacking. The gun will be fully loaded (10 rd mag for the USP and 13 or 14 rd mag for the P-01).

I did find the weight of the fully loaded P-01. It is supposedly 33 oz. Any idea what the USP is?

 

[Straight Shooter]

I would think the reason is that cartridges of the same caliber come in different weights.

Would you list a full magazine for a .45 using 185gr, 200gr or 230gr?

 

[bigfatdave]

I would think the reason is that cartridges of the same caliber come in different weights.

Agreed ... weigh your own carry rounds, most pistol magazines are pretty light, so make a guess or weigh a similarly constructed one.

 

[Kind of Blued]

It doesn't really bother me.

What does bother me is that NOBODY provides a measurement for the length of the grip, from the bottom of the trigger guard to the bottom of the frontstrap.

It's probably the most important measurement on a handgun for me.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

What does bother me is that NOBODY provides a measurement for the length of the grip, from the bottom of the trigger guard to the bottom of the frontstrap.

Because of the varying shapes of frontstraps and trigger guards giving lack of a clear starting and ending point, as well as some guns having short frontstraps and using the magazine floorplate to fill up the space, that is somewhat difficult to do.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

I would think the reason is that cartridges of the same caliber come in different weights.

Would you list a full magazine for a .45 using 185gr, 200gr or 230gr?

Agreed. This is similar to measuring the weight of a car - do you do it with an empty or full fuel tank? The weight of the fuel can be 60-100 lbs. or even more depending on the tank capacity.

 

[Jeff]

I would think the reason is that cartridges of the same caliber come in different weights.

Would you list a full magazine for a .45 using 185gr, 200gr or 230gr?

I don't buy it. So let's use the .45acp as an example. When it comes to handguns, the USP is perhaps the greatest weight differential between varying loads one might have in a handgun, with the difference in weight grains per bullet and the number of bullets in the magazine (10 or 12 for a H&K USP).

So the greatest difference in bullet weight would probably be 45 grains. 45 X 10 rounds (using the ban-era mags) = 450 total grains. That's equal to 6% of 1 lb, or 1 ounce.

So why can't someone just list the weight with the largest bullets loaded in the gun? Furthermore, these heaviest bullets are the most common ones. Most people shoot full size, round nose ammo.

Someone should list the weights of these guns loaded with the full size, non-hollow point ammo. It does no good to list the weight of an empty gun. It's foolish.

Agreed. This is similar to measuring the weight of a car - do you do it with an empty or full fuel tank?

Not an accurate analogy. Gas is constantly being consumed as the equipment is being used. Ammo is not being used if one is carrying it for self-defense or hunting purposes. Not only that, even if the gun is being shot regularly, it becomes lighter. One only needs to know the maximum weight of a fully loaded gun for all day carry purposes. A car's overall weight is considered for performance information.

 

[Hungry Seagull]

I will have to dig out the kitchen scale and weight my M&P 45 ACP fully loaded with the spare clip also fully loaded with a total of 20 of the bullets in 230 grain riding on the hip.

It's a heavier than empty weight (DUH...) but not too heavy. The first week of wearing it on belt was exhausting. But after a month, I dont notice it anymore.

 

[SCKimberFan]

did find the weight of the fully loaded P-01. It is supposedly 33 oz. Any idea what the USP is?

You are kidding right? Go find a scale and weigh it.

This is similar to measuring the weight of a car - do you do it with an empty or full fuel tank? The weight of the fuel can be 60-100 lbs. or even more depending on the tank capacity.

Cars and trucks are weighed assuming the tank is full - to take variations of how much fuel is in the tank out of the equation.

 

[chuwee81]

i'd gave to agree with post #2. And also it's in the marketing i guess. gun owners would probably carry the gun on person as opposed to some who would probably just keep it in the nightstand.

Also ammo comes in different materials as well. We got steel cased, brass cased and aluminum cased ammo. I had some blazer brass and aluminum and you can feel the difference (not much) when you load up 16 rds of them (9mm).

And also, some mags can hold 10, some 15, some 16, etc. So it would be impractical to list all of these things. Like mentioned before, shooters can weigh their own carry ammo and how many rounds they want to put in their gun.

Closer analogy would be in the paintball world. The latest and greatest would boast how light their new high end guns are (pushing the limit to less than 2 lbs - WITHOUT batteries), and of course, they don't put how much it weigh with the tank, hopper, and the paintballs. It is understood that all these accesories will add up significantly and if you're getting the gun, then the weight of the gun itself is the most important aspect of it.

 

[Jeff]

You are kidding right? Go find a scale and weigh it.

Oh ok, I'll go find a scale. Where should I look? In my backyard? My neighbor's house, next time I go over? Oh, I know, maybe the deli scale at the local supermarket. Yeah, they'll get a kick out of that.

Where exactly am I supposed to "find" that kind of scale?

 

[wyocarp]

Oh ok, I'll go find a scale. Where should I look? In my backyard? My neighbor's house, next time I go over? Oh, I know, maybe the deli scale at the local supermarket. Yeah, they'll get a kick out of that.

Where exactly am I supposed to "find" that kind of scale?

Find someone who reloads or most gun stores can help you out.

 

[orionengnr]

Because, as stated, the weight of a load pistol is a variable. Different mags weigh different amounts. Different cartridges? Steel case, brasss case, aluminum case? 160 grain, 185 grain, 200 grain, 230 grain (and I'm just talking .45 acp here)...multiply the difference by 7, 8, 10 or 14, and there is a substantial difference. I can weigh the mag and I can compute what x number of cartridges weigh.

This is similar to measuring the weight of a car - do you do it with an empty or full fuel tank? The weight of the fuel can be 60-100 lbs. or even more depending on the tank capacity.

Actually, a more valid analogy would be the "ready to drive" gross weight of a car. Is it carrying one 120-lb driver? Or four 250-lb passengers?
Empty weight removes all of the variables and gives an "apples-to-apples" comparison.

 

[bigfatdave]

Where exactly am I supposed to "find" that kind of scale?

Seriously?
$20 will get you a digital kitchen scale. You are the one stressing over a few ounces, get your own scale.

 

[ih]

if you don't like the answers you are given, why ask questions anyway? buy a scale and do your own research.

 

[easyg]

Well, since sharing info is what this forum is all about, here's my contribution....

Using my own digital scale at home:

Glock G22 empty without the magazine: 22.9 oz.
With magazine loaded with 15 Speer Gold Dot 155g rounds: 33.6 oz.

Taurus 905 empty: 23.1 oz.
With 5 Hornady Critical Defense 115g 9mm rounds: 25.2 oz.

S&W 637 Airweight empty: 15 oz.
With 5 Federal Hydra-Shok 110g .38 Special rounds: 17 oz.

 

[THE MACHINIST]

they cover all the bases the manufacturers ,you know some clown out there will ask for this stupid measurement, remember americans have been dumbed down.

 

[Hungry Seagull]

Smith and Wesson M&P .45 ACP Full Size vs a 12 dollar walmart kitchen food scale .... "Drumroll please"

1- Uncle Mike's Holster made for large size handgun with pocket for second magazine.

2- Two fully loaded S&W Double Stacked 10 round magazines loaded with Speer Gold DOT 230 Grain Hollow Point rounds with the silver cartridge cases... (Total of 20 rounds) One is in the gun itself with none loaded inside chamber and one magazine is in the holster's spares pocket with velcro.



Grad total comes to...

3 Pounds, 3 and 3/8th of a ounce.

assuming 16 ounces to the pound **Breaks out calculator..

51 and 3/8 ounces total. The scale has a capacity of 5 pounds.


My empty wallet with chain comes to only 13 ounces.

Now for other fun.

One Box of Speer Lawman 45 Auto 230 grain FMJ (Full Metal Jacket) Lot# 53967 50 rounds plus the plastic container and cardboard box weighs 2 pounds and 7 3/4 ounces

Here is a surprise finding.

Two Speer gold dot boxes of 20 each 230 Grain GOLD DOT Hollow Point (GDHP) Lot# 23966 (This lot is VERY hard to find.)

Plus one gold dot box of 10 with container (10 bullets removed to make 50 total in scale vs FMJ 50)

Total weight is....

2 Pounds 7 and 3/4 ounces

These 50 bullets weight the same exact, it will come down to ballistic performance at 25 feet with thought to velocity, energy and rise or fall of bullet plus penetration/expansion to further compare the two.

The only other comparison I can make is that the hollows cost me $1.46 delivered (Cabelas... something like 28.00 per 20 box plus shipping) and the FMJ 0.56 (26.00 plus tax for 50) at gander plus gas to get there and tax. each at 50 rounds compared.


I would think that the bad guy will be stopped for .56 cents just as easily as the 1.46 either way.


Finally to be fair, the handgun empty with magazine removed is only a pound and 9 ounces and 3/4 or so...

 

[Drail]

IMO the weight of a handgun is the most unimportant characteristic of all of the factors I would consider. I actually much prefer shooting a heavier gun than a light one. (and yes I have carried S&W N frames and steel 1911s all day) With a quality belt and holster weight should not be as big a deal as so many folks make it out to be. I think people making such a fuss over the weight is the main reason we have all of these polymer guns now. One of the worst features of a Glock (to me) is the fact that it is top heavy and becomes more so as the magazine is emptied. Reliability, effectiveness and function are much more important than total weight. I used to backpack a lot so I understand the weight thing as applied to all of your gear. (We used to laugh about carrying 60 or 70 lbs. of "lightweight" gear.)But I would do without other items before I would choose a gun for its weight.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Oh ok, I'll go find a scale. Where should I look? In my backyard? My neighbor's house, next time I go over? Oh, I know, maybe the deli scale at the local supermarket. Yeah, they'll get a kick out of that.

Where exactly am I supposed to "find" that kind of scale?

Drop the attitude and find a scale online. Being an ass on THR isn't going to get you your weight totals, but doing your own research might.

 

[Hungry Seagull]

Drail, the previous group I was with for half a day compared a few different handguns of different calibers. I recall holding a Beretta (Spelling?) 9mm and found it to be a heavy gun... one that should shoot well. But not one I would want to haul all day.

The Owner found my M&P to be very light. In fact, so light that he wasnt sure if it was enough gun for the ammuntion I shoot with it. No worries on that. Just no +P rounds allowed on my gun.

I think handgun weights do matter to different people. Just like my wife found my 870 to be a tad too heavy and opted to get a lighter shotgun instead. I am actually hoping that my Handgun will be light enough for the spouse to fire taking into account her ability to hold onto a weapon with her issues.

 

[SCKimberFan]

Where should I look? In my backyard?

Probably not a good spot...

My neighbor's house, next time I go over?

They just might have one...

Oh, I know, maybe the deli scale at the local supermarket.

If you know the owner...

Where exactly am I supposed to "find" that kind of scale?

Most any store that sells kitchen ware.

 

[Jeff]

Drop the attitude and find a scale online. Being an ass on THR isn't going to get you your weight totals, but doing your own research might.

Settle down Rags. I had an 'attitude' because SCKimberFan was not being friendly.



I think it's absurd that I should have to buy a stupid scale to find out how much a loaded handgun weighs.

It's not rocket science. Load mag with something-- probably the ever popular round nose ammo-- and weigh the friggin gun. Wow, that's hard!

I just think it's something the manufacturers should be doing. Giving the weight of an unloaded gun is completely worthless information.

 

[rbernie]

Where exactly am I supposed to "find" that kind of scale?

I use the one at the Post Office to weigh all sorts of things. It's part of the 'automated package' postal thingee.

Just go after-hours, and keep the pistol in a plastic bag.

Giving the weight of an unloaded gun is completely worthless information.

Then do the math; add the weight of a loaded round x the mag capacity to the unladen weight provided. It's really not hard.

I'm closing this thread due to terminal attitude problems.